*** Log file opened: 3/7/02 8:01:40 PM

[20:01] <Bezalel3> Good evening, Bob.

[20:02] <BobWestbrook> Hi Bez! Figured you'd be the first one in! :)

[20:03] <Bezalel3> 2Well, I'm on the West Coast so figures I would be the earliest...:-)

[20:03] <BobWestbrook> True - it's still light there, huh

[20:04] <Bezalel3> 2Yup, just barely....but getting later for sundown each day.

[20:04] <BobWestbrook> How are things with you?

[20:05] <Bezalel3> 2I'm fine. Not doing real well with quitting smoking, but working on it...

[20:05] <Bezalel3> 2Are you still doing seminars?

[20:06] <BobWestbrook> Well, yes and no. Yes, I'm willing, and eager, if the opportunities occur

[20:06] <Bezalel3> 2I'll keep my ears open, but since I'm not a member of a "church" don't hear much...:-)

[20:06] MarvBMar [~MarvBMar@jproxy12.talkcity.com] has joined #IsraelMyBeloved

[20:06] <BobWestbrook> Hi Marion!

[20:07] <Bezalel3> 2Hi Marion.

[20:07] <BobWestbrook> Thanks, Bez. I'm puzzled about how to proceed, so I'll just be patient, I guess

[20:09] <MarvBMar> Hi Bob & Bez

[20:09] <BobWestbrook> Was just looking at the Jerusalem Post - another attack in Gaza, 3 Israelis killed

[20:09] <Bezalel3> 2Like the saying goes, He answers all prayers. Sometimes He says yes, sometimes He says no, and sometimes He says not yet.

[20:09] <MarvBMar> I couldn't get a curser

[20:10] <Bezalel3> 2You're doing fine now, Marion.

[20:10] <MarvBMar> good

[20:10] <MarvBMar> missed tuesday

[20:10] <Bezalel3> 2Just brought up JP myself. They're now saying 4....

[20:10] <MarvBMar> my computer is getting tempramental

[20:11] <BobWestbrook> sigh

[20:11] <BobWestbrook> I don't see how Israel can allow this to continue

[20:11] <MarvBMar> we just have to keep remembering that God is in control

[20:12] <Bezalel3> 2 4 Killed, 20 wounded, 4 serious.

[20:12] <BobWestbrook> Yes, indeed

[20:12] <MarvBMar> they are retaliating noe at least

[20:12] <BobWestbrook> And He is accomplishing His purposes, but still it's very sad

[20:12] <MarvBMar> yes my heart weeps!!!!

[20:12] <Bezalel3> 2I can't imagine the political pressures on Ariel Sharon now. He must turn to the Lord for strength and guidance.

[20:13] <BobWestbrook> Can you imagine the type of response that would be forthcoming in the US if a proportionate amount of people, around 2000, had been killed by terrorists in the last week?

[20:13] <BobWestbrook> There would be no talk of a moderate response

[20:13] <MarvBMar> did you read the peice about Sharon last week> I can't remember where I read it...maybe Gama

[20:13] <BobWestbrook> Yes, Bez, I think that's the larger plan :)

[20:13] <Bezalel3> 2Yes, but we're also seeing the effects of the liberals on the US ongoing battles.

[20:14] <BobWestbrook> didn't see that one, Marion

[20:15] <BobWestbrook> Well, we know what is going to happen there, based on the Scriptures

[20:15] <Bezalel3> 2I still remember Sharon's promise to the young girl in the hospital (early on). She asked him to keep the sabbath. He cancelled his schedule that next sabbath.

[20:16] <Bezalel3> 2Hopefully, he'll turn to the Lord...

[20:16] <BobWestbrook> yes

[20:16] <MarvBMar> Sharon & rose of "Sharon" spelled the same & to pray for Sharon to meet the "Rose of Sharon" That he will be saved & have God direct him in all his decisions

[20:17] <MarvBMar> Bez did Stan have anything more to add about the saudi proposal?

[20:17] <Bezalel3> 2And hopefully, Pres. Bush won't be distracted by his Peres, i.e. Powell.

[20:18] <BobWestbrook> good analogy, Bez

[20:18] <MarvBMar> I think our gov. isn't saying to much because of the coalition on the war on terrorism

[20:18] <Bezalel3> 2I was an hour late in getting in Tues. There was some discussion of the Saudi plan, but since there aren't any details on the plan, not much to speculate about.

[20:19] <MarvBMar> are any of the people for it over there

[20:19] <Bezalel3> 2The real irony is that the Saudi plan was an aside by Abdullah to a US reporter.

[20:19] <BobWestbrook> their aren't any details because it isn't really a plan, but a ploy to make Israel look bad

[20:19] <BobWestbrook> it really is a big farce, concocted by the CFR and their lackey

[20:19] <Bezalel3> 2Yes, Bob....that seems to be the "plan"

[20:20] <MarvBMar> how can they even think that it would be acceptable

[20:20] <MarvBMar> cfr?

[20:20] <BobWestbrook> What's acceptable or not is not even what they have in mind - it's all posturing

[20:20] <BobWestbrook> Council on Foreign Relations

[20:21] <MarvBMar> whose council is that

[20:21] <BobWestbrook> Since when do reporters start making major peace proposals? It's a joke

[20:21] <Bezalel3> 2Yes. Saudis said they won't even present the "plan" unless Arafat is allowed to attend Arab summit....not too obvious what they really want.

[20:22] <MarvBMar> I had not heard that it came from a reporter

[20:22] <BobWestbrook> CFR is a think-tank on steroids :)

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[20:22] <MarvBMar> & the prince wants no part of sitting at the table....hummm

[20:22] <BobWestbrook> Welcome, KM!

[20:22] <Bezalel3> 2Hi Karen...

[20:22] <kmmullins> hi

[20:22] <MarvBMar> shalom Karen

[20:23] <MarvBMar> he wants to sit back & watch the fireworks & get all the credit

[20:23] <BobWestbrook> The real objective of this proposal is to once again make Israel look like the bad guys and put pressure on the international community to ultimately place forces in the "West Bank" to create a de facto Palestinian state, without Israel's consent

[20:23] <kmmullins> shalom to you Marv B

[20:23] <Bezalel3> 2The fact that so many seized on the plan, just shows how the world is really anxious to "solve" their own problems...

[20:23] <MarvBMar> It's me marion, Karen

[20:24] <BobWestbrook> That's why Arafat is not interested in reigning in the violence, because it suits his purposes very well now

[20:24] <kmmullins> well hello marion

[20:24] <BobWestbrook> The Palestinians think they are "winning" with their current violent tactics, because they think they have Israel reeling, and are gaining international support

[20:25] <Bezalel3> 2The PA and Arab community continue to show that if you lie long and hard, the lies can start to become truth.

[20:25] <BobWestbrook> but it's going to blow up in their faces in a big way

[20:26] <Bezalel3> 2For me, it would be personally satisfying if Israel declared war on the PA, while the US went after Iraq. Allies can join or not...

[20:26] <BobWestbrook> Yes, many have seized on the plan, but they are not sincere - there is no way Saudi Arabia would EVER have an Israeli embassy, for example, which is what normalization implies

[20:26] <kmmullins> please tell me what we are studing

[20:26] <BobWestbrook> Bez, it just might play out that way

[20:26] <MarvBMar> then today I saw where the Jews attacked Arifat's headquarters & just missed the EU envoy

[20:27] <BobWestbrook> We are looking at the remainder of Ezekiel 36, starting with verse.....

[20:27] <BobWestbrook> 16

[20:27] <BobWestbrook> and then into chapter 37

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[20:28] <BobWestbrook> Bez, old boy, will you lead us in prayer to start?

[20:28] <BobWestbrook> :)

[20:28] <IMB-Seeker> Shalom All

[20:28] <BobWestbrook> Shalom, Seeker!

[20:28] <Bezalel3> 2Hi Seeker.

[20:28] <IMB-Seeker> Hi

[20:28] <MarvBMar> shalom seeker

[20:28] <kmmullins> Hi seeker

[20:28] <Bezalel3> 2Our Father, we gather in Your name, to bring You praise and honor.

[20:28] <IMB-Seeker> Hi Karen, Bez Bob

[20:28] <IMB-Seeker> Marion

[20:29] <BobWestbrook> Thank you for your mercy

[20:29] <Bezalel3> 2We ask in the name of Your Son, Jesus Christ, to annoint this gathering with the Holy Spirit. Give us wisdom in Your Word.

[20:29] <IMB-Seeker> Yes Father, bless us in this time

[20:29] <BobWestbrook> Your compassion is new every day

[20:30] <MarvBMar> Father I pray that you will open our eyes as we look at your word.

[20:30] <BobWestbrook> Yes, Lord

[20:30] <Bezalel3> 2We pray You will place Your hedge around Israel for Her protection and safety.

[20:30] <MarvBMar> Anoint Bob as he teaches us

[20:30] <MarvBMar> yes lord

[20:31] <MarvBMar> Cover them with the precious blood of Jesus.V

[20:31] <Bezalel3> 2Give us strength to face the tribulation of the world. Give us the power to declare Your Holiness.

[20:31] <BobWestbrook> Thank you for hearing us - may we bring you some pleasure

[20:31] <MarvBMar> May they come to know you as the Messiah & have their eyes on you , Lord

[20:32] <Bezalel3> 2And serve as a beacon of Light to a world spiraling down to sin and defeat.

[20:32] <Bezalel3> 2Thy Will be Done.....

[20:32] <BobWestbrook> Amen!

[20:33] <MarvBMar> amen

[20:33] <Bezalel3> 2Amen

[20:33] <IMB-Seeker> Amen

[20:33] <kmmullins> Amen

[20:33] <IMB-Seeker> so , I thought I was late..but guess not?

[20:33] <Bezalel3> 2Just in time, Seeker.

[20:33] <BobWestbrook> OK, who wants to briefly summarize the last few weeks of our discussion - any brave takers?

[20:33] <IMB-Seeker> looks like it Bez

[20:34] <MarvBMar> we were talking about what is going on in Israel

[20:34] <Bezalel3> 2Ezekiel as then, now, and future in the later chapters...

[20:34] <MarvBMar> sorry that was for Seeker

[20:34] <IMB-Seeker> Thanks Marion

[20:35] <BobWestbrook> Yes, we started in Ezekiel 33, saying that the chapters from 33-39 are "transitional" - largely end times events culminating in the "Kingdom" chapters of 40ff

[20:35] <BobWestbrook> last week, we saw God's plan for the solving the so-called "Middle East Crisis" in chapters 35-36

[20:36] <BobWestbrook> Now, we will resume with the end of 36, starting with v 16

[20:36] <BobWestbrook> (Ezekiel 36:16 NIV) Again the word of the LORD came to me:

[20:36] <Bezalel3> 2Obviously, not chapters read by our forum "intruders"

[20:36] <BobWestbrook> Yeah :)

[20:37] <IMB-Seeker> I'll say!

[20:38] <BobWestbrook> In contrast to the previous section, in this part God carries on a monologue with Ezekiel....

[20:38] <MarvBMar> what is the contrast , Bob

[20:38] <BobWestbrook> confiding in him with a concise and personal summary of the history of his dealings with Israel, past and future

[20:39] <BobWestbrook> I guess the contrast is the tone, perhaps

[20:39] <MarvBMar> ok

[20:39] <BobWestbrook> (Ezekiel 36:17 NIV) "Son of man, when the people of Israel were living in their own land, they defiled it by their conduct and their actions. Their conduct was like a woman's monthly uncleanness in my sight.

[20:39] <Bezalel3> 2It's more explanation than promise.

[20:39] <BobWestbrook> both, really

[20:40] <BobWestbrook> but yes, you are right

[20:40] <BobWestbrook> We know that Ezekiel was commonly referred to as "Son of Man"

[20:41] <BobWestbrook> but when I read this, I think of a young Jesus, reading the Scriptures, getting an intimate education from His Father

[20:42] <BobWestbrook> What do we see in v 17?

[20:42] <IMB-Seeker> I'm sure He was able to identify

[20:42] <MarvBMar> it is hard for me to see Jesus as young & not knowing...

[20:43] <BobWestbrook> Well, though He was the Son of God, He was also the Son of Man, and had to read the Scriptures, and learn

[20:43] <IMB-Seeker> Marion, I think His devine nature out did His carnal flesh

[20:43] <MarvBMar> at 12 he amazed the preists in the temple with His knowledge of the scriptures

[20:43] <MarvBMar> yes I agree seeker

[20:44] <IMB-Seeker> Yes, and He was wisdom incarnate

[20:44] <BobWestbrook> (Hebrews 5:7-9 NIV) During the days of Jesus' life on earth, he offered up prayers and petitions with loud cries and tears to the one who could save him from death, and he was heard because of his reverent submission. {8} Although he was a son, he learned obedience from what he suffered {9} and, once made perfect, he became the source of eternal salvation for all who obey him

[20:44] <MarvBMar> He must hhave been all knowing then too

[20:45] <IMB-Seeker> He was limited for a little while

[20:45] <IMB-Seeker> being a little lower then the angels

[20:45] <MarvBMar> Bob , what do you think v9 meqans

[20:45] <MarvBMar> means

[20:46] <BobWestbrook> In Hebrews?

[20:46] <MarvBMar> yes

[20:46] <kmmullins> seeker please tell me why you fell this

[20:46] <MarvBMar> made perfect by His death

[20:46] <IMB-Seeker> Which part Karen

[20:47] <BobWestbrook> Yes, Marion, He did not surrender any Divine attributes when He became a man, but did "empty Himself" according to Paul of the use of some of them

[20:47] <kmmullins> a little lower that the angels

[20:48] <BobWestbrook> And when it says He was "made perfect" - it doesn't mean that He was imperfect, but His development was a process, because He was after all fully human also

[20:48] <IMB-Seeker> I'm not sure of the exact location of that verse Karen..But it describes how when Jesus came in the flesh He came as alittle lower then the angels

[20:49] <IMB-Seeker> I will try to find the verse

[20:49] <BobWestbrook> (Hebrews 2:9 NIV) But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels, now crowned with glory and honor because he suffered death, so that by the grace of God he might taste death for everyone.

[20:49] <BobWestbrook> Though He was the eternal God, He lowered Himself

[20:49] <kmmullins> thank you both

[20:50] <Bezalel3> 2 7 You made him a little [1] lower than the angels; you crowned him with glory and honor Hebrews 2:7

[20:50] <IMB-Seeker> Thanks Bez

[20:50] <IMB-Seeker> And Bob

[20:50] <MarvBMar> seeker that is heb.2:7

[20:50] <MarvBMar> opps Bez got it

[20:50] <IMB-Seeker> thank you all

[20:51] <Bezalel3> 2:-)

[20:51] <BobWestbrook> (Ezekiel 36:17-18 NIV) "Son of man, when the people of Israel were living in their own land, they defiled it by their conduct and their actions. Their conduct was like a woman's monthly uncleanness in my sight. {18} So I poured out my wrath on them because they had shed blood in the land and because they had defiled it with their idols.

[20:51] <kmmullins> i can see i need to study again seeker

[20:51] <IMB-Seeker> Your doing great Karen..

[20:51] <BobWestbrook> A concise summary of Israel's rebellion and God's response

[20:51] <IMB-Seeker> a heart for knowledge works all the time

[20:51] <BobWestbrook> (Ezekiel 36:19 NIV) I dispersed them among the nations, and they were scattered through the countries; I judged them according to their conduct and their actions.

[20:51] <Bezalel3> 2So Israel's worst sin was breaking the First Commandment....

[20:52] <MarvBMar> this is where they are now too

[20:52] <BobWestbrook> In this chapter, the dispersion and regathering was not only of the Bablyonian captivity, but also the second dispersion of 19 centuries

[20:53] <BobWestbrook> Yes, Bez, that's where it always starts - departing from God and following other gods

[20:53] <MarvBMar> if they would look at their hearts... they are not as a nation following God

[20:53] <BobWestbrook> What's interesting in this summary is that God is speaking of His own interests first:

[20:53] <BobWestbrook> (Ezekiel 36:20 NIV) And wherever they went among the nations they profaned my holy name, for it was said of them, 'These are the Lord's people, and yet they had to leave his land.'

[20:54] <Bezalel3> 2Just their presence in other nations profaned His name, Bob?

[20:54] <BobWestbrook> In other words, people among the nations claimed Yahweh had little credibility because Israel had to leave the land

[20:55] <BobWestbrook> Yes, because some (falsely) interpreted as an inability of God to keep His promises

[20:55] <Bezalel3> 2Obviously, those who believed that didn't read to the end of the book...:-)

[20:56] <BobWestbrook> just like many today who stumble over the philosophical questions such as "Why does a good God allow injustice"

[20:56] <BobWestbrook> Right, Bez, that's one of the keys to understanding

[20:56] <BobWestbrook> So God responds to the slander of His name:

[20:56] <BobWestbrook> (Ezekiel 36:21 NIV) I had concern for my holy name, which the house of Israel profaned among the nations where they had gone.

[20:57] <BobWestbrook> (Ezekiel 36:22 NIV) "Therefore say to the house of Israel, 'This is what the Sovereign LORD says: It is not for your sake, O house of Israel, that I am going to do these things, but for the sake of my holy name, which you have profaned among the nations where you have gone.

[20:57] <IMB-Seeker> I'm sorry for having to cut out on you all tonight, but I have a busy schedule tonight...See some of you tomorrow night:)

[20:57] <BobWestbrook> See ya Seeker! :)

[20:57] <MarvBMar> the nations were not reading the book no doubt

[20:57] <Bezalel3> 2Night, Seeker.

[20:57] <IMB-Seeker> luv to all of ya

[20:57] <BobWestbrook> To you also!

[20:57] <MarvBMar> shalom seeker

[20:57] <kmmullins> Nite seeker

[20:57] <MarvBMar> God bless

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[20:58] <BobWestbrook> So if God helps Israel, it is certainly because of His compassion, but that's not the #1 reason

[20:58] <BobWestbrook> It's for the sake of His Name

[20:59] <BobWestbrook> Did you know that in the book of Ezekiel, the phrase "then they will know that I am Yahweh" is used at least 75 times?

[20:59] <MarvBMar> tomorrow , tomorrow I'll be there tomorrow , it's only a day away!!!!

[20:59] <BobWestbrook> In conjunction with actions He takes

[20:59] <MarvBMar> sorry I couldn't resist

[20:59] <BobWestbrook> That's the recurring theme of the book - God is doing all this so that the nations, and Israel know who He is

[20:59] <Bezalel3> 2Same song went through my mind, Marion.

[21:00] <MarvBMar> He is a Jelous God

[21:00] <kmmullins> but you are right marion

[21:00] <MarvBMar> :-)

[21:00] <BobWestbrook> (Ezekiel 36:23 NIV) I will show the holiness of my great name, which has been profaned among the nations, the name you have profaned among them. Then the nations will know that I am the LORD, declares the Sovereign LORD, when I show myself holy through you before their eyes.

[21:00] <Bezalel3> 2That is why I said this Chapter was more explanation that promise, Bob.

[21:00] <BobWestbrook> Yup :)

[21:01] <BobWestbrook> For people who ask for evidence that God exists, there is plenty of evidence in nature, and science....

[21:01] <Bezalel3> 2The miracle of Israel's restoration over the last 50 years should be enough for the world. But, they still want to ignore the Truth.

[21:01] <BobWestbrook> but all one has to do is look at ISRAEL for PROOF that God exists

[21:01] <BobWestbrook> Righto, Bez!

[21:02] <BobWestbrook> It truly is a miracle, and an ongoing one, each day

[21:02] <BobWestbrook> And for those who can see, it will become plainer each day

[21:02] <MarvBMar> God deserves all the Glory & all of out worship

[21:02] <BobWestbrook> (Ezekiel 36:24 NIV) "'For I will take you out of the nations; I will gather you from all the countries and bring you back into your own land.

[21:03] <MarvBMar> our

[21:03] <kmmullins> i get excited with thethings that aer going on

[21:03] <BobWestbrook> Some might suppose that given the time frame of Ezekiel, that the "gathering" discussed was the return from Babylon

[21:03] <BobWestbrook> but it is not so, which the next verses prove, because they are definately end-time

[21:04] <BobWestbrook> yes, KM!

[21:04] <Bezalel3> 2But He says He sent them to all the nations, not Babylon.

[21:04] <MarvBMar> yes Karen we should not fear but as Jesus said...Look up for your redemption draweth neigh

[21:04] <BobWestbrook> right

[21:04] <BobWestbrook> Speaking of redemption:

[21:04] <BobWestbrook> (Ezekiel 36:25-26 NIV) I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you will be clean; I will cleanse you from all your impurities and from all your idols. {26} I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit in you; I will remove from you your heart of stone and give you a heart of flesh.

[21:05] <BobWestbrook> Have these verses happened?

[21:05] <MarvBMar> they havebeen scattered

[21:05] <MarvBMar> & have now returned

[21:05] <Bezalel3> 2They've been regathered, but not cleansed...

[21:06] <BobWestbrook> They have happened to us, and to numerous other individuals who have called on the Lord for salvation, but they have not happened to Israel as a nation yet

[21:06] <MarvBMar> but all has not happened

[21:06] <BobWestbrook> This is an OT description of the new birth

[21:06] <Bezalel3> 2Amen.

[21:06] <BobWestbrook> (Ezekiel 36:27 NIV) And I will put my Spirit in you and move you to follow my decrees and be careful to keep my laws.

[21:07] <MarvBMar> do you think Israel as a nation will be redeemed? or on a personal level

[21:07] <MarvBMar> Jesus said that He was the only way

[21:08] <MarvBMar> no one comes to the Father but by HIM

[21:08] <kmmullins> Ijust have to study the Old testament more

[21:08] <kmmullins> amen marion

[21:08] <BobWestbrook> That's a toughee - my understanding that it will be BOTH - someday, in God's timing "all Israel will be saved" by turning to their Messiah in large numbers

[21:09] <kmmullins> i agree

[21:09] <Bezalel3> 2Meanwhile the Messianic movement is growing....

[21:09] <MarvBMar> When Jesus told Nicodimus..You must be born again I think He meant on a personal level

[21:09] <BobWestbrook> And I have an idea when it will happen, but I'll keep that to myself :)

[21:09] <BobWestbrook> Yes, it is on a personal level, Marion, but these Scriptures in Ezekiel are talking of salvation on a national level

[21:09] <MarvBMar> during the tribulation years

[21:09] <Bezalel3> 2I hold to the belief that it will be upon His return.

[21:10] <MarvBMar> there will be the 144,000 sealed to preach the gospel

[21:10] <BobWestbrook> And in many other places

[21:10] <MarvBMar> & the 2 witnesses

[21:10] <BobWestbrook> does it say the 144,000 are to "preach the gospel"?

[21:10] <BobWestbrook> that's widely assumed, but it does not say that

[21:11] <Bezalel3> 2Then I saw another angel flying in midair, and he had the eternal gospel to proclaim to those who live on the earth–to every nation, tribe, language and people. Revelation 14:6

[21:12] <MarvBMar> if they are sealed as servants they will be testifying of Him I think

[21:12] <BobWestbrook> Yes, probably so

[21:12] <BobWestbrook> But there will be a lot more than 144,000 Jews saved then, in my opinion

[21:13] <MarvBMar> Bob I think with all the angels to minister to God in heaven that these are sealed for an earthly ministry

[21:13] <BobWestbrook> These are a special select lot, virginal young men

[21:13] <BobWestbrook> Which as we all know are kinda rare these days :)

[21:14] <MarvBMar> Oh yes the 144,000 are just sealed to serve Him

[21:14] <BobWestbrook> Yes, good point Marion

[21:14] <kmmullins> this study time goes by so fast i have to wak the dogs it loks lkie rain God bless each and ever one of my friend,s

[21:14] <BobWestbrook> but the witness of the Hebrew prophets in numerous places is that there will be a massive national spiritual regeneration of Israel

[21:14] <Bezalel3> 2Night Karen.

[21:15] <BobWestbrook> Bye Karen :)

[21:15] <kmmullins> Nite

[21:15] <MarvBMar> rare yes, but right now I am thinking of the devout jews with the curls...

[21:15] <kmmullins> bye

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[21:15] <MarvBMar> orthidox

[21:16] <BobWestbrook> God continues to describe the results of this regeneration to Ezekiel:

[21:16] <BobWestbrook> (Ezekiel 36:27-28 NIV) And I will put my Spirit in you and move you to follow my decrees and be careful to keep my laws. {28} You will live in the land I gave your forefathers; you will be my people, and I will be your God.

[21:16] <BobWestbrook> (Ezekiel 36:29-30 NIV) I will save you from all your uncleanness. I will call for the grain and make it plentiful and will not bring famine upon you. {30} I will increase the fruit of the trees and the crops of the field, so that you will no longer suffer disgrace among the nations because of famine.

[21:16] <BobWestbrook> The return of the Jewish people to the land is Phase 1 of this plan

[21:17] <BobWestbrook> which is now in progress!

[21:17] <Bezalel3> 2Hallelujah.

[21:17] <MarvBMar> I would love to see them as a nation turn to God

[21:17] <BobWestbrook> Both Jews and Christians who are paying attention realize this, though of course we differ on the details :)

[21:17] <BobWestbrook> Well, Marion, stick around for awhile and you will :)

[21:18] <Bezalel3> 2But the difference aren't that large.

[21:18] <Bezalel3> 2differences

[21:18] <MarvBMar> When I was in Israel I found that many have no belief in God

[21:18] <MarvBMar> I know I will Bob..!!

[21:18] <BobWestbrook> Yes, and no, Bez - conceptually perhaps not, but there is a "huge stumbling Stone" that is a large difference

[21:19] <MarvBMar> which is??

[21:19] <Bezalel3> 2But the return of Jesus should resolve that difference, don't you think, Bob?

[21:19] <BobWestbrook> But to those who do not believe, "The stone the builders rejected has become the capstone,"

[21:19] <BobWestbrook> 8 and, "A stone that causes men to stumble and a rock that makes them fall."

[21:20] <BobWestbrook> That's Peter quoting from Psalms and Isaiah

[21:20] <BobWestbrook> Yes, indeed, Bez, if not before

[21:20] <MarvBMar> but many are accepting Jesus now

[21:20] <BobWestbrook> because, it's my opinion, that according to the Scriptures, that acknowledgment is in fact a PREREQUISITE of His return

[21:20] <MarvBMar> in Israel there is a sizable Messianic community

[21:21] <BobWestbrook> right, Marion, and it's only going to increase now, a snowball effect like you won't believe

[21:21] <MarvBMar> and around the world too

[21:21] <BobWestbrook> eys

[21:21] <BobWestbrook> yes

[21:21] <Bezalel3> 2Interesting, Bob....

[21:22] <BobWestbrook> I'll give you a few Scriptures on that Bez, for you to look at later:

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[21:22] <Bezalel3> 2Thanks

[21:22] <Bezalel3> 2Hi Mbracewell

[21:22] <BobWestbrook> Acts 3:18-21

[21:22] <MarvBMar> hi brace

[21:22] <BobWestbrook> Hosea 5:14-6:3

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[21:24] <BobWestbrook> OK, back to Ezekiel :)

[21:24] <BobWestbrook> We stopped here:

[21:24] <BobWestbrook> (Ezekiel 36:31-32 NIV) Then you will remember your evil ways and wicked deeds, and you will loathe yourselves for your sins and detestable practices. {32} I want you to know that I am not doing this for your sake, declares the Sovereign LORD. Be ashamed and disgraced for your conduct, O house of Israel!

[21:24] <BobWestbrook> What do we see here?

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[21:25] <Bezalel3> 2Hi FP

[21:25] <flyingpirate> Steve here

[21:25] <Bezalel3> 2or should I say Steve...

[21:25] <flyingpirate> hi

[21:25] <MarvBMar> hi Steve

[21:25] <flyingpirate> is there a chat going on

[21:26] <Bezalel3> 2Yes

[21:26] <MarvBMar> repentance

[21:26] <flyingpirate> oh

[21:26] <BobWestbrook> (Ezekiel 36:31-32 NIV) Then you will remember your evil ways and wicked deeds, and you will loathe yourselves for your sins and detestable practices. {32} I want you to know that I am not doing this for your sake, declares the Sovereign LORD. Be ashamed and disgraced for your conduct, O house of Israel!

[21:26] <BobWestbrook> Yes, we are looking at Ezekiel 36

[21:26] <MarvBMar> we are looking at Ez.36, Steve

[21:26] <BobWestbrook> We should not be too hard on them, because........

[21:26] <flyingpirate> great!

[21:27] <Bezalel3> 2It appears He won't provide the promises without repentance...

[21:27] <BobWestbrook> all of use who have come to be disgusted with our own sins have experienced that same kind of self-loathing that Israel will one day experience

[21:27] <BobWestbrook> right

[21:27] <BobWestbrook> Repentance is always a prerequisite for grace

[21:28] <Bezalel3> 2You're right, though, Bob. Looking at our own sins, on a personal level is hard enough.

[21:28] <BobWestbrook> But when we do, His grace is measureless

[21:28] <flyingpirate> Somthing sure needs to happen in Israel.

[21:28] <BobWestbrook> You're right Steve :)

[21:28] <MarvBMar> yes Steve we were talking about that earlier

[21:28] <BobWestbrook> The next few verses are quite interesting

[21:28] <BobWestbrook> (Ezekiel 36:33 NIV) "'This is what the Sovereign LORD says: On the day I cleanse you from all your sins, I will resettle your towns, and the ruins will be rebuilt.

[21:29] <BobWestbrook> (Ezekiel 36:34-35 NIV) The desolate land will be cultivated instead of lying desolate in the sight of all who pass through it. {35} They will say, "This land that was laid waste has become like the garden of Eden; the cities that were lying in ruins, desolate and destroyed, are now fortified and inhabited."

[21:29] <BobWestbrook> Notice

[21:29] <BobWestbrook> "on the day" - this is not a literal day, but an era

[21:29] <BobWestbrook> An era that we are now in

[21:29] <BobWestbrook> God has already begun the reclamation project for the land

[21:30] <Bezalel3> 2And the settlements are cultivating land that has been desolate for a long time.

[21:30] <flyingpirate> Wow

[21:30] <BobWestbrook> With the result that lands which had been long desolate are now blossoming

[21:30] <BobWestbrook> What this means is, that we are "in that day" - which is the "day" when the national cleansing of Israel will occur

[21:31] <flyingpirate> But the palestinians are what 3 million?

[21:31] <Bezalel3> 2Seeker has some pictures of the Jordan at CJ. The land is certainly blossoming.

[21:31] <BobWestbrook> Not sure of the number, Steve, but they won't be much of an issue for long, according to our study of last week

[21:31] <Bezalel3> 2:-)

[21:31] <MarvBMar> I like v 36

[21:32] <BobWestbrook> (Ezekiel 36:36 NIV) Then the nations around you that remain will know that I the LORD have rebuilt what was destroyed and have replanted what was desolate. I the LORD have spoken, and I will do it.'

[21:32] <BobWestbrook> Yes, Marion - a witness to the nations

[21:32] <MarvBMar> all the nations atround(arabs) will know that I am God

[21:32] <flyingpirate> Praise God

[21:32] <BobWestbrook> which are blind, but if they could see, they would see what God has done for Israel already in the last 100 years

[21:32] <MarvBMar> That God is the one doing it

[21:32] <BobWestbrook> But notice.....

[21:33] <BobWestbrook> "the nations around you will know" - Syria, Lebanon, Jordan, Egypt, Saudi Arabia

[21:33] <BobWestbrook> God rebuilt it - and they keep butting their heads against Him every time they attack

[21:34] <BobWestbrook> And for extra emphasis:

[21:34] <BobWestbrook> I the LORD have spoken, and I will do it.'

[21:34] <BobWestbrook> So there! :)

[21:34] <Bezalel3> 2And Israel keeps ending up with even more of the promised land.

[21:34] <flyingpirate> whats going to happen to Iraq and Iran?

[21:34] <BobWestbrook> right

[21:34] <MarvBMar> yes all the muslim nations!!!!!!!!

[21:34] <flyingpirate> all cool

[21:34] <BobWestbrook> Iran is mentioned in Ezekiel 38 which we will get to in a few weeks

[21:34] <flyingpirate> ok

[21:35] <Bezalel3> 2So you see Iran as part of Gog and Magog, Bob?

[21:35] <BobWestbrook> yes

[21:35] <flyingpirate> oh right

[21:35] <MarvBMar> Steve we meet here every Thursday night for studying prophcy

[21:35] <Bezalel3> 2I keep waiting for the headline about the destruction of Damascus.

[21:36] <flyingpirate> I know i read it every week

[21:36] <BobWestbrook> Finally, God concludes with:

[21:36] <BobWestbrook> (Ezekiel 36:37-38 NIV) "This is what the Sovereign LORD says: Once again I will yield to the plea of the house of Israel and do this for them: I will make their people as numerous as sheep, {38} as numerous as the flocks for offerings at Jerusalem during her appointed feasts. So will the ruined cities be filled with flocks of people. Then they will know that I am the LORD."

[21:36] <flyingpirate> long time fan

[21:37] <BobWestbrook> "Once again I will yield to the plea" is reminiscent of the major event in the formulation of Israel, when God heard their cry in Egypt and was concerned,and sent a deliverer

[21:37] <Bezalel3> 2He finally says He will do something FOR the people of Israel....

[21:37] <MarvBMar> sorry Steve I didn't recognize your nick

[21:37] <Bezalel3> 2Not despite them.

[21:37] <BobWestbrook> He will once again here, and be concerned, and send a Deliverer

[21:37] <BobWestbrook> And once again show His power through a mighty hand, and outstretched arm, and great signs and wonders

[21:38] <BobWestbrook> (Micah 7:15 NIV) "As in the days when you came out of Egypt, I will show them my wonders."

[21:38] <BobWestbrook> (Micah 7:16-17 NIV) Nations will see and be ashamed, deprived of all their power. They will lay their hands on their mouths and their ears will become deaf. {17} They will lick dust like a snake, like creatures that crawl on the ground. They will come trembling out of their dens; they will turn in fear to the LORD our God and will be afraid of you.

[21:38] <BobWestbrook> Good point, Bez

[21:38] <BobWestbrook> Because in the end, He is very compassionate

[21:38] <MarvBMar> armigedon will be signs & wonders for sure

[21:39] <flyingpirate> did you hear the pope is sick and he is 82 is the next pope the false prophet? I think so

[21:39] <MarvBMar> could be

[21:39] <BobWestbrook> Yes, the pontiff is about to go his reward, such as it is

[21:39] <flyingpirate> it seems the end time is so near

[21:40] <BobWestbrook> Indeed, Steve!

[21:40] <MarvBMar> yes it is

[21:41] <MarvBMar> like the song.... Get all excited , go tell everybody that jesus Christ is king....!!!!

[21:41] <BobWestbrook> We'll stop there and save chapter 37 for next week, so it's an open forum for the topic of your choice now!

[21:41] <flyingpirate> notice that Powell doesnt seem to like Israel?

[21:41] <BobWestbrook> Yes, we noticed :)

[21:41] <flyingpirate> wow

[21:42] <BobWestbrook> He might as well wear a sign "I don't like Israel much" :)

[21:42] <MarvBMar> I think he is just sitting on the fence to not offend anyone(arabs)

[21:42] <flyingpirate> he he he

[21:42] <BobWestbrook> Well, the State Dept has been consistently and historically pro-Arab and anti-Israel

[21:42] <Bezalel3> 2Coalition building is dirty work....and Powell is getting very soiled by it.

[21:42] <BobWestbrook> much more so than Congress, for example

[21:43] <flyingpirate> Ive noticed

[21:43] <BobWestbrook> Arab oil is their number 1 concern

[21:43] <Bezalel3> 2I have a hard time figuring out why the Jewish community continues to be identified with the liberals in the US

[21:43] <MarvBMar> I still think it is because of the coalition for the war on terrorism

[21:44] <flyingpirate> its like the saudi deal every one is crazy about it

[21:44] <BobWestbrook> Well, there has been a perception that Democrats are more pro-Israel than Republicans, and in the past there was some merit to that, however,

[21:44] <MarvBMar> Bez we have done a lot for Israel through the years

[21:45] <BobWestbrook> that' has changed now, largely because of folks like you and me who are considered politically conservative and pro-Israel

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[21:45] <BobWestbrook> Welcome, Kensei, to Bible Prophecy Chat

[21:45] <Bezalel3> 2The anti-Semitism is starting to surface in the universities also.

[21:45] <flyingpirate> and now bush is sending Zenni for who knows what

[21:45] <Bezalel3> 2The blame America mentality has moved the liberals to condemn the US backing for Israel.

[21:45] <MarvBMar> another reason why we need to pray for the President, that he will be sorrounded by wise & good councel

[21:46] <BobWestbrook> for another futile mission

[21:46] <BobWestbrook> right, Marion

[21:46] <Kensei1> wasn't really sure what this room would be about.was looking for someone who lives in Israel that would be willing to discuss security issues for a paper i am writing

[21:46] <BobWestbrook> It's going to be interesting to see how it plays out, Bez, especially if the US does indeed attack Iraq

[21:47] <BobWestbrook> We don't live in Israel, but some of our friends do, and some of us here are somewhat knowledgable

[21:47] <Bezalel3> 2Kensei, Stan Goodenough hosts a chat on Tuesdays, 8 PM ET. He lives in Jerusalelm.

[21:47] <MarvBMar> Kensei come back on tuesdays. the moderator then lives in Israel

[21:47] <flyingpirate> is Israel going to let another 39 scuds hit Israel and do nothing??

[21:47] <BobWestbrook> No, certainly not, Steve

[21:48] <BobWestbrook> they've already given the US and everyone else vocal and clear notice that they will NOT sit back this time and take it

[21:48] <Kensei1> thanks

[21:48] <MarvBMar> I don't think we will run into Iraq that fast

[21:48] <BobWestbrook> which is what will be interesting to see, because we could very quickly have a situation where the US and Israel are thrust together as allies

[21:49] <BobWestbrook> without much choice in the matter

[21:49] <MarvBMar> we have to finish what we are now doing in Afganistan

[21:49] <Bezalel3> 2Military allies, and probably the only ones.

[21:49] <BobWestbrook> I didn't think so either, Marion, but there is a lot of talk about it

[21:50] <MarvBMar> because of the Presiden's speach & nameing the "evil" countries

[21:50] <MarvBMar> but....

[21:50] <Bezalel3> 2I did read something about the US sending more Patriot batteries to Israel, in preparation for defense against Iraq.

[21:50] <BobWestbrook> It may very well be when chaos breaks loose, with full scale war in the region, that the US because of circumstances will end up strongly supporting Israel's actions

[21:50] <BobWestbrook> this is a probably scenario

[21:50] <Kensei1> Iraq this time around will be a wholly different ballgame.this time there is no UN mandate to follow,so the goals and targeting are going to be much more free form,and i think it far more likely to be a situation where what i fearder would happen the last time will:it could very well be just us and Israel

[21:50] <BobWestbrook> yes, they are now set up, Bez

[21:51] <flyingpirate> did you read Hizbula might start somthing soon but Sharon doesnt like war he keeps saying he will not lead Israel into war,, Is there a prophecy that a Israel leader is going to be killed right?

[21:51] <MarvBMar> I wouldn't put it past Uraq to attack Israel now thinking we are spread to thin to come to Israel's defence

[21:51] <BobWestbrook> Good points, Kensei - the US will likely not be as concerned about holding together a "coalition

[21:52] <BobWestbrook> There is, perhaps, Steve - did you see that on my website?

[21:52] <Bezalel3> 2The EU reaction and actions attest to a 2 nation coalition.

[21:52] <Kensei1> and this George Bush is not the "politician"that his father was,no disrespect intended

[21:52] <flyingpirate> yes

[21:53] <Bezalel3> 2Actually, saying GW is not the politician his father was, could be considered a compliment.

[21:53] <BobWestbrook> my interpretation of that is not dogmatic by any means, Steve, but I see it as a distinct possibility

[21:53] <Kensei1> from what i have seen on other chats,the Islamic world is already of a mind that this will happen

[21:53] <MarvBMar> one was killed already

[21:53] <BobWestbrook> yes, and we are also of that mind :)

[21:53] <flyingpirate> me too

[21:54] <flyingpirate> if BiBi comes to power look out

[21:54] <BobWestbrook> yupper :)

[21:54] <Kensei1> i keep running into a whole lot of Pakistanis that swear the 9/11 thing was Mossad's doing.that idea has really caught on

[21:54] <BobWestbrook> Yes, that's a common view in the Arab world, though entirely illogical

[21:55] <MarvBMar> no kensei impossible

[21:55] <MarvBMar> how do they explain away all the info on the men on the planes then

[21:55] <BobWestbrook> The results of this war are going to shock the world - we are on the verge of an entirely unprecedented event, you know

[21:55] <Kensei1> the real problem is that i can't find a mechanism to defuse this situation.

[21:55] <Bezalel3> 2I'm trying to imagine how the Mossad would recruit 15 Saudis to carry out the attack.

[21:55] <BobWestbrook> There is no such mechanism, Kensei

[21:56] <Kensei1> it's an absurd notion

[21:56] <MarvBMar> Kensei you can't it is all in God's plan

[21:56] <flyingpirate> this border buffer wall Sharon has in mind is not scriptural

[21:57] <Bezalel3> 2The PA also said Israel bought the 50 Million in weapons to set up Arafat....

[21:57] <BobWestbrook> all I can say is: "DUH" :)

[21:57] <MarvBMar> & they also had the PA police to operate the ship too

[21:57] <MarvBMar> right DUH!!!!!

[21:58] <Bezalel3> 2What????? You don't believe them, Bob? :-)

[21:58] <MarvBMar> heheheh

[21:58] <Kensei1> while i do have my own belaifs on how this translates into biblical prophecy,i am trying to view it objectively and not dogmatically,but i think there is a fundamental clash of cultures here,and i am of a mind that such things have no easy solution but time,which is what we don't have

[21:58] <MarvBMar> how is that Kensei?

[21:59] <BobWestbrook> There is no solution, if for no other reason than this: A large majority of Arab/Muslims have their minds set on hatred and destruction of Israel

[21:59] <flyingpirate> how is the buffer wall going to keep out mortars and rockets?

[21:59] <BobWestbrook> That will not change, it has only gotten worse, and it will come to a point of "resolution"

[21:59] <BobWestbrook> A 400 foot wall perhaps? :)

[22:00] <flyingpirate> Sharon doesnt get it

[22:00] <MarvBMar> Jesus said there would be nations against nations & kingdoms against kingdoms God's against satan

[22:00] <Kensei1> given time,integration works both ways and an equilibrium is reached,though not without some conflict.but the speed that this is taking on largely works against that.the Israel/Palestinian issue and the terrorisim angle are only spiraling upward

[22:00] <Bezalel3> 2I'm going to say good night. Thank you for the verses, Bob...and the fine discussion of Ezekiel.

[22:01] <BobWestbrook> Night, Bez - see you next time :)

[22:01] <flyingpirate> like the wall of china

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[22:01] <MarvBMar> shalom bez

[22:01] <flyingpirate> good night Bezale

[22:01] <BobWestbrook> equilibrium will be reached, all right, the same way it was with the last group that tried to eliminate the Jews

[22:01] <BobWestbrook> and all the ones before them

[22:01] <Kensei1> i also wonder if the US has the stones to stand with Israel with no other allies(except possibly the UK)

[22:02] <BobWestbrook> perhaps not, Kensei, but my feel is that providential circumstances will compel them to, like it or not

[22:02] <BobWestbrook> in this next war

[22:02] <flyingpirate> I dont know look at the U.S now tying Israels hands

[22:03] <flyingpirate> Powel good grief

[22:03] <BobWestbrook> George Bush is in office for a reason, and that reason has much to do with Israel, in my opinion

[22:03] <MarvBMar> he wants to see the mitchell plan work

[22:03] <Kensei1> must go to bed.sleep is good.it has been interesting,and i just found this chat site tonight,so i will be back soon.

[22:03] <flyingpirate> and were selling good weapons to Egypt

[22:03] <MarvBMar> I am not sure what all that involves

[22:04] <BobWestbrook> OK, we are here each Tuesday and Thursday

[22:04] <MarvBMar> I agree Bob

[22:04] <BobWestbrook> glad to have you join us!

[22:04] <Kensei1> goodnight

[22:04] <MarvBMar> we are here only on tuesday & thursday

[22:04] <flyingpirate> thank for the good chat

[22:05] <MarvBMar> good night Kensei come back soon

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[22:05] <BobWestbrook> I must also bow out now - thanks for a great chat, folks :)

[22:05] <MarvBMar> Good night Bob

[22:05] <flyingpirate> ok God Bless

[22:05] <MarvBMar> I too must go

[22:05] <BobWestbrook> Night, Marion, and Steve :)

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[22:05] <MarvBMar> Good night SteveD

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