*** Log file opened: 3/21/02 7:55:46 PM

[19:55] <MarvBMar> Hi Bob

[19:55] <Bezalel3> 2Right, there are cookies loaded on your PC to take care of the name/password.

[19:56] <Bezalel3> 2Shalom, Bob.

[19:56] <BobWestbrook> Shalom Bez, and Marion!

[19:56] <MarvBMar> well it didn't work Tuesday!!!

[19:56] <BobWestbrook> mmm cookies!

[19:56] <Bezalel3> 2:-)

[19:56] <BobWestbrook> I like chocolate chip, the gooey kind, the best

[19:56] <Bezalel3> 2Ezekiel 37 tonight, Bob?

[19:57] <BobWestbrook> Yessir!

[19:57] <MarvBMar> Shalom

[19:58] <MarvBMar> I sometimes serve tea!!!!

[19:58] <MarvBMar> cause I have lots of cookies lol

[19:58] <BobWestbrook> When we started this series in Ezekiel, we started at chapter 33

[19:59] <BobWestbrook> but these chapters of comfort we've been examining can only be fully understood in the context of the beginning of the book

[19:59] <MarvBMar> another terrible day in Israel

[19:59] <BobWestbrook> which consists of a scathing indictment of the people, and God's sentence on them

[19:59] <BobWestbrook> Yes, a terrible day

[20:00] <BobWestbrook> I was chatting online with Stan shortly after the bombing, and he said Franny heard the blast

[20:00] <BobWestbrook> must have been huge

[20:00] <MarvBMar> it looked terrible!

[20:01] <MarvBMar> so much for the PLO wanting peace

[20:01] <BobWestbrook> Yes, a massive explosion - and one of Arafat's factions is to blame

[20:01] <MarvBMar> on cbn a news clip said many were turning to God

[20:02] <BobWestbrook> Al Aqsa Martyr's - aptly named, perhaps, because a lot more of them are going to lose their lives in their vain quest to secure God's Holy Hill for themselves

[20:02] <BobWestbrook> Yes, Marion? Tell us more

[20:02] <MarvBMar> it also showed that the Rabbis were permitting some men with guns in the Synagoges to protect the peiople

[20:03] <MarvBMar> it was just a short news clip

[20:03] <BobWestbrook> This is not surprising, of course - a number of the prophecies we've examined tell us explicitly that Israel's eyes will turn to the Lord during these times

[20:03] <MarvBMar> PTL

[20:04] <MarvBMar> this is the first time the Rabbis have allowed this

[20:04] <Bezalel3> 2That's the purpose of the current trials, isn't it? To put Israel in a position that only God will receive the honor for salvation.

[20:04] PatchouliJudy [~PatchouliJudy@jproxy16.talkcity.com] has joined #IsraelMyBeloved

[20:04] <BobWestbrook> Yes, indeed, Bez, I was reading from Isaiah 27 the other day....

[20:05] <MarvBMar> I also heard a short interview with Bebie

[20:05] <BobWestbrook> and what you said is similar to this:

[20:05] <MarvBMar> Hi JudyH

[20:05] <Bezalel3> 2Bibi's visibility is obvious recently.

[20:05] <BobWestbrook> Yes? Tell us about the interview

[20:05] <MarvBMar> he was very strong

[20:06] <BobWestbrook> This from the New Living Translation

[20:06] <BobWestbrook> I, the LORD, will watch over it and tend its fruitful vines. Each day I will water them; day and night I will watch to keep enemies away. 4 My anger against Israel will be gone. If I find briers and thorns bothering her, I will burn them up. 5 These enemies will be spared only if they surrender and beg for peace and protection." 6 The time is coming when my people will take root. Israel will bud and blossom and fill the whole earth with her fruit!

[20:06] <MarvBMar> He defended Israel's right to defend themselve just as we have been doing

[20:06] PatchouliJudy568 [~PatchouliJudy@jproxy13.talkcity.com] has joined #IsraelMyBeloved

[20:07] tryChrist [~tryChrist@jproxy16.talkcity.com] has joined #IsraelMyBeloved

[20:07] <BobWestbrook> V 5 in the NIV perhaps is better:

[20:07] <BobWestbrook> I, the LORD, will watch over it and tend its fruitful vines. Each day I will water them; day and night I will watch to keep enemies away. 4 My anger against Israel will be gone. If I find briers and thorns bothering her, I will burn them up. 5 These enemies will be spared only if they surrender and beg for peace and protection." 6 The time is coming when my people will take root. Israel will bud and blossom and fill the whole earth with her fruit!

[20:07] <BobWestbrook> oops

[20:07] *** Disconnected ***

*** Log file closed: 3/21/02 8:07:32 PM

*** Log file opened: 3/21/02 8:08:03 PM

[20:08] <Bezalel3> 2Hi Miller.

[20:08] <BobWestbrook> Or else let them come to me for refuge; let them make peace with me, yes, let them make peace with me."

[20:08] PatchouliJudy568 [~PatchouliJudy@jproxy13.talkcity.com] has quit IRC (PatchouliJudy568 has left the room)

[20:08] <MarvBMar> Hi Miller

[20:08] <Bezalel3> 2Are you sticking this time, Judy?

[20:08] <BobWestbrook> God speaking about Israel

[20:08] <BobWestbrook> Hi Miller!

[20:08] <MarvBMar> I like that too Bob

[20:09] IMB-Seeker [~IMB-Seeker@jproxy15.talkcity.com] has joined #IsraelMyBeloved

[20:09] <IMB-Seeker> Shalom all

[20:09] PatchouliJudy [~PatchouliJudy@jproxy16.talkcity.com] has quit IRC (PatchouliJudy)

[20:09] <BobWestbrook> Hi Seeker!

[20:09] <IMB-Seeker> I had a little trouble getting on..but made it

[20:09] <MarvBMar> Shalom Seeker

[20:09] <tryChrist> currious thought I had today, US wants Israel to have a backbone, yet about a week ago the US condemed their actions...

[20:10] <IMB-Seeker> Hi Marion

[20:10] EdenAli [~EdenAli@jproxy15.talkcity.com] has joined #IsraelMyBeloved

[20:10] <MarvBMar> Bob does v5 mean Israel's enemies?

[20:10] <tryChrist> hey Seeker, howdy! I'm still gonna write ya... just been very busy...

[20:10] <EdenAli> Shalom All

[20:10] <MarvBMar> Shalom Eden

[20:11] <BobWestbrook> Hi Aussie Eden Ali!

[20:11] <IMB-Seeker> Hi Miller..yes, I will be watching the email

[20:11] <Bezalel3> 2Hi Eden.....:-)

[20:11] <EdenAli> G'day Bob

[20:11] <IMB-Seeker> G'day Eden

[20:11] <IMB-Seeker> Hi Bez

[20:11] <BobWestbrook> OK, let

[20:11] <BobWestbrook> lets pray :)

[20:11] <EdenAli> How you going mate? (Aussie greeting)

[20:11] <MarvBMar> Bo which chapter were you using here

[20:11] <BobWestbrook> Ezekiel 37

[20:11] <Bezalel3> 2Hi Seeker...

[20:12] <IMB-Seeker> Good

[20:12] <MarvBMar> Bob

[20:12] <BobWestbrook> oh, earlier you mean? Isaiah 27

[20:12] <MarvBMar> thanks

[20:12] <BobWestbrook> Lord God, giver of life, we honor you tonight

[20:13] <BobWestbrook> You are our resurrection, Lord Jesus, who gives us hope in the midst of despair

[20:13] <EdenAli> Lord please Bless this fellowship with Bob

[20:13] <Bezalel3> 2Annoint our gathering with the Holy Spirit.

[20:13] <BobWestbrook> and you have chosen us to be your servants, to communicate your truth

[20:13] <BobWestbrook> May we gain understanding from your Spirit tonight as you teach us

[20:14] <BobWestbrook> We bless your name, you are Mighty!

[20:14] lilycocoon [~lilycocoon@jproxy15.talkcity.com] has joined #IsraelMyBeloved

[20:14] <BobWestbrook> Thank you for using us, though we are so imperfect

[20:14] <MarvBMar> Lord I pray that you will be in control & mayy there not be disruption

[20:14] <BobWestbrook> You have cleansed us and made us acceptable - thank you for the atonement of blood!

[20:15] <MarvBMar> may YOU be glorified

[20:15] <MarvBMar> yes thank you Lord

[20:15] <BobWestbrook> Amen!

[20:15] <MarvBMar> Amen

[20:15] <EdenAli> Amen

[20:15] <Bezalel3> 2Amen, and hallelujah.

[20:15] <lilycocoon> 5Amen

[20:15] <IMB-Seeker> Amen

[20:16] <BobWestbrook> Hallelujah Indeed! :)

[20:16] <IMB-Seeker> :)

[20:16] <MarvBMar> hi Lily

[20:16] <tryChrist> \0/ giving Him glory

[20:16] <BobWestbrook> I guess you have all heard of the bombing today, another one.

[20:17] <lilycocoon> 5Blessings All!!

[20:17] <MarvBMar> Praise & worship

[20:17] <lilycocoon> 5Yes, Bob

[20:17] <BobWestbrook> Hi Lily!

[20:17] <EdenAli> woo hoo them dry bones, da da, isn't there a chorus like that?

[20:17] <IMB-Seeker> greetings Lily

[20:17] <BobWestbrook> Yeah, Eden, sing it for us, will ya?

[20:17] <Bezalel3> 2brb

[20:18] <BobWestbrook> Dem bones dem bones dem drrrryyyy bones, now heard the Word of the Lord!

[20:18] <MarvBMar> dem bones dem bones dem dry bones!

[20:18] <BobWestbrook> :)

[20:18] <EdenAli> Blush can't sing

[20:18] <IMB-Seeker> you guys sing in perfect harmony

[20:18] <MarvBMar> :-)

[20:19] <BobWestbrook> Well, as Stan said, put on your hiking boots, and fill your canteens

[20:19] <BobWestbrook> Cuz we are going to the valley

[20:19] <Bezalel3> 2back

[20:19] <BobWestbrook> (Ezekiel 37:1 NIV) The hand of the LORD was upon me, and he brought me out by the Spirit of the LORD and set me in the middle of a valley; it was full of bones.

[20:19] <MarvBMar> but we are not dry bones!!!!!!!!!!!! PTL

[20:19] <lilycocoon> 5Resurrection Time!!

[20:19] INAMINUTE50 [~INAMINUTE50@jproxy14.talkcity.com] has joined #IsraelMyBeloved

[20:20] <BobWestbrook> As we read this, try to place yourself in Ezekiel's place and feel the emotions he was feeling

[20:20] <IMB-Seeker> yes it is..!

[20:20] <Bezalel3> 2Hi Ina...welcome back.

[20:20] <BobWestbrook> Hi Ina! Good to have you again!

[20:20] <INAMINUTE50> thanks...hi all

[20:20] <lilycocoon> 5depressed, forsaken?

[20:20] <BobWestbrook> We are in Ezekiel 37, just getting started

[20:20] <BobWestbrook> (Ezekiel 37:1 NIV) The hand of the LORD was upon me, and he brought me out by the Spirit of the LORD and set me in the middle of a valley; it was full of bones.

[20:20] <Bezalel3> 2Confused?

[20:20] <EdenAli> As he saw the tribes being ressurected?

[20:20] <INAMINUTE50> ok...

[20:20] <BobWestbrook> bones are what?

[20:21] <INAMINUTE50> bodies

[20:21] <MarvBMar> dead

[20:21] <BobWestbrook> DEAD

[20:21] <BobWestbrook> what a sight - as far as he could see, bones

[20:21] <BobWestbrook> human bones

[20:21] <EdenAli> but they still have the DNA imprint AND can be resurrected

[20:21] <BobWestbrook> (Ezekiel 37:2 NIV) He led me back and forth among them, and I saw a great many bones on the floor of the valley, bones that were very dry.

[20:21] <MarvBMar> it is a disgrace for them not to be buried

[20:22] <BobWestbrook> Ezekiel walked around for quite awhile, examining the scene

[20:22] <tryChrist> perplexed, I imagine &)

[20:22] <BobWestbrook> not only dead, but "very dry"

[20:22] <lilycocoon> 5Reminds me of the Nazi death camps

[20:22] <MarvBMar> sad

[20:22] <MarvBMar> he must have felt unclean

[20:23] <tryChrist> baren, lifeless and empty

[20:23] <BobWestbrook> Good point, Marion

[20:23] <BobWestbrook> yes, Miller

[20:23] <BobWestbrook> (Ezekiel 37:3 NIV) He asked me, "Son of man, can these bones live?" I said, "O Sovereign LORD, you alone know."

[20:23] <MarvBMar> it would seem to him hopeless

[20:23] <EdenAli> you dont like my ideas Bob?

[20:23] <BobWestbrook> Your ideas are marvelous, Eden :)

[20:24] <EdenAli> ok, thought I was on the right track

[20:24] <BobWestbrook> Why did God ask the question - what do you think?

[20:24] <MarvBMar> did you see the picture ..The killing fields"?

[20:24] <lilycocoon> 5Wonderful how E throws it back to the LORD

[20:24] <EdenAli> testing Ezekiel's faith

[20:25] <lilycocoon> 5I agree Eden

[20:25] <BobWestbrook> What's the obvious answer to that question, from a natural perspective?

[20:25] <BobWestbrook> The obvious answer is NO, of course not, dead is dead

[20:25] <MarvBMar> I think stretching his faith

[20:25] <lilycocoon> 5Not gonna happen

[20:25] <BobWestbrook> But Ezekiel knows God

[20:25] <EdenAli> the bones are just bones, the dead bodies without life

[20:25] Rich_31 [~Rich_31@jproxy11.talkcity.com] has joined #IsraelMyBeloved

[20:26] <MarvBMar> & he would obey God

[20:26] <Rich_31> 7Hello Bob

[20:26] <lilycocoon> 5lBlessings Rich

[20:26] <BobWestbrook> To me, this scene is one full of emotion

[20:26] <Rich_31> 7hello Seeker

[20:26] <MarvBMar> Shalom Rich

[20:26] <BobWestbrook> Hi Rich! Welcome once again!

[20:26] <EdenAli> G'day Rich

[20:26] <IMB-Seeker> Hi Rich

[20:26] <Rich_31> 7hi Lilly

[20:26] <Rich_31> 7hi Bez

[20:26] <lilycocoon> 5What emotion do you sense, Bob

[20:26] <MarvBMar> a woe is me, I'm all undone day

[20:26] <Rich_31> 7eden there you are

[20:26] <BobWestbrook> When God asked the question, I don't suppose it was in a flat, impassive tone

[20:27] <Bezalel3> 2:-), Rich

[20:27] <Rich_31> 7mmarion hello

[20:27] <MarvBMar> how are you Rich

[20:27] <Rich_31> 7Miller hi to you

[20:27] <tryChrist> i sense sorrow, yet eager anticipation for the Lord to show Ezek something

[20:27] <tryChrist> hey rich :)

[20:27] <BobWestbrook> But in a tone that He, with the ability to see the centuries yet to come, and the despair associated with them

[20:27] <Rich_31> 7good thanks Marion hope you are too

[20:28] <BobWestbrook> They aren't just bones after all, but the history of a people - HIS people

[20:28] <MarvBMar> I am Thanks

[20:28] <lilycocoon> 5Touching words Bob

[20:28] <Rich_31> 7very good Marion

[20:28] <EdenAli> He was asking Ezekiel a rhetorical question because He knew that Ezekiel believed that all things were possible for Him

[20:28] <BobWestbrook> Right, Eden

[20:29] <BobWestbrook> But rather than answer the question directly, God says:

[20:29] <BobWestbrook> (Ezekiel 37:4 NIV) Then he said to me, "Prophesy to these bones and say to them, 'Dry bones, hear the word of the LORD!

[20:29] vladdb [~vladdb@jproxy12.talkcity.com] has joined #IsraelMyBeloved

[20:29] <BobWestbrook> the Word of the Lord makes the difference between life and death, as we all have experienced

[20:29] <BobWestbrook> Welcome, Vladdb

[20:30] <vladdb> TY

[20:30] <Rich_31> 7hello vladdb

[20:30] <BobWestbrook> And it is to the bones themselves that His Word is directed

[20:30] <EdenAli> "The power ofGod is in His Word"

[20:30] <vladdb> HI RICH

[20:30] <MarvBMar> hi Vladd

[20:30] <BobWestbrook> I was reading a Jewish commentary on this verse earlier, and I think the insight here is fascinating - I'll quote:

[20:31] <vladdb> HI MARV

[20:31] <EdenAli> listening......

[20:31] SemperFiDex [~SemperFiDex@jproxy11.talkcity.com] has joined #IsraelMyBeloved

[20:31] <MarvBMar> It's Marion , Vladd

[20:31] <Bezalel3> 2Hi Dex

[20:31] <BobWestbrook> "Yechekel is to be the instrument through which the bones are infused with life"

[20:31] <SemperFiDex> 3Hi

[20:31] <vladdb> OH SORRY MARION

[20:31] <MarvBMar> hi Dex

[20:31] <Rich_31> 7finishing off a peice of banana cream pie

[20:31] <lilycocoon> 5What's Yechekel?

[20:32] <EdenAli> Ezekiel

[20:32] <BobWestbrook> "Because he was a righteous man, and the times required it, he was given the 'key' to the resurrection of the dead" (!!!)

[20:32] <lilycocoon> 5Thanks Eden

[20:32] <MarvBMar> thats ok I didn't want you to get confused later when you see everyone calling me marion

[20:32] <BobWestbrook> "which God normally reserves only for Himself"

[20:32] <tryChrist> is there a "bone" theme .... eve came from a rib ... bone of my bone ...

[20:32] <vladdb> OK

[20:33] <BobWestbrook> "According to Eliyahu Rabbah, Yechezkel's special merit was that he felt a special sense of identity with Israel"

[20:33] <BobWestbrook> "He made himself one with them"

[20:33] <EdenAli> ok, so God is showing Ezekiel this miracle so it can be recorded for later times?

[20:33] <BobWestbrook> End of quote

[20:33] <Rich_31> 7hello Dex

[20:34] <MarvBMar> one with them??>>

[20:34] <SemperFiDex> 3Hi Rich and Mar

[20:34] <BobWestbrook> Read back through that and you will see the Messianic symbolism there

[20:34] <BobWestbrook> Especially since Ezekiel was called "Son of Man"

[20:34] <Rich_31> 7didn't God put His Spirit in the bodies after He raised them Bob

[20:34] <EdenAli> ohh the one body of Christ

[20:34] <Rich_31> 7what does He mean by that Bob

[20:35] <BobWestbrook> Yes, Rich, we'll get to that shortly...

[20:35] <BobWestbrook> What, Rich?

[20:35] vladdb [~vladdb@jproxy12.talkcity.com] has left #IsraelMyBeloved

[20:35] <Rich_31> 7didn't mean to jump ahead

[20:35] <BobWestbrook> that's ok :)

[20:35] <IMB-Seeker> at this point there wasn't a dry bone in the house :)

[20:35] <BobWestbrook> "the key to resurrection" - who possesses that?

[20:35] <BobWestbrook> ooooooooooo Seeker :)

[20:35] <Bezalel3> 2:-p Seeker

[20:35] vladdb [~vladdb@jproxy12.talkcity.com] has joined #IsraelMyBeloved

[20:35] <EdenAli> Jesus

[20:35] <BobWestbrook> yes, Eden, the Son of Man

[20:36] <tryChrist> Yeshua!

[20:36] <Rich_31> 7our Lord

[20:36] <BobWestbrook> (Ezekiel 37:5-6 NIV) This is what the Sovereign LORD says to these bones: I will make breath enter you, and you will come to life. {6} I will attach tendons to you and make flesh come upon you and cover you with skin; I will put breath in you, and you will come to life. Then you will know that I am the LORD.'"

[20:36] <BobWestbrook> So God tells Ezekiel to talk to lifeless, inanimate objects

[20:36] <Rich_31> 7and he did

[20:37] <BobWestbrook> and something amazing will happen

[20:37] <BobWestbrook> And he did, and it is! :)

[20:37] vladdb [~vladdb@jproxy12.talkcity.com] has left #IsraelMyBeloved

[20:37] <MarvBMar> Jesus does

[20:37] <Rich_31> 7the whole of Israel

[20:37] <BobWestbrook> (Ezekiel 37:7-8 NIV) So I prophesied as I was commanded. And as I was prophesying, there was a noise, a rattling sound, and the bones came together, bone to bone. {8} I looked, and tendons and flesh appeared on them and skin covered them, but there was no breath in them.

[20:38] <Rich_31> 7weren't alive

[20:38] <EdenAli> lifeless without the Spirit

[20:38] <BobWestbrook> "A noise, a rattling sound" to me represents the emerging Zionistic activity of the late 1800s and early 1900s after many centuries

[20:38] <Rich_31> 7no mind in them

[20:38] <BobWestbrook> As we will see, there are several aspects to this process

[20:39] <Rich_31> 7might be

[20:39] <BobWestbrook> And there are many clues for the clueless in this chapter about exactly what its talking about

[20:39] <tryChrist> and that noise still continues?

[20:40] <Rich_31> 7yes it is Miller

[20:40] <BobWestbrook> Yes, Miller, I think it does - and notice, it is a 2 step process

[20:40] <BobWestbrook> Physical restoration, then spiritual

[20:40] <BobWestbrook> first, no life in these newly regenerated bodies

[20:40] <Rich_31> 7yep

[20:40] <MarvBMar> but useless without the Spirit

[20:40] <tryChrist> all the more to be in support of the returning tribes

[20:40] <Bezalel3> 2Like a secular Israel?

[20:40] <BobWestbrook> Which is symbolic of where Israel is today

[20:40] <EdenAli> the way the Lord always dealt with Israel

[20:40] <Rich_31> 7just dust huh

[20:41] <BobWestbrook> Exactly

[20:41] <BobWestbrook> As we have seen many other times, the full restoration of Israel will occur when His Spirit is "infused from on High"

[20:42] <Rich_31> 7the very Mind of God I think

[20:42] <IMB-Seeker> Once again, I must leave early. It is good to fellowship with all of you. Goodnight

[20:42] <INAMINUTE50> when will that be..Bob

[20:42] <Bezalel3> 2Breathing into them the Spirit....

[20:42] <Bezalel3> 2Night, Allyn

[20:42] <SemperFiDex> 3night seeker

[20:42] <Rich_31> 7night Seeker God Bless ya

[20:42] <EdenAli> its just getting good Seeker

[20:42] <BobWestbrook> I got an email recently from a misguided sort who proceeded to inform me that the Israel of today is not the one God describes in the Bible, because they don't have faith

[20:42] <MarvBMar> Israel is Night seeker

[20:42] <IMB-Seeker> I will read the Log Eden. Night

[20:42] <tryChrist> Seeker, take care, and keep Him in mind before all things :)

[20:42] <BobWestbrook> But this chapter outlines the plan, the 2 step process

[20:42] <MarvBMar> I won't see you friday

[20:43] <MarvBMar> I am goint to AZ

[20:43] <IMB-Seeker> Ok Marion

[20:43] <SemperFiDex> 3That would make them the very ones God described.

[20:43] IMB-Seeker [~IMB-Seeker@jproxy15.talkcity.com] has quit IRC (IMB-Seeker has left the room)

[20:43] <EdenAli> Shalom Seeker

[20:43] <BobWestbrook> Which is one reason why we Christians should support Israel - not because of what they are today necessarily, but what they will be

[20:43] <MarvBMar> But they can become it

[20:43] <MarvBMar> They must be born again

[20:43] <Rich_31> 7and where our Lord will rein from Bob

[20:43] <lilycocoon> 5Agree, Bob

[20:44] <BobWestbrook> Can and will

[20:44] <MarvBMar> like the dry bones coming to life

[20:44] <BobWestbrook> Yes, Marv

[20:44] <MarvBMar> as Jesus said to Nicodemus

[20:44] <BobWestbrook> (Ezekiel 37:9-10 NIV) Then he said to me, "Prophesy to the breath; prophesy, son of man, and say to it, 'This is what the Sovereign LORD says: Come from the four winds, O breath, and breathe into these slain, that they may live.'" {10} So I prophesied as he commanded me, and breath entered them; they came to life and stood up on their feet--a vast army.

[20:44] <EdenAli> Yes Bob I agree

[20:44] <BobWestbrook> Spiritual regeneration

[20:45] <Rich_31> 7His people

[20:45] <BobWestbrook> Just as certain as was the physical regeneration (the return to the land) that we've already seen

[20:45] <lilycocoon> 5Can they have the Life/breath of God/Holy Spirit if they don't believe in Jesus as their Messiah Who left the Hold Spirit to the believers?

[20:45] <MarvBMar> as we look at Israel we should be walking among them praying for their new birth

[20:46] <tryChrist> 2 step, though... return to the land and I will facilitate your understanding

[20:46] <BobWestbrook> No, Lily, but that's what is going to happen

[20:46] <EdenAli> This is a real revelation never saw this aspect of Eze 37 before just thought it was the regeneration of the lost tribes

[20:46] <BobWestbrook> Now to give us some context, the Lord explains it to Ezekiel

[20:46] <Rich_31> 7all Israel Eden

[20:46] <BobWestbrook> (Ezekiel 37:11 NIV) Then he said to me: "Son of man, these bones are the whole house of Israel. They say, 'Our bones are dried up and our hope is gone; we are cut off.'

[20:47] <MarvBMar> no only through Jesus can anyone receive salvation

[20:47] <BobWestbrook> The Lord, looking ahead over the centuries, sees the despair of the Jewish people who have been in exile for a long long time

[20:47] <Rich_31> 7right Marion

[20:47] <EdenAli> Marv I believe they will acknowledge Jesus as their Messiah

[20:47] <BobWestbrook> and He hears what they say

[20:47] <lilycocoon> 5That was a rhetorical question

[20:48] <INAMINUTE50> so if a non-believing jew dies nw...would he have the same fate as a non-believing gentile

[20:48] <MarvBMar> I do too eden

[20:48] <tryChrist> as today, a small land surrounded by enemies

[20:48] <BobWestbrook> Those questions are clearly answered in the Bible

[20:48] <BobWestbrook> (1 John 5:11-12 NIV) And this is the testimony: God has given us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. {12} He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life.

[20:49] <BobWestbrook> But life in the Son will come to Israel

[20:49] <EdenAli> yes!

[20:49] <Rich_31> 7I must leave ya'all too night everyone and may God Bless each and everyone of you

[20:49] <Bezalel3> 2And the breath of life will come from the four winds....

[20:49] <MarvBMar> I am the way, the truth & the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.

[20:49] <Bezalel3> 2Night Rich.

[20:49] <BobWestbrook> Night Rich - good to see you again

[20:49] <tryChrist> certainly that time is coming when all will see and know He is Lord!

[20:49] <lilycocoon> 5Do you think they will continue to have the "hope is gone" and "cut off" feelings till the Breath of God comes into them?

[20:49] <SemperFiDex> 3Night Rich

[20:49] <MarvBMar> nite Rich

[20:50] <Rich_31> 7very good for me too Bob love ya's all too

[20:50] <tryChrist> Night Rich, keep looking up

[20:50] <EdenAli> When Israel is surrounded by all the nations and there is no hope then they will call on their Messiah (Jesus) to save them

[20:50] <BobWestbrook> Good question Lily

[20:50] <Rich_31> 7yep

[20:50] Rich_31 [~Rich_31@jproxy11.talkcity.com] has quit IRC (Lost Connection 233)

[20:50] <INAMINUTE50> i know we are in the dispensation of grace..but I was wondering if that applied to Gods chosen

[20:50] <BobWestbrook> Certainly there is a sense of despair in Israel today

[20:51] <BobWestbrook> and yes, as we know, there is no hope without the Lord

[20:51] <INAMINUTE50> for all..then

[20:51] <MarvBMar> Lily I hear many say that the are losing hope because their hope is not in God but in their selves

[20:51] <BobWestbrook> So obviously the return to the land by itself is incomplete, just as the bodies neatly arrayed but with no breath

[20:52] <BobWestbrook> (Ezekiel 37:14 NIV) I will put my Spirit in you and you will live, and I will settle you in your own land. Then you will know that I the LORD have spoken, and I have done it, declares the LORD.'"

[20:52] <INAMINUTE50> right

[20:52] <tryChrist> so the "breath" would come in what time frame? prophecy?

[20:53] <BobWestbrook> Well, I suppose the "breath" is an ongoing process, even now increasingly stirring

[20:53] <BobWestbrook> But we do anticipate some kind of mass regeneration at some point, a coming to faith of large numbers

[20:53] <lilycocoon> 5Are you talking about the increase in Messianic Jews?

[20:53] <BobWestbrook> Yes

[20:53] <tryChrist> yes, there are more and more coming to the knowledge of Yeshua

[20:53] <MarvBMar> yes there are many believers in Yeshua in israel now & all over

[20:53] <INAMINUTE50> Bob do you believe in the "rapture" of the Church?

[20:54] <BobWestbrook> It's no secret that many more Jewish people are coming to faith in Jesus now than ever before

[20:54] <BobWestbrook> Sure do, Ina, there will be a rapture, it's the when question that is debated :)

[20:54] <tryChrist> Baruch H'shem to all who come to Him !!!

[20:54] <MarvBMar> when the 144,000 witness

[20:54] <INAMINUTE50> right...I know...LOL

[20:54] <MarvBMar> & the 2 witnesses of revelations

[20:54] <BobWestbrook> :)

[20:54] <EdenAli> Bob the mass regeneration could occur when they are surrounded by all the nations, (CH vs?)

[20:55] <BobWestbrook> When will the mass regeneration occur? Good question

[20:56] <BobWestbrook> I don't know the answer, but am rather certain it will happen before the coming of the Lord, because it is stated as a prerequisite of His return

[20:56] <tryChrist> the events that surround the "great" tribulation would certainly get my attention and turn me to dig deeper into scripture

[20:56] <EdenAli> Couldn't the mass calling out to be saved be the cause of Jesus's return?

[20:57] <tryChrist> the Torah itself is full of the prophecies

[20:57] <MarvBMar> no the battle is

[20:57] <BobWestbrook> I don't think we can present any kind of airtight scenario on that, really

[20:58] <INAMINUTE50> is there many Christian Arabs...does anyone now?

[20:58] <tryChrist> "You will not see Me again, until you say, Baruch H'ba B'shem Adonai

[20:58] <MarvBMar> there are some in Israel

[20:58] <EdenAli> ok, just an idea, after digging I thought that could happen :-)

[20:58] <MarvBMar> and all over

[20:58] <BobWestbrook> I tend to believe it will be 2 years into the seven year "seventyth week" of Daniel

[20:58] <Bezalel3> 2Lebanon used to be a Christian nation.

[20:58] <INAMINUTE50> ok thanks Marv

[20:59] <MarvBMar> infact a muslim women accepted the Lord ofer last weekend

[20:59] <INAMINUTE50> wow...unbeievable

[20:59] <Bezalel3> 2Why two years, Bob?

[21:00] <BobWestbrook> Because, in the highly symbolic story of Joseph and his brothers, it was after 2 years of the final seven year "tribulation" period that Joseph revealed his true idenity to his long-estranged brothers

[21:00] <Bezalel3> 2What event do you see at that point?

[21:00] <EdenAli> could you share the scriptures that led you to think that Bob?

[21:00] <Bezalel3> 2k, makes sense....

[21:00] <BobWestbrook> that it is a prerequisite? sure :)

[21:00] <INAMINUTE50> thats symbolic...yes

[21:01] <INAMINUTE50> numbers are fascinating in the Bible

[21:01] <EdenAli> only wanting to learn didn't mean to put you on the spot, sorry

[21:01] <MarvBMar> Bob Jesus is coming to claim His people it can't be only 2 years into the trib.

[21:01] <BobWestbrook> Perhaps the most straightforward is Peter's sermon to the Jews when he tells them when the "times of refreshing" will occur

[21:01] <BobWestbrook> (Acts 3:19-21 NIV) Repent, then, and turn to God, so that your sins may be wiped out, that times of refreshing may come from the Lord, {20} and that he may send the Christ, who has been appointed for you--even Jesus. {21} He must remain in heaven until the time comes for God to restore everything, as he promised long ago through his holy prophets.

[21:02] <BobWestbrook> "that he may send the Messiah" - what has to happen first?

[21:02] <BobWestbrook> Mass repentance of the Jewish people

[21:02] <MarvBMar> all hear rhe gospel

[21:02] <lilycocoon> 5sins wiped our and times of refreshing?

[21:02] <BobWestbrook> He must remain until heaven until then

[21:02] <Bezalel3> 2So that their sins may be wiped out.

[21:02] <EdenAli> the restoration and regeneration of the Jews

[21:02] <BobWestbrook> Right, eden

[21:03] <MarvBMar> accept it too

[21:03] <INAMINUTE50> we will meet Jesus in the air...

[21:03] <BobWestbrook> This verse kind of pooh-poohs the pre-trib rapture viewpoint as well - "He must remain in heaven until...."

[21:03] <BobWestbrook> Until when?

[21:04] <BobWestbrook> Until all enemies have been put under his feet

[21:04] <INAMINUTE50> at his return he will step on the Mt of Olives

[21:04] <Bezalel3> 2Restoration...

[21:04] <MarvBMar> if everything is good for the first 3 years during the trib. they will not yet turn to God

[21:04] <EdenAli> wow, another revelation! I am glad I came on today

[21:04] <lilycocoon> 5Bob - had a thought - could the 4 winds coming to Israel be Spirit filled Christians coming to their "adopted" family of God and sharing the Gospel of Jesus?

[21:04] <MarvBMar> They will be looking at the anti-christ

[21:04] <BobWestbrook> Good thought, Lily :)

[21:05] <BobWestbrook> This verse also tell us that Jesus will remain in heaven "until"...

[21:05] <BobWestbrook> (Psalms 110:1 NIV) Of David. A psalm. The LORD says to my Lord: "Sit at my right hand until I make your enemies a footstool for your feet."

[21:05] <MarvBMar> Lily they are already dioing that

[21:05] <BobWestbrook> Only until the Father has smushed all the enemies of the Son will He return

[21:05] <EdenAli> until the Chosen have chosen

[21:06] <BobWestbrook> Not pre-trib :) (sorry for you pre-tribbers out there) :)

[21:06] <MarvBMar> I like that eden!!

[21:06] <INAMINUTE50> God has not appointed us to wrath

[21:06] <MarvBMar> I am going on the first load...I will way to you

[21:06] <lilycocoon> 5Another thought - If there is a connection between Jesus' return to rapture His own and the Feast of Tabernacles, that chapter says Jesus waited till the middle of the feast to go to Jerusalem.

[21:06] <INAMINUTE50> tribulation sounds like wrath to me

[21:07] <BobWestbrook> ok :)

[21:07] <INAMINUTE50> lol

[21:07] <MarvBMar> wave

[21:07] <tryChrist> th ew rath of G-d doesnot commence at the beginning of the so called 7 year tribulation

[21:07] <MarvBMar> to me also minute

[21:07] <BobWestbrook> Did everyone understand the Peter quote in Acts?

[21:07] <lilycocoon> 5in John 7

[21:08] <EdenAli> the wrath part is in the last 3 1/2 years

[21:08] <EdenAli> yes

[21:08] <SemperFiDex> 3I think that Revelation 11/13 may mark the beginning of the mass conversion

[21:08] <BobWestbrook> That the Father will only send the Messiah again after the Jewish people once again turn to God

[21:08] <lilycocoon> 5Think so Bob

[21:09] <tryChrist> post Matt 10:23

[21:09] <EdenAli> yup :-)

[21:09] MarvBMar986 [~MarvBMar@jproxy16.talkcity.com] has joined #IsraelMyBeloved

[21:10] <INAMINUTE50> did screen freeze?

[21:10] <lilycocoon> 5not for me ina

[21:10] <BobWestbrook> (Matthew 10:18 NIV) On my account you will be brought before governors and kings as witnesses to them and to the Gentiles.

[21:10] <BobWestbrook> (Matthew 10:22-23 NIV) All men will hate you because of me, but he who stands firm to the end will be saved. {23} When you are persecuted in one place, flee to another. I tell you the truth, you will not finish going through the cities of Israel before the Son of Man comes.

[21:10] MarvBMar [~MarvBMar@jproxy11.talkcity.com] has quit IRC (MarvBMar)

[21:10] <SemperFiDex> 3Revelation 11:13 And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven

[21:10] <MarvBMar986> I got disconnected

[21:10] <Bezalel3> 2wb marion

[21:11] <BobWestbrook> This is Jesus speaking to his disciples about what they would face as they proclaimed the Good News of Messiah

[21:11] <EdenAli> does this refer to us as well?

[21:11] <lilycocoon> 5This is when - after the 2 years you said earlier?

[21:11] <SemperFiDex> 3no he is speaking to future Israel about her persecution during the tribulation

[21:12] <BobWestbrook> I posted that because Miller asked me to :)

[21:13] <INAMINUTE50> better to believe now....then later!!!

[21:13] <BobWestbrook> Jesus was speaking to His followers as He sent them out

[21:13] <EdenAli> Bob? Matt 10 22-23 refers to us as well?

[21:13] <BobWestbrook> and by extension, to all who would be sent out with that Message in the future

[21:14] <EdenAli> ok thanks thought I had that wrong all these years LOL

[21:14] <lilycocoon> 5So this first part of Ezek is to encourage us to look and pray for what God is going to do with Israel spiritually reguardless of how Godless the news of Israel sounds at times?

[21:14] <BobWestbrook> yes, Lily, that's a good summary

[21:14] <tryChrist> 4For I say to you, from now on you will not see Me until you say, "blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord"

[21:14] <tryChrist> 4Matt 23:39

[21:15] <BobWestbrook> And here's another "you will not see me until" verse

[21:15] <BobWestbrook> From Hosea - I'll give you the verse and then we'll examine the larger context

[21:15] <EdenAli> The events of Ezekiel 37 are like a to do list before the return of the Messiah

[21:16] <BobWestbrook> (Hosea 5:15 NIV) Then I will go back to my place until they admit their guilt. And they will seek my face; in their misery they will earnestly seek me."

[21:16] <INAMINUTE50> Hubby is calling...God Bless All...see ya....here...there...or in the air!

[21:16] INAMINUTE50 [~INAMINUTE50@jproxy14.talkcity.com] has left #IsraelMyBeloved

[21:16] <MarvBMar986> Jesus is referring to Jeruselem here & the Jews

[21:16] <BobWestbrook> Right, Eden, in fact, not just 37, but all of the chapters we've been examining

[21:16] <EdenAli> Shalom ina

[21:16] <EdenAli> yup

[21:16] <lilycocoon> 5Blessings Ina

[21:17] <tryChrist> 4and so they are beginning more and more to seek Him... in tribulation we all tend to seek Him :)

[21:17] <lilycocoon> 5Like USa after 911

[21:18] <EdenAli> oh yes Try always in adversity do we wear out our knees!

[21:18] <tryChrist> 41Wasn't it Paul who praised God for his tribulations

[21:18] <BobWestbrook> Here is that verse from a Jewish translation (JPS)

[21:18] MarvBMar547 [~MarvBMar986@jproxy13.talkcity.com] has joined #IsraelMyBeloved

[21:18] <Bezalel3> 2wb marion

[21:19] <EdenAli> Paul did as well, he welcomed adversity because it perfected him

[21:19] <MarvBMar547> thanks Bez

[21:19] <lilycocoon> 5James says to Count it all JOY

[21:19] <BobWestbrook> "And I will return to my abode, till they realize their guilt. In their distress, they will seek Me, and beg for My favor"

[21:20] <EdenAli> sooooooo we cant go till they choose!

[21:20] <MarvBMar547> I domn't see it that way...but I will be quiet

[21:21] <BobWestbrook> We'll go whenever we are supposed to go, I guess :)

[21:21] <Bezalel3> 2Yes, Ali, but don't forget we're going to be grafted into their convenant.....

[21:21] <BobWestbrook> You needn't be quiet, Marion :)

[21:21] MarvBMar986 [~MarvBMar@jproxy16.talkcity.com] has quit IRC (MarvBMar986)

[21:21] <tryChrist> and so we endure crying out to Him. Impatiently for those whom have little faith, patiently for those who have much, but needless to say, the act of crying out to Him is the act to which we find grace

[21:21] <MarvBMar547> good answer Bob

[21:21] <EdenAli> Bob :-)

[21:21] <BobWestbrook> Yes, Miller, well put

[21:22] <MarvBMar547> I mean about when we go

[21:22] <SemperFiDex> 3Bez. I think if you

[21:22] <SemperFiDex> 3you're saved then you're already grafted in

[21:22] <EdenAli> what does the Latin mean SemperFiDex?

[21:22] <MarvBMar547> no we are saved & then grafted in

[21:23] <BobWestbrook> to me "when we go" is not as important a question as many make it - it's not about us, of course :)

[21:23] <MarvBMar547> because of Jesus

[21:23] <SemperFiDex> 3Always Faithful. It's also the Marine Corps Motto.

[21:23] <Bezalel3> 2Another timing issue....:-)

[21:23] <tryChrist> I must be off, as always, educational and a blessing. Thanks Bob.

[21:23] <BobWestbrook> and it's a preoccupation with "us" that makes the rapture debate so heated

[21:23] <Bezalel3> 2Night Miller.

[21:23] <BobWestbrook> See ya Miller! Thanks!

[21:23] <MarvBMar547> nite miller Blessings

[21:24] <EdenAli> thanks Semper

[21:24] <EdenAli> Shalom Miller

[21:24] <MarvBMar547> For me it's all in His hands

[21:24] <lilycocoon> 5Blessings Miller

[21:24] <SemperFiDex> 3God Bless Miller.

[21:24] <tryChrist> Peace all, and keep the faith, this world is fleeting and enternity is forever. Trust in Him and all things will come to His peace.

[21:24] <SemperFiDex> 3Sure Eden

[21:24] tryChrist [~tryChrist@jproxy16.talkcity.com] has quit IRC (tryChrist has left the room)

[21:25] <lilycocoon> 5I try to focus on being obedient so I will have my lamp lit with lots of oil in it

[21:25] <BobWestbrook> We are all here to serve at His bidding, so when people say "God wouldn't do this or that" they perhaps misunderstand the greater purposes

[21:25] <Bezalel3> 2LOL

[21:25] <EdenAli> its just terrible sibling rivalry isn't it Bob

[21:25] <BobWestbrook> yeah :)

[21:26] <lilycocoon> 5between who, Eden - I think I missed something

[21:26] <EdenAli> The Chosen and us

[21:26] <MarvBMar547> we are chosen also

[21:27] <EdenAli> alright the Jews and us

[21:27] <MarvBMar547> so there shouldn't be any rivalry

[21:27] <MarvBMar547> hehehe

[21:27] <MarvBMar547> still shouldn't be

[21:28] <BobWestbrook> OK, where do we go now? The rest of the chapter?

[21:28] <EdenAli> was justlooking at Bob's point about us being worried about the rapture instead of looking at the bigger picture

[21:28] <lilycocoon> 5I think of sibling rivalry more between the Arabs and Israel then between the Christians and Israel. It seems recently at least the Israelis are much more open to the friendship with Christians and not focusing on our doctinal differences.

[21:28] <MarvBMar547> I agree lily

[21:28] <lilycocoon> 5I could be wrong!

[21:29] <lilycocoon> 5I'm willing to go on Bob - this is so interesting!

[21:29] <Bezalel3> 2Yeah, Sue, Jacob and Esau.....now there was a sibling rivalry.

[21:29] <BobWestbrook> We will see, I believe, Christians and Jews coming together in unprecedented ways

[21:29] <BobWestbrook> we are already seeing the beginning of that

[21:29] <MarvBMar547> I think we will all be surprised when we get to heaven when it comes to the things that divide us

[21:30] <BobWestbrook> I'm not talking theologically of course, but coming together in a common cause despite our differing viewpoints

[21:30] <MarvBMar547> don't forget Cain & Abel

[21:30] <EdenAli> hmm some of us will have to have the flesh burned off in His refining fire

[21:30] <MarvBMar547> & Ishmael & Issaic

[21:31] <BobWestbrook> And ultimately, in the context of the culmination of the prophecies under the reign of Messiah, there will not be 2 different groups called "Christians" and "Jews"

[21:31] <MarvBMar547> right

[21:31] <Bezalel3> 2Just believers....???

[21:31] <BobWestbrook> (John 10:14-16 NIV) "I am the good shepherd; I know my sheep and my sheep know me-- {15} just as the Father knows me and I know the Father--and I lay down my life for the sheep. {16} I have other sheep that are not of this sheep pen. I must bring them also. They too will listen to my voice, and there shall be one flock and one shepherd.

[21:31] <MarvBMar547> just the saints

[21:31] <BobWestbrook> One flock, one shepherd

[21:31] <EdenAli> yes

[21:31] <MarvBMar547> lower case s

[21:32] <lilycocoon> 5Just HIS!

[21:32] <MarvBMar547> amen

[21:32] <BobWestbrook> we gentiles are the "other sheep" that Jesus referred to

[21:32] <EdenAli> yes

[21:32] <BobWestbrook> The Jews are the "primary" sheep, if you will

[21:32] <MarvBMar547> I guess the muslims think it is them

[21:33] <lilycocoon> 5Grafted in and adopted are beautiful pictures of us as believers coming into HIS family

[21:33] <Bezalel3> 2 1As a prisoner for the Lord, then, I urge you to live a life worthy of the calling you have received. 2Be completely humble and gentle; be patient, bearing with one another in love. 3Make every effort to keep the unity of the Spirit through the bond of peace. 4There is one body and one Spirit--just as you were called to one hope when you were called-- 5one Lord, one faith, one baptism; 6one God and Father of all, who is over all and th

[21:33] <EdenAli> The muslims believe in the false god of allah not our God

[21:34] <BobWestbrook> One Lord, one faith, one God, and ultimately, one flock

[21:34] <BobWestbrook> Right, Eden

[21:34] <MarvBMar547> I agree eden but just commenting on what they say

[21:34] <BobWestbrook> Which leads us to the rest of the chapter 37

[21:34] <lilycocoon> 5Yes Bob

[21:34] <BobWestbrook> (Ezekiel 37:15-17 NIV) The word of the LORD came to me: {16} "Son of man, take a stick of wood and write on it, 'Belonging to Judah and the Israelites associated with him.' Then take another stick of wood, and write on it, 'Ephraim's stick, belonging to Joseph and all the house of Israel associated with him.' {17} Join them together into one stick so that they will become one in your hand.

[21:35] <lilycocoon> 5Who is currently Judah and who is Ephraim

[21:36] <BobWestbrook> This literally is speaking of all the tribes of Israel coming together as one, but symbolically it may be speaking of the "one flock" Jesus referred to

[21:36] <lilycocoon> 5I like that Bob

[21:36] <EdenAli> could be both

[21:37] <BobWestbrook> Judah literally comes from the southern Kingdom, the two tribes given to Solomon's descendants after the kingdom was ripped in two

[21:37] <lilycocoon> 5Ephraim was also "adopted" into Jacob's family

[21:37] <BobWestbrook> and Ephraim is literally the so-called "10 lost tribes" - which are not lost at all

[21:37] <lilycocoon> 5Jacob/Israel and had an un-Jewish mother

[21:38] <EdenAli> so Ephraim could be us?

[21:38] <BobWestbrook> All twelve tribes remained until Jesus day at least, the idea that somehow these "lost tribes" will be discovered is a myth

[21:38] <MarvBMar547> good thought Lily

[21:38] <BobWestbrook> Not literally, but symbolically, yes

[21:39] <BobWestbrook> There are some today who teach that Christians are literal, physical descendants of Ephraim, and that's just plain ridiculous

[21:39] <lilycocoon> 5Bob - do they know that they are the "lost tribes"?

[21:39] <BobWestbrook> There are no lost tribes, and I can prove it :)

[21:39] <EdenAli> I had a Jewish great grand mother, but my family has always been Christian

[21:40] EagleShield [~EagleShield@jproxy13.talkcity.com] has joined #IsraelMyBeloved

[21:40] <lilycocoon> 5I guess I really meant - do any of them really know they belong to a certain tribe?

[21:40] <Bezalel3> 2Hi Delta.....:)

[21:40] <BobWestbrook> James, writing to the early Jewish Christians, said this:

[21:40] <BobWestbrook> (James 1:1 NIV) James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, To the twelve tribes scattered among the nations: Greetings.

[21:40] <MarvBMar547> where did the idea of lost tribes come from

[21:40] <EagleShield> :-)

[21:40] <BobWestbrook> Hi Delta!

[21:41] <EagleShield> Shalom!

[21:41] <MarvBMar547> hi Delta

[21:41] <lilycocoon> 5Blessings Delta

[21:41] <EdenAli> Shalom Delta

[21:41] <lilycocoon> 5Not lost - scattered

[21:41] <EagleShield> (puter being weird, pray for it!) :-)

[21:41] <MarvBMar547> scattered doesn't mean lost

[21:41] <EagleShield> I'm not lost

[21:41] <EagleShield> :-)

[21:41] <BobWestbrook> And Paul, making his defense before King Aggripa, said this:

[21:41] <BobWestbrook> (Acts 26:6-7 NIV) And now it is because of my hope in what God has promised our fathers that I am on trial today. {7} This is the promise our twelve tribes are hoping to see fulfilled as they earnestly serve God day and night. O king, it is because of this hope that the Jews are accusing me.

[21:42] <lilycocoon> 5Who said they were lost in the first place?

[21:42] <BobWestbrook> "our twelve tribes" - spoken in present tense, centuries after the Assyrian exile

[21:42] <BobWestbrook> Many people today say that

[21:42] <EagleShield> Excuse the late person, but what is the "hope" Paul is speaking of?

[21:42] <MarvBMar547> just wondered where that started

[21:43] <lilycocoon> 5kThanks Bob

[21:43] <BobWestbrook> Very good question, Delta!

[21:43] <EagleShield> :-) I get the brownie point?

[21:43] <BobWestbrook> (Acts 26:8 NIV) Why should any of you consider it incredible that God raises the dead?

[21:43] <BobWestbrook> Yes :)

[21:43] <EdenAli> Then why dont they know their tribes?

[21:43] <lilycocoon> 5Great tie in to Ezek 37!

[21:43] <BobWestbrook> The hope, is the same hope dimly alluded to in Ezekiel 37 - resurrection, spiritual regeneration

[21:43] <BobWestbrook> Yes, Lily :)

[21:44] <EagleShield> Seeing His Face...AND holding His Hand

[21:44] <EagleShield> (hey, I'm greedy sometimes)

[21:44] <BobWestbrook> Paul saw them as one and the same - it was not some new sect, but just the natural extension of what Jews had hoped and believed for a long time

[21:44] <lilycocoon> 5Y:es!

[21:44] <BobWestbrook> and Jesus was the embodiment of it - He was Himself the resurrection

[21:45] <EdenAli> ok I seeeee

[21:45] <BobWestbrook> The promise of the Jewish prophets fulfilled

[21:45] <EagleShield> But Paul had a hard time accepting this in the beginning, didn't he, Bob?

[21:45] <BobWestbrook> Of course, till he got bopped on the head :)

[21:45] <BobWestbrook> Oy Vey!

[21:45] <EdenAli> when he was Saul u mean?

[21:45] <BobWestbrook> It's Yeshua!

[21:45] <EagleShield> Yeah.

[21:46] <BobWestbrook> :)

[21:46] <lilycocoon> 5He rose Lazarus from the dead, then He was resurrected fromthe dead and also many rose from their graves at His death - Resurrection surrounded His death and resurrection

[21:46] <EagleShield> So, it's not hard to understand why now after all the persecution, it's even hard for the Jewish people today to accept this, is it?

[21:46] <EdenAli> Paul was just being a good Jewish boy:-)

[21:46] <EagleShield> (Did I say that write?)

[21:46] <EagleShield> oops right?

[21:46] <BobWestbrook> No, not hard to understand

[21:47] <EagleShield> Wow, Sue/Dick, that was good!

[21:47] <BobWestbrook> Later in his speech to Agrippa, Paul says:

[21:47] <BobWestbrook> (Acts 26:22-23 NIV) But I have had God's help to this very day, and so I stand here and testify to small and great alike. I am saying nothing beyond what the prophets and Moses said would happen-- {23} that the Christ would suffer and, as the first to rise from the dead, would proclaim light to his own people and to the Gentiles."

[21:48] <EagleShield> Hallelujah!

[21:48] <BobWestbrook> The Torah itself declared that Messiah would suffer and rise from the dead

[21:48] <EdenAli> Amen

[21:48] <BobWestbrook> And that is the hope of the Jews, and the hope of all who believe

[21:48] <EagleShield> \0/

[21:49] <EdenAli> the Jews were led by tradition and not the Spirit so they missed the message of Jesus

[21:49] <EagleShield> I think Paul puts many Christians today, even, to shame

[21:49] MarvBMar821 [~MarvBMar547@jproxy11.talkcity.com] has joined #IsraelMyBeloved

[21:49] <EagleShield> Eden, not all missed it...or the church would not have been started. :-) The first "Christians" were Jews!

[21:49] <EagleShield> :-) :-)

[21:49] <MarvBMar821> there must be a storm on the airwaves

[21:49] <BobWestbrook> Not some strange new teaching, but the inevitable extension of the message of the Torah

[21:49] <EdenAli> most did I mean

[21:50] <EagleShield> ((((Eden))))

[21:50] <Bezalel3> 2Inevitable and eternal, huh, Bob?

[21:50] <EdenAli> oh Bob that is so good, wow, I've learned a lot today

[21:50] <BobWestbrook> Great! :)

[21:50] <BobWestbrook> (Acts 26:22-23 NIV) But I have had God's help to this very day, and so I stand here and testify to small and great alike. I am saying nothing beyond what the prophets and Moses said would happen-- {23} that the Christ would suffer and, as the first to rise from the dead, would proclaim light to his own people and to the Gentiles."

[21:50] <BobWestbrook> oops

[21:51] <BobWestbrook> (Ezekiel 37:21 NIV) and say to them, 'This is what the Sovereign LORD says: I will take the Israelites out of the nations where they have gone. I will gather them from all around and bring them back into their own land.

[21:51] <EagleShield> Yeah G-d!

[21:51] <BobWestbrook> OK, so in this summary, we see that the "bringing back" to the land, and the reign of the King are in the same act of the play :)

[21:51] <BobWestbrook> (Ezekiel 37:22 NIV) I will make them one nation in the land, on the mountains of Israel. There will be one king over all of them and they will never again be two nations or be divided into two kingdoms.

[21:52] <BobWestbrook> An act in which we find ourselves smack in the middle :)

[21:52] <EagleShield> There goes the idea of a "palestinian state"!

[21:52] <BobWestbrook> (Ezekiel 37:23-24 NIV) They will no longer defile themselves with their idols and vile images or with any of their offenses, for I will save them from all their sinful backsliding, and I will cleanse them. They will be my people, and I will be their God. {24} "'My servant David will be king over them, and they will all have one shepherd. They will follow my laws and be careful to keep my decrees.

[21:52] <EdenAli> we have starring roles:-)

[21:52] <EagleShield> :->

[21:52] <BobWestbrook> You got it, Eden!

[21:52] <EagleShield> "servant David" being Yeshua/Jesus?

[21:53] <BobWestbrook> because we all play a role in this process

[21:53] <EdenAli> yes indeed

[21:53] <lilycocoon> 5We are here "for such a time as this!"

[21:53] <EagleShield> :-0

[21:53] <BobWestbrook> A little here, a little there, and it mixes into one wonderful mixture :)

[21:53] <EagleShield> oops

[21:53] <EagleShield> :-)

[21:53] MarvBMar547 [~MarvBMar986@jproxy13.talkcity.com] has quit IRC (Timeout)

[21:54] <EdenAli> mashed potatoes :-)

[21:54] <EagleShield> LOL Eden!

[21:54] <BobWestbrook> The last words are words of reassurance for Israel:

[21:54] <BobWestbrook> (Ezekiel 37:26 NIV) I will make a covenant of peace with them; it will be an everlasting covenant. I will establish them and increase their numbers, and I will put my sanctuary among them forever.

[21:54] <BobWestbrook> (Ezekiel 37:27-28 NIV) My dwelling place will be with them; I will be their God, and they will be my people. {28} Then the nations will know that I the LORD make Israel holy, when my sanctuary is among them forever.'"

[21:54] <EagleShield> wow

[21:55] <lilycocoon> 5AMEN!!

[21:55] <EdenAli> The end of Rev.

[21:55] <BobWestbrook> This is the "times of refreshing" that Peter later referred to

[21:55] <BobWestbrook> as a good Jewish boy, he was well acquainted with these prophecies

[21:55] <EagleShield> Would that G-d make all of us holy......in such a tangible way! awesome!

[21:56] <EdenAli> wouldn't like to have his "cup" though

[21:56] <BobWestbrook> He has, Delta, already - the atonement has done that for us

[21:56] <lilycocoon> 5And the more horrific the conditions in Israel, the more refreshing these promises appear

[21:56] <EagleShield> I wonder, Eden, if we won't have some "cups" of our own to deal with

[21:56] <BobWestbrook> Right, Lily!

[21:57] <EagleShield> Yes, Bob.

[21:57] <EdenAli> yes I know

[21:57] <BobWestbrook> May Israel sieze upon these words, and rediscover the hope of the ages

[21:57] <EagleShield> Isn't it odd that tragedy to people seems to save the nation?

[21:57] <EagleShield> amen, Bob.

[21:57] <MarvBMar821> Amen , Bob

[21:58] <EdenAli> Israel never listened otherwise Delta

[21:58] <MarvBMar821> because of their stiff necks

[21:58] <EagleShield> Eden, I think that depended on their leader

[21:58] <Bezalel3> 2They will, God has promised it....

[21:58] <EagleShield> Deborah, David, etc

[21:58] <SemperFiDex> 3gotta go. good night and God Bless ya'll

[21:58] <BobWestbrook> Well, this has been a wonderful time - thank you Holy Spirit for leading this chat!

[21:58] <MarvBMar821> they all have a free will as we do

[21:58] SemperFiDex [~SemperFiDex@jproxy11.talkcity.com] has quit IRC (SemperFiDex has left the room)

[21:58] <EagleShield> Shalom Semper

[21:58] <EdenAli> uh huh the priest didn't tell me

[21:58] <BobWestbrook> Love you all - Gotta go for now :)

[21:59] <Bezalel3> 2Night Dex....good to see you again..

[21:59] <EagleShield> Shalom Bob

[21:59] <MarvBMar821> shalom Dex

[21:59] <EagleShield> :-)

[21:59] <Bezalel3> 2Night Bob, thanks for the wonderful insight into some confusing prophesy.

[21:59] <BobWestbrook> Shalom, and pray that Israel begins to understand these promises :)

[21:59] <EagleShield> Eden, I don't know that that is an excuse, but in some cases it is a valid reason.

[21:59] <EdenAli> Shalom Bob and thank you

[21:59] <EagleShield> Not just for Israel, but all us.

[21:59] <BobWestbrook> My pleasure, folks :)

[21:59] lilycocoon [~lilycocoon@jproxy15.talkcity.com] has quit IRC (lilycocoon has left the room)

[22:00] <MarvBMar821> good night Bob thank you for your faithfulness

*** Log file closed: 3/21/02 10:00:40 PM