*** Log file opened: 2/28/02 8:01:44 PM

[20:08] <BobWestbrook> Welcome to Bible Prophecy Chat

[20:08] Bezalel3 [~Bezalel3@jproxy13.talkcity.com] has joined #IsraelMyBeloved

[20:08] <BobWestbrook> Hi Bez!

[20:08] <IMB-Seeker> Hi Mrsnurdly

[20:08] <MRSNURDLY1> Hey there

[20:08] <BobWestbrook> First time in this chat, Mrs?

[20:08] <MRSNURDLY1> There any other Jewish chat on here?

[20:09] <IMB-Seeker> Are you new here or not and just under a name I don't know

[20:09] <IMB-Seeker> Stick around

[20:09] <BobWestbrook> Not sure - we are largely Christian Zionists chatting here, but anyone is more than welcome! :)

[20:09] <MRSNURDLY1> new here

[20:09] <IMB-Seeker> you will be blessed by Prophecy chat to night

[20:09] <MRSNURDLY1> ???

[20:09] <BobWestbrook> Christian Zionists, meaning we believe what God has said about the land belonging to Israel

[20:09] <IMB-Seeker> just getting underway

[20:10] <IMB-Seeker> Ezekiel

[20:10] <BobWestbrook> and are committed to supporting Israel based on His promises

[20:10] <IMB-Seeker> we are discussing Ezekiel

[20:18] <BobWestbrook> The subject of tonight's chat, Ezekiel 35 and 36, is very timely

[20:18] <BobWestbrook> In fact, they may be the two chapters in the Bible that deal most directly with the current situation

[20:28] <BobWestbrook> Let's pray and then we will move on to Ezekiel 35

[20:29] <Rich_31> 7ah yes of course

[20:29] <lilycocoon> 6Yes, Bob!

[20:29] <IMB-Seeker> k

[20:29] <BobWestbrook> Lord God, God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, we worship you

[20:29] <BobWestbrook> You are the One God, who revealed yourself through the Scriptures

[20:29] <Rich_31> 7and give all the Glory we see here Father to You

[20:29] <BobWestbrook> and we thank you that you have provided us the way to know you

[20:29] <lilycocoon> 6Lord let us hear Your heart tonight. Let us learn what You want to say to us so we can pray effectively for you plan to be fulfilled.

[20:30] <BobWestbrook> You have shown yourself to be faithful to we believers, and to your chosen people Israel

[20:30] <BobWestbrook> and we know that you will continue your master plan for redemption

[20:30] <BobWestbrook> So led us as we investigate your Word, and help us to understand

[20:30] <Rich_31> 7from this old wicked world

[20:30] <BobWestbrook> that we may give you the glory you deserve

[20:30] <BobWestbrook> AMEN

[20:31] <lilycocoon> 6Annoint kBob with Your wisdom

[20:31] <IMB-Seeker> amen

[20:31] <Bezalel3> 2Amen

[20:31] <MarvBMar> amen

[20:31] <Rich_31> 7Father keep us from the world don't let it taint any of us Father

[20:31] <Rich_31> 7Amen and Amen

[20:31] <IMB-Seeker> amen Rich

[20:31] <BobWestbrook> As I mentioned earlier, Ezekiel 35 and 36 may very well be the chapters in the Bible most relevant to the current Arab/Israeli conflict

[20:32] <Rich_31> 7thats so hard tto do huh Seeker

[20:32] <lilycocoon> 6How so, Bob?

[20:32] <IMB-Seeker> it is a challenge for sure Rich

[20:32] <BobWestbrook> On my website, I had some time ago written an interpretative paraphase of chapter 35, here: http://www.trumpetsounds.com/yourterror.html

[20:32] <BobWestbrook> Which you may find helpful as we proceed

[20:33] <BobWestbrook> Because, Lily, they deal with both the source and resolution of the conflict

[20:33] <tryChrist> Rich, a much underused part of the Lord's prayer...deliver us from evil. we should pray for that protection daily

[20:33] <Rich_31> 7for sure there Miller

[20:34] <Rich_31> 7we neeed it so much

[20:34] <tryChrist> i ask for that protection every morning

[20:34] <BobWestbrook> In my readings, I've found some very insightful commentaries from Jewish sources on chapter 35

[20:34] <BobWestbrook> I'll start with those

[20:34] <MarvBMar> tell us about it Bob

[20:34] <Rich_31> 7I think I'll do that too Miller thanks

[20:34] <BobWestbrook> the first is from a Commentary on the book of Ezekiel, chapter 35, by Rav Dr Joseph Breuer, Feldheim Publishers LTD.

[20:34] <BobWestbrook> Here it is:

[20:34] <BobWestbrook> Chapter 34 set forth the conditions under which the "mountains of Israel" will be restored to their proud beauty as of old (see Verses 13-14 ff). The description culminates in a portrayal of the exalted position ultimately to be occupied by Mount Zion in the midst of these mountains.

[20:35] <BobWestbrook> But the yearning for the fulfillment of this promise is not confined to the people of Israel. It is the goal toward which all of world history is directed. For the fateful issue of world history from time immemorial has been: which of the two mountains will flourish -- the "mountain of Zion" or the "mountain of Esau"?

[20:35] <Rich_31> 7and it will be very good to look at won't it

[20:35] <BobWestbrook> This question will be answered in the present chapter (35) and in Chapter 36. We already find in the prophecy of Obadiah (Verse 21), in essence, also the message contained in these two chapters of Ezekiel: "As harbingers of redemption will they come up on Mount Zion to judge the Mount of Esau, and the kingdom shall be God's."

[20:35] <BobWestbrook> That's the end of the first one

[20:36] <BobWestbrook> So, we see a broad conflict outline here

[20:36] <BobWestbrook> Jacob vs Esau, which symbolizes the people of God vs the enemies of God

[20:37] <BobWestbrook> And specifically, in my opinion, chapter 35 refers to "Mount Seir" which is the Al Aqsa Mosque and the Dome of the Rock

[20:37] <Rich_31> 7His enemies will reap His wrath

[20:38] <BobWestbrook> We know that by the verse in Obadiah that the Rabbi above referred to

[20:39] <BobWestbrook> Something, some offensive entity, is up on "Mount Zion" and is referred to by the symbolic name of "Mount Esau"

[20:39] <Rich_31> 7go on Bob

[20:39] <BobWestbrook> everyone still with me? :)

[20:39] <Bezalel3> 2Listening, Bob.

[20:39] <BobWestbrook> that's from Obadiah v 21

[20:39] <BobWestbrook> Well, we know that Edom, Esau, and Seir are synonymous

[20:39] <tryChrist> hanging in Bob...just thinking of the Jacob - Esau thing over the blessing

[20:39] <MarvBMar> My Bible says it is Edom

[20:39] <BobWestbrook> and Ezekiel 35 is directed at "Mount Seir" and the people aligned with it

[20:40] <MarvBMar> would that bre the arabs or other hethen

[20:40] <lilycocoon> 6Bob, do you know the meaning of the word "Seir" - wondering if that has any clues

[20:41] <BobWestbrook> Thus, though Ezekiel 35 is in the broader sense directed against all who oppose God's purposes for Israel, in the specific it is directed at Islam

[20:41] <Rich_31> 7thought it might be that but wasn't sure

[20:41] <lilycocoon> 6Both Spiritual and physical enemies?

[20:41] <BobWestbrook> Mt Seir is literally a place in Edom, in southern Jordan, but that is not what this is about

[20:41] <BobWestbrook> yes, I would say that, Lily

[20:42] <MarvBMar> Muslims are both

[20:42] <lilycocoon> 6We're with you Bob1

[20:42] <BobWestbrook> and as we get into both chapters 35 and 36 we will see how closely they match the current situation

[20:42] <Rich_31> 7sure are Marion

[20:44] <BobWestbrook> OK, now the next Jewish commentary on Ezekiel 35

[20:45] <BobWestbrook> this one is from...

[20:45] <Rich_31> 7don't think so Marion

[20:45] <IMB-Seeker> nope Marion..new

[20:45] <MarvBMar> hope I didn't offend by mentioning muslims

[20:45] <BobWestbrook> The ArtScroll Tanach Series - A New translation of Ezekiel

[20:46] <BobWestbrook> here it is:

[20:46] <Rich_31> 7thats ok Marion we know em when we see em

[20:46] <BobWestbrook> It is no coincidence that Edom plays this pivotal role in Israel's history. At the very dawn of Israel's beginnings, God had decreed it that whom He was to love (Malachi 1:2) would, until the End of Days, have its fate intertwined with a balancing force of evil which would embody everything hateful to God (Malachi 1:3).

[20:46] <BobWestbrook> Two nations were within Rebecca's womb, and two irreconcilable world views of peoplehood were to diverge from within her (Genesis 25:23). Never would these two be able to coexist. One would always be in the ascendant, the other, in decline.

[20:46] <BobWestbrook> Throughout its history, as Israel fulfilled its destiny as God's chosen people, it subjugated Edom. But when Israel lost its perspective, forgot its own unique character, and foundered on its road to holiness, Edom's star would rise as Israel's fell.

[20:47] <Rich_31> 7good and bad

[20:47] <BobWestbrook> Israel's nadir was reached when the Second Temple fell to Roman's legions. That was the moment at which the final and darkest of all exiles came upon it.

[20:47] <BobWestbrook> This was Edom's moment in history, and the two millenia of suffering which its ascendancy brought upon mankind will not be relieved until the coming of the Messiah. "At that time saviors will go up on Mount Zion to punish Mount Esau. Then the kingship will be God's" (Obadiah v 21).

[20:47] <BobWestbrook> Ok, that's the end of that one

[20:47] <lilycocoon> 6Esau still cann's accept that Jacob has inherited the "Promised Land" Older Brother still demanding his inheritance

[20:48] <BobWestbrook> You recall that from two weeks ago we said that the chapters from 33-39 are transitional, culminating in the Kingdom Age of the Messiah

[20:48] <Rich_31> 7didn't esau sell his birthright to jacob

[20:48] <lilycocoon> 6Yes, Bob

[20:48] <lilycocoon> 6Yes, Rich

[20:49] <Rich_31> 7didn't mean much to him huh Lilly

[20:49] <lilycocoon> 6Not at the time of hunger!

[20:49] <BobWestbrook> To me it is interesting that both of those commentaries referred to Obadiah 1:21 in reference to Ezekiel 35

[20:49] <BobWestbrook> So, on to the chapter, after that lengthy introduction :)

[20:50] <Rich_31> 7ok

[20:50] <BobWestbrook> (Ezekiel 35:1-3 NIV) The word of the LORD came to me: {2} "Son of man, set your face against Mount Seir; prophesy against it {3} and say: 'This is what the Sovereign LORD says: I am against you, Mount Seir, and I will stretch out my hand against you and make you a desolate waste.

[20:50] <lilycocoon> 6Still with you Bob

[20:50] <BobWestbrook> OK, what do we see here?

[20:51] <BobWestbrook> (Ezekiel 35:4 NIV) I will turn your towns into ruins and you will be desolate. Then you will know that I am the LORD.

[20:51] <Rich_31> 7our Lord is against Mt. seir

[20:51] <BobWestbrook> Notice that the symbolic entity "Mount Seir" has "towns" - which reinforces our indication that it is not a literal mountain to which this prophecy is directed

[20:51] <Bezalel3> 2therefore as surely as I live, declares the Sovereign LORD, I will treat you in accordance with the anger and jealousy you showed in your hatred of them and I will make myself known among them when I judge you. Eze 35:11

[20:51] <lilycocoon> 6God condemning Mt. Seir which is Esau which is anyone with the spirit of Esau which is against Jacob which is against God's will

[20:52] <Rich_31> 7they must be people of that old serpent

[20:52] <BobWestbrook> Good!

[20:52] <Rich_31> 7the devil

[20:52] <MarvBMar> scary for them!

[20:52] <Rich_31> 7very Marion

[20:52] <BobWestbrook> the next verse gives us an indication of the attitude of these people:

[20:52] <Bezalel3> 2I find the "I will make myself known among them when I judge you" interesting, Bob....

[20:52] <MarvBMar> which today we can say muslims .arabs PA

[20:52] <lilycocoon> 6Which today is the Arab nations. Is that right Bob?

[20:52] <BobWestbrook> (Ezekiel 35:5 NIV) "'Because you harbored an ancient hostility and delivered the Israelites over to the sword at the time of their calamity, the time their punishment reached its climax,

[20:53] <BobWestbrook> Yes (to all of you)

[20:53] <Bezalel3> 2:-)

[20:53] <lilycocoon> 6Thanks, Teach!

[20:53] <BobWestbrook> "harbored an ancient hostility"

[20:53] <BobWestbrook> :)

[20:53] <Bezalel3> 2Sorry about reading ahead....:-(

[20:53] <Rich_31> 7one from long ago

[20:54] <BobWestbrook> s'ok, Bez :)

[20:54] <Rich_31> 7ok with me Bez

[20:54] <BobWestbrook> (Ezekiel 35:6 NIV) therefore as surely as I live, declares the Sovereign LORD, I will give you over to bloodshed and it will pursue you. Since you did not hate bloodshed, bloodshed will pursue you.

[20:54] <Rich_31> 7clear back to Rebbecka you think Bob

[20:55] <Rich_31> 7with the twins

[20:55] <MarvBMar> after Jacob & Esau were reunited how long befor things reverted

[20:55] <Rich_31> 7hope thats right

[20:55] <BobWestbrook> the subject of this prophecy harbors an ancient hostility against Israel and is characterized by bloodshed

[20:55] <BobWestbrook> sound familiar?

[20:55] <Rich_31> 7yes it does

[20:55] <BobWestbrook> Sure, Rich

[20:55] <MarvBMar> very

[20:56] <Bezalel3> 2Sounds like an Arafat speech, to the PA....not for public consumption.

[20:56] <Rich_31> 7it sure does Bez

[20:56] <BobWestbrook> (Ezekiel 35:7 NIV) I will make Mount Seir a desolate waste and cut off from it all who come and go.

[20:56] <Bezalel3> 2And bloodshed has certainly pursued Arafat...

[20:57] <BobWestbrook> Here is my paraphrase of that:

[20:57] <BobWestbrook> Since you like blood so much, I'm going to give you your own bloodbath. You'll be chased by rivers of blood -- I'll see to that. It's your turn now. And your beloved mosques on my holy hill, well, just watch as I enjoy turning them into rubble. You are not going to come and go there as you please any more.

[20:57] <MarvBMar> but here he is talking about final victory

[20:57] <Rich_31> 7he has plenty of it on his hands too Bez

[20:57] <MarvBMar> sorry ....God is

[20:57] <Rich_31> 7it never be washed off I don't think anyway Bez

[20:58] <BobWestbrook> Now, some who read this may say we are "hate-mongers" - no, not at all - we are simply reporting what God has said He will do

[20:58] <MarvBMar> yes

[20:58] <Rich_31> 7yep

[20:58] <BobWestbrook> We are still to show love to all people, but their is a limit to God's patience when it comes to those who are brutalizing Israel

[20:59] <Rich_31> 7His Holy people

[20:59] <lilycocoon> 6and it's not that He didn't promise to bless Esau

[20:59] <Bezalel3> 2Many nations, huh, Sue?

[20:59] <lilycocoon> 6Esau wanted what was not pormised to him!

[20:59] <BobWestbrook> (Ezekiel 35:8-9 NIV) I will fill your mountains with the slain; those killed by the sword will fall on your hills and in your valleys and in all your ravines. {9} I will make you desolate forever; your towns will not be inhabited. Then you will know that I am the LORD.

[20:59] <lilycocoon> 6Yes, Bez

[21:00] <Rich_31> 7for ever

[21:00] <BobWestbrook> This chapter is the companion to the next, where God promises the "mountains of Israel" (Judea and Samaria) that they will once again belong to the Jews

[21:00] <Bezalel3> 2Does that indicate salvation for Esau, Bob?

[21:00] <lilycocoon> 6No one can fight God and win

[21:00] <Rich_31> 7for all eternity

[21:00] <MarvBMar> That should be enough for them to rent their clothes & cry

[21:00] <Bezalel3> 2In that they will know He is Lord?

[21:00] <BobWestbrook> But in Chapter 35, he is telling the opponents of Israel that their towns will not be inhabited anymore

[21:00] <MarvBMar> no judgement

[21:01] <Rich_31> 7they will cease to be a people

[21:01] <BobWestbrook> Well, not exactly, Bez - his offer of salvation to all still stands, but this is more in the sense of....

[21:01] <Bezalel3> 2a sense of regret?

[21:01] <BobWestbrook> how Sodom and Gomorrah "knew" Him after the fact, or how Pharoahs armies "knew" him after the fact

[21:01] <Rich_31> 7if they don't have any place to live

[21:01] <MarvBMar> God knows those who will someday repent & accept Him

[21:02] <BobWestbrook> a close encounter of the God kind :)

[21:02] <Bezalel3> 2Ah, good phrasing, Bob.

[21:02] <BobWestbrook> some have a close encounter with His grace, others with His judgment

[21:03] <MarvBMar> So thankful for the Grace ...kind

[21:03] <Rich_31> 7vessels of wrath

[21:03] <BobWestbrook> yes

[21:03] <BobWestbrook> exactly

[21:03] <lilycocoon> 6And God has given us (anyone) the choice. How sad that some choose eternal hell instead of eternal life with Him

[21:03] <Rich_31> 7to show us His Holy Power

[21:04] <BobWestbrook> (Ezekiel 35:10 NIV) "'Because you have said, "These two nations and countries will be ours and we will take possession of them," even though I the LORD was there,

[21:04] <BobWestbrook> (Ezekiel 35:10 NIV) "'Because you have said, "These two nations and countries will be ours and we will take possession of them," even though I the LORD was there,

[21:04] <Rich_31> 7His Rightousness

[21:04] <BobWestbrook> My paraphrase: So you thought I was out of earshot when you said, "The West Bank and Gaza are ours, we're taking over," did you? Wrong. I was there! Me, the God of the universe.

[21:04] <Bezalel3> 2That could be a headline today....:-)

[21:05] <Rich_31> 7yep

[21:05] <MarvBMar> I like your paraphrase

[21:05] <MarvBMar> WRONG!!!!!

[21:05] <lilycocoon> 6I need to often remind myself that the enemies of Israel are God's enemies first!

[21:05] <MarvBMar> someday they will hear it from our Lord

[21:05] <Bezalel3> 2All of their lies will be revealed also....

[21:06] <Rich_31> 7oh they surely will Marion

[21:06] <BobWestbrook> (Ezekiel 35:11 NIV) therefore as surely as I live, declares the Sovereign LORD, I will treat you in accordance with the anger and jealousy you showed in your hatred of them and I will make myself known among them when I judge you.

[21:06] <BobWestbrook> (Ezekiel 35:12-13 NIV) Then you will know that I the LORD have heard all the contemptible things you have said against the mountains of Israel. You said, "They have been laid waste and have been given over to us to devour." {13} You boasted against me and spoke against me without restraint, and I heard it.

[21:06] <BobWestbrook> My paraphrase:

[21:06] <BobWestbrook> I've seen your fanatical hatred and exorbitant anger against my people. Well, guess what! I can easily match your anger, and take it to another level. This is going to get very personal between you and me, and you'll know I mean business when I punish you. You'll know who I am, all right -- I'm not some phony God, and I'll bring honor to myself by what I do to you.

[21:07] <Rich_31> 7Ok Marion I guess I got confussed

[21:07] <BobWestbrook> I've heard the vile abuse, every contemptuous word, you've uttered. Over and over and over you spew out the most excessive invective against Israel. You strut around with your big talk, claiming "Palestine is ours." Here's what you might not realize: all of your many insolent speeches were against me! And you know what? I heard it, every single hate-filled word! I recorded it! All of it!

[21:07] <MarvBMar> the one above

[21:08] <Rich_31> 7yep

[21:08] <BobWestbrook> To me, it's very clear what chapter 35 is referring to, it matches so closely the situation today

[21:08] <Rich_31> 7it will be sooner than they think too huh Bob

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[21:08] <BobWestbrook> and it's not going to be pretty at all when it happens - but the point will be - GOD DID IT

[21:09] <BobWestbrook> not the IDF, though they may be His instruments

[21:09] <BobWestbrook> yes, Rich

[21:09] <Bezalel3> 2Kinda like 1967, but more thorough, huh, Bob?

[21:09] <BobWestbrook> yes, indeed

[21:09] <BobWestbrook> finish the job of 48 and 67

[21:09] <MarvBMar> I would say so Bez

[21:09] <lilycocoon> 6Do I understand you to say that because of what God does to the enemies of Israel that will cause Israel to wake up t0o see God for Who He really is?

[21:10] <BobWestbrook> Exactamundo :)

[21:10] <Rich_31> 7I think we will see God's Holy Power exibited for all the world to se in this thing

[21:10] <BobWestbrook> Zechariah and Isaiah also indicate the same thing, Lily

[21:10] <MarvBMar> yes Rich

[21:10] <Bezalel3> 2There will have to be some obvious supernatural involvement to leave no doubt.

[21:10] <BobWestbrook> or at least, a major step in that process, Lily

[21:10] <BobWestbrook> it will be an ongoing process

[21:10] <lilycocoon> 6I will really enjoy if CNN is there to show it to us live!

[21:11] <Bezalel3> 2I'd rather be there, Sue.

[21:11] <Rich_31> 7don't know how He will do it but it will be super natural alright Bez

[21:11] <BobWestbrook> I was just going to say the same thing, Bez, but don't tell my wife :)

[21:11] <MarvBMar> I think the tribulation years will turn many to God

[21:11] <Bezalel3> 2:-)

[21:12] <Bezalel3> 2CNN will probably miss the important things anyway....

[21:12] <BobWestbrook> Here's something interesting:

[21:12] <BobWestbrook> (Ezekiel 35:14-15 NIV) This is what the Sovereign LORD says: While the whole earth rejoices, I will make you desolate. {15} Because you rejoiced when the inheritance of the house of Israel became desolate, that is how I will treat you. You will be desolate, O Mount Seir, you and all of Edom. Then they will know that I am the LORD.'"

[21:12] <Rich_31> 7LOL Bez they always do

[21:12] <MarvBMar> they will be too busy explaining it away

[21:12] <Bezalel3> 2LOL

[21:13] <BobWestbrook> When I wrote my paraphrase in August, two weeks before Sept 11, I wondered......

[21:13] <Rich_31> 7yes go on

[21:13] <BobWestbrook> why would the world applaud when this happens? it doesn't fit....

[21:13] <BobWestbrook> BUT..... NOW it does!

[21:13] <Bezalel3> 2Amen, Bob....

[21:13] <lilycocoon> 6A "do unto others as you would have them do unto you" Only when the enemies are focusing on Israel they don't see God surrounding them and ready to defend them and be victorious for them

[21:14] <BobWestbrook> The final part of my paraphrase:

[21:14] <BobWestbrook> So this is the verdict of the Lord God: While the whole world applauds, I'll demolish you. Because you partied and celebrated and danced in the streets after every terrorist attack, I'm going to celebrate your terror. I'm going to give you back the desolation you've been meting out to Israel. You tried to lay them waste, so that's what I'm going to do to you. Then you'll realize that I'm God.

[21:15] <Bezalel3> 2And they chose the wrong side....

[21:15] <BobWestbrook> This sounds harsh, but it's the Word of God

[21:15] <BobWestbrook> and He does whatever He wants

[21:15] <lilycocoon> 6Amen, Bob

[21:16] <lilycocoon> 6But He has also told us what the plan is and it's our choice to do it His way or not

[21:16] <BobWestbrook> OK, I'm going to get a glass of water while you all preview chapter 36 :)

[21:16] <lilycocoon> 6Bob, You've really fleshed out those Scriptures, thanks so much!:->

[21:17] <BobWestbrook> my pleasure :)

[21:17] <tryChrist> "Come, behold the works of the Lord, Who has wrought desolations in the earth. He makes wars to cease to the end of the earth; He breaks the bow and cuts the spear in two; He burns the chariots with fire. Cease striving and know that I am God; I will be exalted in the earth" The Lord of Hosts is with us; The God of Jacob is our stronghold. Psalm 46: 8-11

[21:18] <Rich_31> 7Amen to that Miller

[21:18] <lilycocoon> 6Such an appropriate verse, TC

[21:19] <tryChrist> God is so good

[21:19] <MarvBMar> this too is speaking of final judgement

[21:19] <Rich_31> 7to those that belong to Him Miller

[21:20] <MarvBMar> hHe is good to others too ...He gives them what they deserve!!!!!!!

[21:20] <tryChrist> Let us behold Him is these latter days and draw our strength from His word and live from His promise, even in the face of tribulation...

[21:21] <MarvBMar> To us Grace & Mercy...

[21:21] <lilycocoon> 6kBKe strong and of good courage

[21:21] <lilycocoon> 6BE

[21:21] <MarvBMar> yes Miller!!

[21:21] <MarvBMar> we can because of Jesus

[21:22] <BobWestbrook> Allrightee folks, I'm back

[21:22] <Rich_31> 7thats it Marion because He loves us

[21:22] <BobWestbrook> Now, that last chapter was directed at "Mount Seir"

[21:22] <tryChrist> The Lord is my shepard I shall not want.....so simple...so true....so wonderful. Thank you Lord jesus for you have filled my heart and given me hope

[21:22] <MarvBMar> yes Rich

[21:22] <Rich_31> 7and we Love Him

[21:22] <BobWestbrook> but this one is directed at "the mountains of Israel"

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[21:22] <BobWestbrook> or more specifically, Judea and Samaria

[21:23] <Rich_31> 7ok

[21:23] <BobWestbrook> what some call "The West Bank"

[21:23] <BobWestbrook> the focus of the Arab/Israeli conflict

[21:23] <Rich_31> 7the philistines???

[21:23] <BobWestbrook> Well, Rich, it's somewhat unusual in the prophecy is directed at the land itself

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[21:24] <Rich_31> 7ok the land too

[21:24] <BobWestbrook> saying who would possess it and who would be expelled from it

[21:24] <BobWestbrook> (Ezekiel 36:1 NIV) "Son of man, prophesy to the mountains of Israel and say, 'O mountains of Israel, hear the word of the LORD.

[21:24] <BobWestbrook> This chapter is God's answer to all of the so-called "peace plans"

[21:25] <BobWestbrook> HE is the one who is going to determine what happens to the West Bank

[21:25] <BobWestbrook> Not Arafat, not the Saudis, not the Europeans, not the UN

[21:25] <Rich_31> 7He will for sure

[21:26] <MarvBMar> He will make it fruitful & His people will inhabit it

[21:26] <BobWestbrook> If there is any question that this chapter refers to today, the next verse dispels that:

[21:26] <BobWestbrook> (Ezekiel 36:2 NIV) This is what the Sovereign LORD says: The enemy said of you, "Aha! The ancient heights have become our possession."'

[21:26] <Rich_31> 7He has already written the outcome

[21:26] <BobWestbrook> "the enemy" are the ones claiming possession of Judea and Samaria

[21:26] <lilycocoon> How arrogant!!!

[21:27] <BobWestbrook> remember, the "you" in verse 2 is Judea and Samaria itself

[21:27] <Rich_31> 7and wrong huh lilly

[21:27] <lilycocoon> 6yes

[21:27] <BobWestbrook> (Ezekiel 36:3 NIV) Therefore prophesy and say, 'This is what the Sovereign LORD says: Because they ravaged and hounded you from every side so that you became the possession of the rest of the nations and the object of people's malicious talk and slander,

[21:28] <tryChrist> go figure....sounds like the headlines

[21:28] <BobWestbrook> This matches today exactly: terrorism, the nations thinking they can decide what happens to the "West Bank", and coming up with all kinds of "plans" to determine it

[21:28] <BobWestbrook> malicious plans

[21:29] <Rich_31> 7it does don't it Miller

[21:29] <tryChrist> yep

[21:29] <Bezalel3> 2And slander (the lies)

[21:29] <BobWestbrook> right

[21:29] <Rich_31> 7the way they talk about God's Holy people too

[21:29] <BobWestbrook> Isn't this great stuff!!

[21:29] <BobWestbrook> (Ezekiel 36:4 NIV) therefore, O mountains of Israel, hear the word of the Sovereign LORD: This is what the Sovereign LORD says to the mountains and hills, to the ravines and valleys, to the desolate ruins and the deserted towns that have been plundered and ridiculed by the rest of the nations around you--

[21:29] <Rich_31> 7it is

[21:30] <tryChrist> hair is standing on end :)

[21:30] <BobWestbrook> God is about to give his decision for Judea and Samaria

[21:30] <tryChrist> hey, i need a smiley with a beard, Bob

[21:30] <MarvBMar> Bob this looks like , from these verses, they may get the land (for a season)

[21:30] <Rich_31> 7it belongs to his and His

[21:30] <BobWestbrook> (Ezekiel 36:5 NIV) this is what the Sovereign LORD says: In my burning zeal I have spoken against the rest of the nations, and against all Edom, for with glee and with malice in their hearts they made my land their own possession so that they might plunder its pastureland.'

[21:30] <Rich_31> 7to Him and His people

[21:31] <BobWestbrook> a lot to look at in this verse

[21:31] <Bezalel3> 2He took care of that in Chapter 35, huh?

[21:31] <BobWestbrook> the high level of emotion with which God speaks

[21:31] <BobWestbrook> chapters 35 and 36 are concurrent - two viewpoints of the same events

[21:31] <MarvBMar> sounds like He has had itr with them

[21:31] <BobWestbrook> yes, Marv

[21:32] <Rich_31> 7very good huh Bob

[21:32] <BobWestbrook> who is God speaking against? (1) the nations (2) Edom (the Arab/Muslim world)

[21:32] <MarvBMar> I pray that will never happen....but God is in control

[21:32] <Bezalel3> 2Isn't a great deal of the water table under the West Bank, Bob?

[21:32] <BobWestbrook> yes, Bez, it is

[21:32] <lilycocoon> 6AAAll?

[21:32] <lilycocoon> 6All?

[21:32] <Bezalel3> 2That would explain the plundering of the pastureland.

[21:33] <BobWestbrook> All what?

[21:33] <MarvBMar> all those against Israel

[21:33] <BobWestbrook> notice whose land God says it is

[21:33] <BobWestbrook> "My Land"

[21:33] <Rich_31> 7its bed time for me friends see ya all next time God Bless

[21:33] <BobWestbrook> See ya Rich :)

[21:33] <MarvBMar> nite Rich

[21:33] <tryChrist> night Rich

[21:33] <Bezalel3> 2Night, Rich....say hi to the cows...:-) and God Bless.

[21:33] <BobWestbrook> I'll paste that verse again

[21:33] <MarvBMar> sleep well & be blessed

[21:33] <BobWestbrook> (Ezekiel 36:5 NIV) this is what the Sovereign LORD says: In my burning zeal I have spoken against the rest of the nations, and against all Edom, for with glee and with malice in their hearts they made my land their own possession so that they might plunder its pastureland.'

[21:33] <lilycocoon> 6Blessings, Rich

[21:34] <Rich_31> 7Love ya's all night

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[21:34] <lilycocoon> 6All God's enemies that want to possess His land

[21:34] <BobWestbrook> God is speaking against any nation that is an accomplice of this plundering of His land

[21:35] <lilycocoon> 6Those supporting terrorism against His land

[21:35] <MarvBMar> mostly the arabs & all muslims which takes in other nations too

[21:35] <BobWestbrook> In the next verse, God again directly addresses the land

[21:35] <BobWestbrook> (Ezekiel 36:6 NIV) Therefore prophesy concerning the land of Israel and say to the mountains and hills, to the ravines and valleys: 'This is what the Sovereign LORD says: I speak in my jealous wrath because you have suffered the scorn of the nations.

[21:36] <lilycocoon> 6They've bullied Israel once too often

[21:36] <BobWestbrook> "scorn of the nations" - the way they regard anyone who says that Judea and Samaria belong to Israel because of God's eternal covenant

[21:36] <BobWestbrook> (Ezekiel 36:7 NIV) Therefore this is what the Sovereign LORD says: I swear with uplifted hand that the nations around you will also suffer scorn.

[21:36] <BobWestbrook> When God says "I swear with uplifted hand" it indicates He really means business

[21:37] <MarvBMar> just think... Jesus said that God cares about the birds & here we see he cares about the land...how much more his love for us

[21:37] <BobWestbrook> and see who will receive His scorn?

[21:37] <lilycocoon> 6Is that phrase used elsewhere in Scripture?

[21:37] <BobWestbrook> "the nations around you"

[21:37] <BobWestbrook> Yes, a few places, I believe, Lily

[21:38] <MarvBMar> I didn't see seekerleave

[21:38] <BobWestbrook> (Ezekiel 36:8 NIV) "'But you, O mountains of Israel, will produce branches and fruit for my people Israel, for they will soon come home.

[21:38] <lilycocoon> 6Ex 6:88And I will bring you to the land I swore with uplifted hand to give to Abraham, to Isaac and to Jacob. I will give it to you as a possession. I am the LORD.'"

[21:38] <tryChrist> it can be easy to imagine the nations being judged, but how about the freedom that God's people will encounter? they will surely be on their knees in awe of the Holy One, blessed be He !!

[21:38] <BobWestbrook> Notice that this chapter has not yet been fulfilled - though Israel has been returned to the land, they do not possess Judea and Samaria other than in a few isolated places

[21:39] <BobWestbrook> very good, Lily!!

[21:39] <BobWestbrook> Sure will, Miller!

[21:39] <tryChrist> much like what Noah must have felt when the ark began to float

[21:40] <MarvBMar> so many in Israel do not have faith in God this will turn them to HIM

[21:40] <BobWestbrook> Marv, so many in Israel don't even know this passage exists, or what it means

[21:41] <MarvBMar> this is so sad

[21:41] <BobWestbrook> yes

[21:41] <tryChrist> no doubt Bob...

[21:41] <BobWestbrook> Continuing to address Judea and Samaria:

[21:41] <BobWestbrook> (Ezekiel 36:9-10 NIV) I am concerned for you and will look on you with favor; you will be plowed and sown, {10} and I will multiply the number of people upon you, even the whole house of Israel. The towns will be inhabited and the ruins rebuilt.

[21:41] <tryChrist> the rabbinic teachings can be so misconstrued

[21:41] <lilycocoon> 6It is so sad to think that they are so covenanted with the land and don't know the covenanter!

[21:42] <MarvBMar> so true Lily

[21:42] <BobWestbrook> in v 9 - God is CONCERNED about what is happening, He sees the terror attacks

[21:42] <lilycocoon> 6The compassion of God!

[21:43] <BobWestbrook> "the towns will be inhabited" - this is not Tel Aviv and Haifa, but is Shechem, Bethel, and Hebron

[21:43] <Bezalel3> 2He also sees the disbelief amongst the people.

[21:43] <MarvBMar> Bethlehem

[21:43] <BobWestbrook> yes

[21:43] <BobWestbrook> (Ezekiel 36:11 NIV) I will increase the number of men and animals upon you, and they will be fruitful and become numerous. I will settle people on you as in the past and will make you prosper more than before. Then you will know that I am the LORD.

[21:43] <BobWestbrook> So here is what we can expect to see in just a few years:

[21:44] <BobWestbrook> Many many Jewish cities in Judea and Samaria

[21:44] <lilycocoon> 6Perhaps with Passover coming they will remember how God has redeemend them in history and they will seek His redemption again

[21:44] <MarvBMar> we should focus on this

[21:44] <Bezalel3> 2Expansion of the settlements, Bob?

[21:44] <BobWestbrook> Beyond expansion, Bez

[21:44] <MarvBMar> that God is in control & will avenge His land & people

[21:44] <BobWestbrook> they won't be called settlements any more

[21:44] <BobWestbrook> just Eretz Israel

[21:45] <Bezalel3> 2But, the settlers will be vindicated for their "hardline" stance for all these years....

[21:45] <lilycocoon> 6This has really increased my faith in praying for them. I sometimes read the news and get discouraged

[21:45] <BobWestbrook> yes, Bez, yes Lily! :)

[21:46] <tryChrist> Aliyah for many

[21:46] <Bezalel3> 2I sometimes believe the settlers are the most "believing" of the Israelis. They seem to understand the covenant.

[21:46] <BobWestbrook> and, as we saw in Ezekiel 35 and we see in v 11 - "Then you will know that I am the LORD" - this will be a major major step in the process of God opening the eyes of Israel to HIM

[21:46] <BobWestbrook> yes, many of them do

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[21:47] <lilycocoon> 6And we will truly "rejoice with those that rejoice" What a time we will have rejoicing with Israel!!:->

[21:47] <BobWestbrook> welcome, piks, to what may be the most significant Bible prophecy chat yet :)

[21:47] <MarvBMar> amen!!!:-)

[21:47] <BobWestbrook> Amen!

[21:47] <lilycocoon> 6AMEN

[21:47] <piks7275> HI I missed most of it:-(

[21:48] <BobWestbrook> Now play close attention to these next four verses

[21:48] <MarvBMar> welcome piks

[21:48] <BobWestbrook> because if you look closely you can see God speaking about terrorists in the West Bank

[21:48] <BobWestbrook> remember, this is addressed to the land

[21:48] <lilycocoon> 6Need to head to bed but this has been such a blessing!! May the Lord bless all of you!

[21:48] <BobWestbrook> (Ezekiel 36:12 NIV) I will cause people, my people Israel, to walk upon you. They will possess you, and you will be their inheritance; you will never again deprive them of their children.

[21:48] <BobWestbrook> Night, Lily!

[21:48] <tryChrist> Piks, you can read it in it's entire form on the web site israelmybeloved.com

[21:48] <Bezalel3> 2Night, Sue, night, Dick.

[21:48] <MarvBMar> nite lily

[21:48] <lilycocoon> 6Ok! Will wait for next 4 verses!

[21:48] <piks7275> shalom lily

[21:49] <BobWestbrook> Never again will kids who wander into the wrong place in Judea or Samaria be murdered

[21:49] <BobWestbrook> (Ezekiel 36:13-14 NIV) "'This is what the Sovereign LORD says: Because people say to you, "You devour men and deprive your nation of its children," {14} therefore you will no longer devour men or make your nation childless, declares the Sovereign LORD.

[21:49] <piks7275> thanks try

[21:49] <BobWestbrook> God is going to remove the terrorists

[21:49] <BobWestbrook> who kill the sons and daughters of Israel

[21:50] <BobWestbrook> from the West Bank

[21:50] <BobWestbrook> see it?

[21:50] <lilycocoon> 6Yes, Bob

[21:51] <piks7275> does no one see the muslims as world wide terrorists, not just Israel and USA

[21:51] <BobWestbrook> Wonderful promises, amazingly corresponding to today's situation

[21:51] <piks7275> as in what is happening in India

[21:51] <Bezalel3> 2Kosovo, also, Piks....

[21:52] <MarvBMar> yes pils I do

[21:52] <BobWestbrook> yes, they are, Skip, but the focus of these chapters is the land of Israel

[21:52] <MarvBMar> africa

[21:52] <MarvBMar> somolia

[21:52] <Bezalel3> 2But Ezekiel is addressing Israel.

[21:52] <MarvBMar> indonisia'

[21:52] <piks7275> so why is it writen as afoot note

[21:52] <BobWestbrook> what?

[21:52] <MarvBMar> a footnote?

[21:53] <piks7275> the terrorist in india

[21:53] <BobWestbrook> explain, please

[21:53] <piks7275> not trying to divert the subject at hand :-)

[21:53] <MarvBMar> another word for terrorist in all these countries is muslim

[21:53] <BobWestbrook> that's ok :)

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[21:54] <BobWestbrook> WelcomeWelcome elisabethelisabeth!

[21:54] <MarvBMar> hi eliz

[21:54] <piks7275> hi BETH

[21:56] <BobWestbrook> ok, one more verse, then we will leave the next part of chapter 36 for next week because it really fits better with chapter 37 anyway

[21:56] <BobWestbrook> God's summary in his address to the land:

[21:56] <BobWestbrook> (Ezekiel 36:15 NIV) No longer will I make you hear the taunts of the nations, and no longer will you suffer the scorn of the peoples or cause your nation to fall, declares the Sovereign LORD.'"

[21:57] <piks7275> I wait for that day

[21:57] <BobWestbrook> "cause your nation to stumble" - I just noticed that - the "West Bank" has caused Israel to stumble in the sense that they have not believe His promises to give that land to them

[21:58] <BobWestbrook> and instead have been willing to give it away in exchange for empty promises of "peace"

[21:58] <elisabethelisabeth> true bob.....

[21:58] <BobWestbrook> God says - No More Of That

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[21:59] <BobWestbrook> So, between these two chapters, we have a very good picture of what is going to happen in Israel in the near future

[21:59] <MarvBMar> yes

[21:59] <BobWestbrook> this is not what we would call "tribulation period" prophecy, but can happen at any time now

[22:00] <tryChrist> o/ Bob, I think you were away when I wrote out Psalm 46:8-11 perhaps someone can post it agin... I don't think my fingers can take it again !!

[22:00] <piks7275> any idea how HE will do it

[22:00] <Bezalel3> 2Most of it could be brought to completion through the regional war, huh?

[22:00] <MarvBMar> it is even more so since there is the sadi proposal

[22:01] <BobWestbrook> Sure, Skip - He will use the IDF

[22:01] <BobWestbrook> Right, Bez

[22:01] <MarvBMar> saudi

[22:01] <piks7275> well yeah but..........

[22:01] <piks7275> more war?

[22:01] <BobWestbrook> yes

[22:01] <BobWestbrook> the final Arab/Israeli war

[22:01] <MarvBMar> well there is no peace yet piks

[22:01] <BobWestbrook> (Psalms 46:8-10 NIV) Come and see the works of the LORD, the desolations he has brought on the earth. {9} He makes wars cease to the ends of the earth; he breaks the bow and shatters the spear, he burns the shields with fire. {10} "Be still, and know that I am God; I will be exalted among the nations, I will be exalted in the earth."

[22:01] <piks7275> will be glad for the day when there is no more war

[22:02] <tryChrist> thanks..

[22:02] <BobWestbrook> Thats when there will be no more war

[22:02] <BobWestbrook> But that's later on :)

[22:02] <BobWestbrook> It's all about v 10

[22:02] <piks7275> alot of hard times inbetween tho

[22:02] <MarvBMar> that is after armagedon

[22:02] <BobWestbrook> God showing the world that He is God

[22:02] <BobWestbrook> And that He WILL be exalted in the earth

[22:02] <BobWestbrook> right, Marv

[22:03] <Bezalel3> 2So, first take care of showing Israel and Edom, then the world, Bob?

[22:03] <BobWestbrook> When the Messiah Yeshua reigns from Zion

[22:03] <BobWestbrook> right, Bez

[22:04] <MarvBMar> amen!!!!!!!

[22:04] <BobWestbrook> It's been great fun, folks - I must say "Layla Tov"

[22:04] <BobWestbrook> Good Night :)

[22:04] <Bezalel3> 2Night, Bob. And thank you for a most informative chat.

[22:04] <MarvBMar> shalom Bob ..good being with you tonight

[22:05] <tryChrist> Sha voo ah tov

[22:05] <BobWestbrook> My pleasure, and thank you all for participating so wonderfully!

[22:05] <tryChrist> i must be heading to bed

[22:05] <piks7275> will see you next time Bob ,Bez marv try, and everyone else

[22:05] <MarvBMar> Bob I didn't want to interupt you before ...it is me ...Marion

[22:05] <piks7275> G_D Bless allof you

[22:05] <BobWestbrook> Hi Marion! :)

[22:05] <Bezalel3> 2I'll also say good night to all. Need to do some work before beddy-bye....

[22:06] <MarvBMar> I hate these names but it wouldn't accept mine

[22:06] <piks7275> Thanks Bob ,will read trans.

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[22:06] <BobWestbrook> :)

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[22:06] <BobWestbrook> Night all :) God bless

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