*** Log file opened: 5/23/02 7:59:53 PM

[20:06] <CJ-Seeker> There was another bombing attempt today and one successful in Israel

[20:07] <BobWestbrook> yes, and that gas depot bombing attempt could have been much much worse

[20:07] <CJ-Seeker> yes It could have been

[20:07] <RetroRyan> It looks as if arafat's brigades are resonsible for the last suicide bombing.

[20:08] <BobWestbrook> uh huh

[20:08] <CJ-Seeker> It's like God protects especially on those occasions

[20:08] <BobWestbrook> yes, seems that way, huh Allyn

[20:09] <CJ-Seeker> He doesn't want Israel to jump the gun..so keeps the fire burning and soo will release the dogs

[20:10] <BobWestbrook> Yes, I get the sense also that it's almost like the Lord is hold back until just the right time

[20:10] <BobWestbrook> for example, the Gaza postponement

[20:10] <CJ-Seeker> yes..

[20:11] <BobWestbrook> which, from my view, is one of the events that we can point to and say "this is a DIRECT fulfillment of a Bible prophecy" - ie the Israel's swooping down on Gaza (Isaiah 11)

[20:11] <BobWestbrook> but it's just not the right time yet

[20:11] <CJ-Seeker> do you have it handy Bob?

[20:11] <BobWestbrook> sure do

[20:12] <BobWestbrook> First a quick context - it is talking about the modern return to the land:

[20:12] <BobWestbrook> (Isaiah 11:11 NIV) In that day the Lord will reach out his hand a second time to reclaim the remnant that is left of his people from Assyria, from Lower Egypt, from Upper Egypt, from Cush, from Elam, from Babylonia, from Hamath and from the islands of the sea.

[20:12] <CJ-Seeker> ok

[20:12] <BobWestbrook> and in that context...

[20:12] <BobWestbrook> v 14 They will swoop down on the slopes of Philistia to the west;

[20:12] <CJ-Seeker> which is about to happen

[20:12] <RetroRyan> That's Gaza

[20:12] <BobWestbrook> I looked at some other translations the other day, and the terminology was quite interesting

[20:13] <BobWestbrook> yes, that's Gaza - Philistia

[20:13] <CJ-Seeker> how so?

[20:13] <BobWestbrook> hold on a sec, let me find them, in the other room

[20:13] <CJ-Seeker> k

[20:13] <CJ-Seeker> Ryan..where do you live?

[20:13] <RetroRyan> Victoria BC Canada

[20:14] <CJ-Seeker> I see

[20:14] <CJ-Seeker> Been there a long time ago

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[20:14] <CJ-Seeker> Hi Marion

[20:14] <CJ-Seeker> Shalom

[20:14] <CJ-Seeker> Bob's getting some notes

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[20:14] <RetroRyan> It's a beautiful place - physically at least

[20:14] <CJ-Seeker> Yes

[20:15] <BobWestbrook> first, from the Jewish Publication Society Tanakh translation:

[20:15] <CJ-Seeker> ok

[20:15] <BobWestbrook> "they shall pounce on the back of Philistia to the west"

[20:15] <CJ-Seeker> oh oh Marion's in and out

[20:15] <CJ-Seeker> ok...next

[20:16] <BobWestbrook> and now the Stone Edition Tanach:

[20:16] <BobWestbrook> they will fly in unison against the Philistine to the west

[20:16] <BobWestbrook> fly!

[20:17] <CJ-Seeker> unison would mean what in this case?

[20:17] <CJ-Seeker> as one?

[20:17] <CJ-Seeker> with one mind?

[20:17] <RetroRyan> Of course, back in the old days before Christ, the Israelis could not fly

[20:17] <BobWestbrook> unison is based on the context - that the regathered Israel would be one body, not two as in Isaiah's day, but yes, by extension, that's right, Allyn

[20:17] <CJ-Seeker> fly to me means fast

[20:17] <BobWestbrook> yes

[20:18] <BobWestbrook> and it means, helicopters and F16s :)

[20:18] <CJ-Seeker> I'm sure it does that also:)

[20:19] <BobWestbrook> those nasty little blackhawks or whatever that could put the fear of God in anyone when they emerge from over the horizion :)

[20:19] <CJ-Seeker> they fly so fast, they would come and go before the bombs hit

[20:20] <BobWestbrook> So, when they postponed it, I was thinking...

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[20:20] <CJ-Seeker> Delta!!!

[20:20] <BobWestbrook> ok, Lord, you postponed it, because it's going to be part of the larger war

[20:21] <CJ-Seeker> Shalom

[20:21] <BobWestbrook> Hi Delta! :)

[20:21] <RetroRyan> Hi Eagle

[20:21] <BobWestbrook> Shalom - I could use some Shalom :)

[20:21] <EagleShield> Shalom! I had to knock and knock on that door

[20:21] <EagleShield> SHALOM!!!!!!!!

[20:21] <BobWestbrook> Marion was in for a second, then out

[20:21] <BobWestbrook> Still with us, Ryan?

[20:21] <EagleShield> It's weird

[20:21] <EagleShield> Hey Ryan

[20:21] <RetroRyan> I'm still here

[20:21] <CJ-Seeker> well then Bob..Peace be unto you my friend

[20:21] <BobWestbrook> Thanks :)

[20:22] <EagleShield> humming "Shalom Jerusalem" here

[20:31] <BobWestbrook> Lord God, you are our Savior and Sustainer, who watches over us

[20:31] <CJ-Seeker> yes Father

[20:32] <BobWestbrook> We need your constant care, because we are basically clueless most of the time - please help us

[20:32] <EagleShield> yes

[20:32] <BobWestbrook> We worship you, the Awesome, Almighty Creator

[20:32] <CJ-Seeker> very clueless

[20:32] <BobWestbrook> You are our helper, our strength

[20:32] <RetroRyan> We ask for your wisdom Lord

[20:32] <EagleShield> yes, please

[20:32] <BobWestbrook> the one who performs miracles when we are in despair

[20:33] <BobWestbrook> We thank you for your great, enduring love for us

[20:33] <CJ-Seeker> comfort us Father

[20:33] <BobWestbrook> And for Israel, as we will see in these verses

[20:33] <EagleShield> help us trust You

[20:33] <BobWestbrook> Open our hearts, anoint us, teach us, and help us to be quick to turn from sin

[20:33] <BobWestbrook> Thank you Jesus!!!1

[20:33] <BobWestbrook> Amen

[20:33] <CJ-Seeker> Amen to that

[20:33] <RetroRyan> Amen

[20:34] <EagleShield> Hallel u jah!

[20:34] <BobWestbrook> ok, Jeremiah 31

[20:34] <BobWestbrook> Let's resume at v 18

[20:35] <CJ-Seeker> ok

[20:35] <EagleShield> looking

[20:35] <BobWestbrook> 18-20 are emotion laden

[20:35] <BobWestbrook> (Jeremiah 31:18 NIV) "I have surely heard Ephraim's moaning: 'You disciplined me like an unruly calf, and I have been disciplined. Restore me, and I will return, because you are the LORD my God.

[20:35] <CJ-Seeker> got it

[20:35] <RetroRyan> sorry... had to grab my Bible

[20:36] <BobWestbrook> the discipline of the Lord - can be painful, but only for our good, because He loves us

[20:36] <CJ-Seeker> :)

[20:36] <EagleShield> Ouch

[20:36] <BobWestbrook> and what child is without discipline?

[20:36] <BobWestbrook> only the ones who turn out bad

[20:36] <BobWestbrook> So, what we have here in v 18

[20:37] <BobWestbrook> is a statement of remorse by Israel

[20:38] <BobWestbrook> (Jeremiah 31:18 NIV) "I have surely heard Ephraim's moaning: 'You disciplined me like an unruly calf, and I have been disciplined. Restore me, and I will return, because you are the LORD my God.

[20:38] <BobWestbrook> v 18 is a statement of remorse for Israel, a plea for restoration

[20:39] <BobWestbrook> we can say that is an end-times prophecy

[20:39] <BobWestbrook> Israel says "I will return"

[20:39] <EagleShield> now being end times era, Bob?

[20:39] <BobWestbrook> yes

[20:39] <BobWestbrook> (Zechariah 1:3 NIV) Therefore tell the people: This is what the LORD Almighty says: 'Return to me,' declares the LORD Almighty, 'and I will return to you,' says the LORD Almighty.

[20:40] <BobWestbrook> (Malachi 3:7 NIV) Ever since the time of your forefathers you have turned away from my decrees and have not kept them. Return to me, and I will return to you," says the LORD Almighty. "But you ask, 'How are we to return?'

[20:40] <CJ-Seeker567> Good question?

[20:40] <BobWestbrook> next verse is Israel speaking some more:

[20:40] <RetroRyan> The Lord brings Israel back home

[20:40] <EagleShield> Was thinking that I ask that question a lot, too

[20:40] <BobWestbrook> (Jeremiah 31:19 NIV) After I strayed, I repented; after I came to understand, I beat my breast. I was ashamed and humiliated because I bore the disgrace of my youth.'

[20:42] <EagleShield> Bob?

[20:42] <BobWestbrook> others realize they have strayed from God

[20:42] <CJ-Seeker567> But is the remose God Given in this case?

[20:42] <BobWestbrook> yes, it is

[20:42] <EagleShield> Could it also be relating to Israel's remorse as she was being re-birthed?

[20:43] <BobWestbrook> it is indeed about Israel's remorse - these are prophetic verses, speaking of remorse largely in the future for Israel

[20:43] <EagleShield> uh oh

[20:43] <BobWestbrook> uh oh?

[20:43] <BobWestbrook> Israel will indeed return

[20:43] <CJ-Seeker567> God knows His people all too well

[20:43] <EagleShield> if it's in the future, then is there more despair to increase for Israel as well?

[20:44] <EagleShield> ok, where is everyone?

[20:44] <CJ-Seeker567> here

[20:44] <BobWestbrook> well, only in the sense of the Lord's loving discipline, but yes, certainly, I mean, look at today, isn't all that is happening for this very purpose?

[20:44] <RetroRyan> I'm here

[20:44] <BobWestbrook> so taht they will say to Him "I will return"

[20:45] <BobWestbrook> (Hosea 14:1-2 NIV) Return, O Israel, to the LORD your God. Your sins have been your downfall! {2} Take words with you and return to the LORD. Say to him: "Forgive all our sins and receive us graciously, that we may offer the fruit of our lips.

[20:45] <EagleShield> whew, you are there

[20:45] <CJ-Seeker567> well I guess that is true..They fall away and then return..He has his spirit in them

[20:45] <EagleShield> Wow....the fruit of our lips....

[20:45] <EagleShield> praise?

[20:46] <BobWestbrook> and probably the most important verses regarding Israel's return:

[20:46] <BobWestbrook> (Hosea 5:15 NIV) Then I will go back to my place until they admit their guilt. And they will seek my face; in their misery they will earnestly seek me."

[20:46] <BobWestbrook> (Hosea 6:1 NIV) "Come, let us return to the LORD. He has torn us to pieces but he will heal us; he has injured us but he will bind up our wounds.

[20:46] <BobWestbrook> notice they are saying, "Come, let us return to the Lord"

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[20:46] <CJ-Seeker567> I like that seek word for some reason

[20:46] <EagleShield> :-)

[20:46] <BobWestbrook> yes, earnestly search for Him

[20:47] <EagleShield> let us return....means group, together

[20:47] <BobWestbrook> Welcome Versace, to Bible Prophecy Chat

[20:47] <BobWestbrook> we are looking at Jeremiah chapter 31

[20:47] <CJ-Seeker567> welcome

[20:47] <EagleShield> shalom! :-)

[20:47] <RetroRyan> Hi Versace

[20:47] <versace206> hello

[20:48] <versace206> shalom

[20:48] <BobWestbrook> Now, the next verse, is the Lord's response to Israel's declaration of remorse:

[20:48] <CJ-Seeker567> Shalom

[20:48] <BobWestbrook> (Jeremiah 31:20 NIV) Is not Ephraim my dear son, the child in whom I delight? Though I often speak against him, I still remember him. Therefore my heart yearns for him; I have great compassion for him," declares the LORD.

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[20:48] <CJ-Seeker567> Ephraim always throws me

[20:49] <BobWestbrook> This verse has made me weep for myself before, knowing how many times God has "spoken against me" because of my disobedience

[20:49] <EagleShield> yeah

[20:49] <RetroRyan> Divine compassion

[20:49] <BobWestbrook> Yet God still speaks in glowing terms of this person (me)

[20:49] <BobWestbrook> And Israel

[20:49] <EagleShield> Ultimate love expressed in the end. Though none of us deserve it

[20:49] <BobWestbrook> His HEART YEARNS

[20:49] <CJ-Seeker567> yes

[20:49] <BobWestbrook> GREAT COMPASSION

[20:50] <BobWestbrook> we must not miss the great intensity of emotion in this verse

[20:50] <BobWestbrook> God expresses towards Israel

[20:50] <BobWestbrook> "my dear son"

[20:50] <RetroRyan> KJV says "my bowels are troubled for him"

[20:50] <EagleShield> It's like when Drew disobeys me in a major way

[20:51] <BobWestbrook> Good, Ryan - very deep set anguish, in the sense of wanting the best for a wayward child

[20:51] <EagleShield> But you better believe I will reach out to him and take him in my arms

[20:51] <CJ-Seeker567> Ithe depths of trouble even to the bowels

[20:51] <BobWestbrook> and deep compassion

[20:51] <BobWestbrook> we have no idea how deep

[20:51] <BobWestbrook> right, Delta

[20:51] <EagleShield> (in OT, bowels was equivalent to "heart" as we use it now, the seat of emotions)

[20:51] <CJ-Seeker567> ok

[20:52] <BobWestbrook> Now, the next part answers Allyn's question - about "how" to return

[20:52] <EagleShield> :-)

[20:52] <CJ-Seeker567> oh goodie

[20:52] <BobWestbrook> :)

[20:52] <BobWestbrook> (Jeremiah 31:21 NIV) "Set up road signs; put up guideposts. Take note of the highway, the road that you take. Return, O Virgin Israel, return to your towns.

[20:53] <EagleShield> Oh WOW

[20:53] <BobWestbrook> You find the way back by reading the road signs :)

[20:53] <CJ-Seeker567> more than instinct

[20:53] <BobWestbrook> tell us, Delta, elaborate on your WOW :)

[20:53] <EagleShield> Bob, talk about complete forgiveness!

[20:53] <EagleShield> "Return, O Virgin Israel, return to your towns"

[20:53] <EagleShield> He forgets her adultery, fornication,

[20:54] <EagleShield> and sees her so pure, even as a Virgin.

[20:54] <BobWestbrook> that's a good observation!

[20:54] <EagleShield> WOW

[20:54] <CJ-Seeker567> Tell me this, Why does God have such an intense heart for Israel..Even from the beginning

[20:54] <BobWestbrook> wow is right

[20:54] <CJ-Seeker567> I think I know

[20:54] <BobWestbrook> I guess, Allyn, the only adequate answer is His sovereign choice

[20:55] <BobWestbrook> Jacob have I loved

[20:55] <EagleShield> Psalm 115 says He does as He pleases

[20:55] <CJ-Seeker567> and His love for obedience

[20:55] <CJ-Seeker567> Abraham obeyed..God Blessed

[20:55] <BobWestbrook> listen to how "The Message" paraphrases that verse

[20:56] <BobWestbrook> "Set up signposts to mark your trip home...

[20:56] <BobWestbrook> get a good map....

[20:56] <CJ-Seeker567> God Blessed with a promise

[20:56] <BobWestbrook> study the road conditions...

[20:56] <BobWestbrook> the road out is the road back."

[20:56] <EagleShield> Confused look on face here

[20:57] <BobWestbrook> yes?

[20:57] <CJ-Seeker567> I get it Bob

[20:57] <EagleShield> "the road out is the road back."

[20:57] <BobWestbrook> Yeshua was the road out - Yeshua is the road back

[20:57] <EagleShield> Ok....still lost

[20:57] <EagleShield> was not the road out because of sin?

[20:57] <BobWestbrook> yes? tell us :)

[20:57] <CJ-Seeker567> don't make it so hard Delta

[20:58] <BobWestbrook> The road out, ultimately, was because of the rejection of their Lord and Deliverer

[20:58] <CJ-Seeker567> It all boils down to Messiah

[20:58] <RetroRyan> But what are the signposts?

[20:58] <EagleShield> Ok, so take back the rejection....hmmmm

[20:58] <BobWestbrook> The Scriptures, and the people pointing to them (that would be, uh, us) :)

[20:59] <CJ-Seeker567> Delta :)

[20:59] <EagleShield> What about those know truly seek Him, and believe He is to come for the first time, than to return?

[20:59] <EagleShield> Would G-d not honor that?

[20:59] <EagleShield> (thinking aloud)

[20:59] <CJ-Seeker567> that what they believe does not change truth

[21:00] <CJ-Seeker567> God deals with truth and Heart

[21:00] <EagleShield> No, but they ARE seeking

[21:00] <BobWestbrook> Only He can answer that, Delta - but the seeking process will lead them to their Messiah, if they are seeking in truth

[21:00] <CJ-Seeker567> yes

[21:00] <EagleShield> What about those who will weep when they see Him "whom they have pierced"?

[21:00] <EagleShield> Does that not indicate there are some who will not know until they see Him?

[21:00] <BobWestbrook> Well, I guess they will have found Him then :)

[21:01] <CJ-Seeker567> Repentance

[21:01] <EagleShield> This is a hard place for me, to be honest, because of the Jewish people who are embracing G-d because of the example Christians are setting

[21:01] <BobWestbrook> it's a process, Delta, right? you're speaking of individuals, but these verse are looking at a broad process for the group

[21:02] <EagleShield> Ok...group, think group

[21:02] <EagleShield> :-)

[21:02] <BobWestbrook> And as they do, if they keep seeking, and keep looking into the Scriptures with an honest heart, they cannot help but see Yeshua

[21:02] <CJ-Seeker567> Just as nations are lost..individuals are saved

[21:02] <EagleShield> Oh I hope so! I hope my life shows Him

[21:03] <BobWestbrook> we all play a part in showing the Messiah

[21:03] <EagleShield> I wanna be a roadsign

[21:03] <BobWestbrook> we are all vital in this process

[21:03] <BobWestbrook> I like that, Delta - that's a good phrase

[21:03] <CJ-Seeker567> no carreer move there

[21:03] <BobWestbrook> let's start a "I wanna be a roadsign" club :)

[21:03] <EagleShield> Yep, Watcher on the Walls, roadsign

[21:03] <CJ-Seeker567> :)

[21:03] <EagleShield> Yeah!

[21:03] <BobWestbrook> grin

[21:04] <RetroRyan> I seem to be having internet connection problems at the moment...

[21:04] <EagleShield> "I wanna be a roadsign, to point the Way

[21:04] <EagleShield> to the Truth and the Life...."

[21:04] <CJ-Seeker567> I think theres something in that

[21:04] <EagleShield> Needs a tune, Bob

[21:04] <BobWestbrook> :)

[21:04] <BobWestbrook> isn't this fun!! :)

[21:04] <EagleShield> It's such a simple thing. Bob, can we look at the verse again in light of being roadsigns?

[21:04] <CJ-Seeker567> It's a kick

[21:04] <RetroRyan> Still there?

[21:05] <EagleShield> (light bulb blinking above my head)

[21:05] <BobWestbrook> (Jeremiah 31:21 NIV) "Set up road signs; put up guideposts. Take note of the highway, the road that you take. Return, O Virgin Israel, return to your towns.

[21:05] <EagleShield> here Ryan

[21:05] <RetroRyan> \

[21:05] <BobWestbrook> another translation

[21:05] <BobWestbrook> (Jeremiah 31:21 NASB) "Set up for yourself roadmarks, Place for yourself guideposts; Direct your mind to the highway, The way by which you went. Return, O virgin of Israel, Return to these your cities.

[21:05] <BobWestbrook> and notice - Jeremiah ties, as do other prophets, the physical return to the spiritual return

[21:05] <EagleShield> It's getting me in my heart and "bowels".

[21:05] <EagleShield> ewwww

[21:06] <BobWestbrook> Can you see us Ryan?

[21:06] <CJ-Seeker567> What should the roadsign say?

[21:06] <BobWestbrook> (Jeremiah 50:4-5 NIV) "In those days, at that time," declares the LORD, "the people of Israel and the people of Judah together will go in tears to seek the LORD their God. {5} They will ask the way to Zion and turn their faces toward it. They will come and bind themselves to the LORD in an everlasting covenant that will not be forgotten.

[21:06] <BobWestbrook> The road sign will say... "

[21:07] <BobWestbrook> "This way to Zion"

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[21:07] <EagleShield> There are several, so perhaps several ways to point in the direction??? One through prayer, one through evangelism, one through compassion...???

[21:07] <CJ-Seeker567> I like it.. I see a .gif being born

[21:07] <BobWestbrook> not to physical Zion, or political Zion, but spiritual Zion

[21:07] <EagleShield> .gif?

[21:07] <BobWestbrook> the City of the Great King

[21:07] <CJ-Seeker567> webmaster talk Delta

[21:08] <BobWestbrook> Zion, the throne of the Lord

[21:08] <EagleShield> ok

[21:08] <EagleShield> Reminds me of a song by Petra

[21:08] <BobWestbrook> the way to Zion is the way to Messiah Yeshua

[21:08] <EagleShield> "The Road to Zion's in Your Heart"

[21:08] <CJ-Seeker567> great way of saying it Bob

[21:09] <EagleShield> I still wanna me a signpost, a roadsign

[21:09] <CJ-Seeker567> and you too dDelta..you slipped it in

[21:09] <EagleShield> :-)

[21:09] <EagleShield> Ryan's gone!

[21:09] <BobWestbrook> that's the cool thing about these chats - when we ask the Holy Spirit to lead them, He does - I don't have much of any idea what I'm going to say beforehand

[21:09] <CJ-Seeker567> I can invision a wooden sign sligtly tilted, with an arrow pointing to the road

[21:10] <BobWestbrook> Now, v 22 is quite an enigma to me

[21:10] <EagleShield> oooh oooh, do tell, Bob!

[21:10] <CJ-Seeker567> saying.."This way to Zion"

[21:10] <BobWestbrook> We'll be interested to see what you come up with, Allyn :)

[21:10] <EagleShield> :-) good Seeker!

[21:10] <CJ-Seeker567> don't tempt me

[21:10] <EagleShield> hee hee

[21:11] <BobWestbrook> maybe we can get a Hebrew version of it also!

[21:11] <CJ-Seeker567> cool

[21:11] <BobWestbrook> go for it :)

[21:11] <CJ-Seeker567> :)

[21:11] <BobWestbrook> ok, this next verse is quite a puzzle

[21:11] <EagleShield> "This one was born in Zion....." I like that too

[21:11] <EagleShield> :-)

[21:11] <EagleShield> ready

[21:11] <BobWestbrook> (Jeremiah 31:22 NIV) How long will you wander, O unfaithful daughter? The LORD will create a new thing on earth-- a woman will surround a man."

[21:11] <CJ-Seeker567> Yes, Bob, I agree..the Lord does seem to move these chats

[21:11] <BobWestbrook> (Jeremiah 31:22 NASB) "How long will you go here and there, O faithless daughter? For the LORD has created a new thing in the earth-- A woman will encompass a man."

[21:11] <BobWestbrook> Yes, He does

[21:12] <EagleShield> Oh Bob! I understand the last part!

[21:12] <EagleShield> Honest!

[21:12] <BobWestbrook> You do! Tell me!

[21:12] <BobWestbrook> Cuz I don't

[21:12] <EagleShield> In the Jewish wedding ceremony

[21:12] <BobWestbrook> Perhaps it takes a woman's viewpoint

[21:12] <EagleShield> the bride walks around the groom seven times

[21:12] <EagleShield> encompassing him, symbolic of her love and protection of him and the home

[21:13] <EagleShield> Does that help??

[21:13] <CJ-Seeker567> And of course that make all the sense in the world to the jew and thus this verse comes to understanding

[21:13] <BobWestbrook> ok, that's good! so what is this new, unique thing that God is doing with Israel?

[21:13] <BobWestbrook> using that symbolism?

[21:13] <EagleShield> When the bride quits wandering here and there

[21:13] <EagleShield> looking from one to another

[21:13] <EagleShield> and settles with G-d, she marries Him

[21:14] <EagleShield> Like Isaiah said

[21:14] <EagleShield> Ithink

[21:14] <EagleShield> I think

[21:14] <EagleShield> sorry

[21:14] <CJ-Seeker567> wow..very good Delta..you cleared that up

[21:14] <BobWestbrook> ahhh, very good - you guys have provided more insight than all the commentaries I looked at

[21:14] <EagleShield> Blushing....

[21:14] <CJ-Seeker567> Not me

[21:14] <EagleShield> it just "hit" me

[21:14] <BobWestbrook> That's the Holy Spirit

[21:15] <EagleShield> yeah, He's our partner!

[21:15] <CJ-Seeker567> yep

[21:15] <EagleShield> I just don't understand why we wander

[21:15] <BobWestbrook> It means, of course, that it's part of that continued theme of return

[21:15] <EagleShield> sigh

[21:15] <BobWestbrook> that we've been talking about

[21:15] <CJ-Seeker567> so His truth can be made maifest in our lives

[21:15] <BobWestbrook> And that's the new thing

[21:15] <EagleShield> ooook, It's fitting!

[21:16] <BobWestbrook> for Israel, that they will finally be wedded

[21:16] <BobWestbrook> after being a faithless daughter for so long

[21:16] <EagleShield> Makes the parable of the virgins more understandable too?

[21:16] <BobWestbrook> (Jeremiah 31:22 NRSV) How long will you waver, O faithless daughter? For the LORD has created a new thing on the earth: a woman encompasses a man.

[21:17] <BobWestbrook> And it is today the question the Lord is asking Israel:

[21:17] <CJ-Seeker567> Well this has been great..wish more could have made it

[21:17] <BobWestbrook> How long will it be before you decide to stop wandering and come to the source of true love for you?

[21:17] <BobWestbrook> Thank you, Delta :)

[21:17] <CJ-Seeker567> infinite patience

[21:17] <BobWestbrook> Yes

[21:18] <EagleShield> Oh wow, the next verse completes it Bob

[21:18] <BobWestbrook> (Jeremiah 31:23 NIV) This is what the LORD Almighty, the God of Israel, says: "When I bring them back from captivity, the people in the land of Judah and in its towns will once again use these words: 'The LORD bless you, O righteous dwelling, O sacred mountain.'

[21:18] <BobWestbrook> Hallelujah!

[21:18] <BobWestbrook> Oh, this is glorious!

[21:18] <EagleShield> perhaps THAT's when the wandering stops!!!???!!!

[21:18] <EagleShield> hee hee!

[21:19] <EagleShield> BIG Wedding ceremony

[21:19] <CJ-Seeker567> Who will be the ones to remind them they need to say that old phrase?

[21:19] <EagleShield> Completing what Yeshua said

[21:19] <BobWestbrook> See, this is how we know we are in the end times - because the physical return is linked to the spiritual return

[21:19] <EagleShield> S0 Kewl

[21:19] <BobWestbrook> maybe the same ones pointing at the road signs? :)

[21:20] <CJ-Seeker567> or the scribes of today..being stored up for that hour

[21:20] <BobWestbrook> like, Oy Vey! Look at the Road Signs already!!!!

[21:20] <BobWestbrook> LOL

[21:20] <CJ-Seeker567> lol

[21:20] <EagleShield> Well, Ezra knew the Word, and read the Word to those who were re-building Jerusalem

[21:20] <EagleShield> LOL

[21:20] <EagleShield> Bob and Seeker

[21:20] <CJ-Seeker567> Delta..yes

[21:21] <EagleShield> That fits with what you were saying Seeker

[21:21] <CJ-Seeker567> which was?

[21:21] <EagleShield> the scribes of today being stored up for that very hour

[21:21] <CJ-Seeker567> yes..yes

[21:22] <EagleShield> G-d is soooo good! Dancing in my chair!

[21:22] <BobWestbrook> (Jeremiah 31:24-25 NIV) People will live together in Judah and all its towns--farmers and those who move about with their flocks. {25} I will refresh the weary and satisfy the faint."

[21:22] <BobWestbrook> :)

[21:22] <CJ-Seeker567> these guys aren't just crazies..they are God's instruments

[21:22] <BobWestbrook> "all its towns" - notice

[21:22] <BobWestbrook> ALL

[21:22] <EagleShield> Hey, that means Samaria, Yesha,

[21:23] <BobWestbrook> Jericho, Shechem, Bethel, Bethlehem, Hebron

[21:23] <EagleShield> GASP! Even the part of Jordan that rightfully is Israel!

[21:23] <BobWestbrook> right

[21:23] <BobWestbrook> Now this next verse is cool

[21:23] <EagleShield> Therefore.....G-d's gonna have movers ready, eh?

[21:23] <BobWestbrook> (Jeremiah 31:26 NIV) At this I awoke and looked around. My sleep had been pleasant to me.

[21:23] <BobWestbrook> Jeremiah got all this in a dream

[21:23] <EagleShield> rubbing hands together

[21:24] <BobWestbrook> and when he woke up, he was quite happy

[21:24] <BobWestbrook> poor guy, he didn't get to get happy very often :)

[21:24] <EagleShield> LOL

[21:24] <CJ-Seeker567> :(

[21:24] <EagleShield> lets get happy with him

[21:24] <BobWestbrook> But I want you to get the transition here, to the next part, because it is significant

[21:25] <EagleShield> (thinking Partridge Family song)

[21:25] <CJ-Seeker567> oh brother

[21:25] <BobWestbrook> immediately, God starts talking to him as he is, I assume, sitting in his bed

[21:25] <EagleShield> lol waiting Bob

[21:25] <BobWestbrook> and now it's not a dream, but a straightforward declaration, a powerful one

[21:25] <BobWestbrook> (Jeremiah 31:27-28 NIV) "The days are coming," declares the LORD, "when I will plant the house of Israel and the house of Judah with the offspring of men and of animals. {28} Just as I watched over them to uproot and tear down, and to overthrow, destroy and bring disaster, so I will watch over them to build and to plant," declares the LORD.

[21:26] <BobWestbrook> See, there is emphasis here

[21:26] <EagleShield> YEAH!!!!!!!!!!

[21:26] <BobWestbrook> and then God goes on in his discourse to describe the new covenant as well

[21:27] <BobWestbrook> but the point I'm trying to make is the setting is imporant to the emphasis

[21:27] <CJ-Seeker567> so an absolute, not a maybe if this happens or that happens

[21:27] <EagleShield> The day IS coming.....

[21:27] <BobWestbrook> Jeremiah wakes up from his dream, and God says, ok, This is what it's all about, Jeremiah

[21:27] <EagleShield> The day is becomming a reality to a point

[21:27] <BobWestbrook> speaking directly to him

[21:27] <EagleShield> Right?

[21:27] <BobWestbrook> right

[21:28] <EagleShield> Like, we are in the middle of "A day is coming"?

[21:28] <CJ-Seeker567> who knows about that, but the Day is coming

[21:28] <BobWestbrook> we are in the middle of it, yes

[21:28] <BobWestbrook> God is planting

[21:29] <EagleShield> (whew, thought I lost you)

[21:29] <BobWestbrook> remember at the beginning of the book? the theme of "watching over" is signficant in Jeremiah

[21:29] <EagleShield> G-d's not too politically correct, eh?

[21:29] <EagleShield> For which I am glad

[21:30] <BobWestbrook> When Jeremiah was called as a young man:

[21:30] <BobWestbrook> (Jeremiah 1:9-10 NIV) Then the LORD reached out his hand and touched my mouth and said to me, "Now, I have put my words in your mouth. {10} See, today I appoint you over nations and kingdoms to uproot and tear down, to destroy and overthrow, to build and to plant."

[21:30] <BobWestbrook> (Jeremiah 1:11-12 NIV) The word of the LORD came to me: "What do you see, Jeremiah?" "I see the branch of an almond tree," I replied. {12} The LORD said to me, "You have seen correctly, for I am watching to see that my word is fulfilled."

[21:30] <EagleShield> WOW again.......

[21:31] <CJ-Seeker567> and the almond tree represents...?

[21:31] <BobWestbrook> now, He says, that He is "watching over" to rebuild and replant

[21:31] <BobWestbrook> it's a play on words - the Hebrew word sounds almost the same

[21:31] <CJ-Seeker567> is almond the correct translation?

[21:32] <EagleShield> olive tree?

[21:32] <CJ-Seeker567> fig

[21:32] <BobWestbrook> yes, almond and watching sound almost the same, if I remember correctly

[21:32] <EagleShield> ok, I got lost again

[21:32] <EagleShield> A "watching tree"?

[21:33] <CJ-Seeker567> I need to study on that

[21:33] <EagleShield> (stop laughing!) :-)

[21:33] <BobWestbrook> 8247. shaqed, shaw-kade'; from H8245; the almond (tree or nut; as being the earliest in bloom):--almond (tree).

[21:33] <BobWestbrook> 8245. shaqad, shaw-kad'; a prim. root; to be alert, i.e. sleepless; hence to be on the lookout (whether for good or ill):--hasten, remain, wake, watch (for).

[21:33] <CJ-Seeker567> ok..gtcha

[21:34] <EagleShield> Ok, Bob, put the verse together with the watchfulness instead of almond., please?

[21:34] <EagleShield> Trying to grasp this good

[21:34] <BobWestbrook> ok

[21:34] <CJ-Seeker567> lol

[21:34] <BobWestbrook> you mean the play on words?

[21:34] <EagleShield> yes

[21:34] <EagleShield> please

[21:35] <BobWestbrook> "I see the branch of a shaqed tree"

[21:35] <CJ-Seeker567> Delta, it loses something in the english

[21:35] <EagleShield> thinking

[21:35] <BobWestbrook> "you have seen correctly, for I am shaqad to see that my word is fulfilled"

[21:35] <CJ-Seeker567> Jesus did this also..but the paticular verse escapes me

[21:35] <CJ-Seeker567> Rock

[21:35] <EagleShield> Watch and wait

[21:35] <BobWestbrook> yes, it's not uncommon

[21:36] <EagleShield> Wait and see if I will not do that which I promised

[21:36] <CJ-Seeker567> rock vs. Rock

[21:36] <BobWestbrook> right

[21:36] <EagleShield> What do you see? I see a tree that is waiting....deep roots , gives fruit, shade....

[21:36] <EagleShield> lots can be taken from that!

[21:37] <BobWestbrook> (Jeremiah 31:28 NIV) Just as I watched over them to uproot and tear down, and to overthrow, destroy and bring disaster, so I will watch over them to build and to plant," declares the LORD.

[21:37] <EagleShield> Root of Jesse....

[21:37] <BobWestbrook> This is active involvement, and it describes a change in policy and disposition

[21:37] <EagleShield> There G-d is reminding Jeremiah of what He had told him in the beginning

[21:37] <EagleShield> right?

[21:38] <BobWestbrook> Right

[21:38] <EagleShield> So, ya'll's understanding is????

[21:39] <BobWestbrook> And in one sense, it is a unilateral action - God is taking the initiative here - though He will respond to their repentance, HE is initiating the process!!

[21:39] <BobWestbrook> This is very important

[21:39] <EagleShield> Groom proposing to the Bride?

[21:39] <BobWestbrook> not proposing anything, more like demanding :)

[21:39] <CJ-Seeker567> it's more then a propsal

[21:40] <EagleShield> Oh ok, knock her over the head with the club...lol

[21:40] <BobWestbrook> that's about it :)

[21:40] <CJ-Seeker567> that was real enlightening

[21:40] <EagleShield> He's had to do that with me ya know?

[21:40] <CJ-Seeker567> great time had

[21:40] <EagleShield> :-)

[21:40] <BobWestbrook> Yes, we'll continue on here next time :)

[21:41] <EagleShield> :-)

[21:41] <BobWestbrook> Thanks, friends, this has been great :)

[21:41] <CJ-Seeker567> I enjoyed

[21:41] <EagleShield> Me too!

[21:50] <EagleShield> Well, guys, it's been great, but I gotta go

[21:50] <EagleShield> I loved this tonight!

[21:50] <BobWestbrook> Thanks - me too!

[21:50] <BobWestbrook> Night all - Shalom!

[21:50] <CJ-Seeker567> Shalom

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[21:50] <CJ-Seeker567> see ya Bob

[21:51] <BobWestbrook> See ya! :)

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