*** Log file opened: 2/14/02 8:01:16 PM

[20:01] <Bezalel3> 2Speaking of Bob, There he is....

[20:01] <israelmybeloved1> Here he is

[20:01] <BobWestbrook> Howdy folks!!

[20:01] <BobWestbrook> Here I am! :)

[20:01] <israelmybeloved1> yeah - good thing he didn't hear us

[20:01] <Bezalel3> 2And he monarchized also....

[20:01] <BobWestbrook> good thing! :)

[20:01] tryChrist [~tryChrist@jproxy12.talkcity.com] has joined #IsraelMyBeloved

[20:01] <israelmybeloved1> Rise Sir Bob wot?

[20:02] <tryChrist> persistance paid off

[20:02] <Bezalel3> 2How good to see you, Bob. And good evening, Miller.

[20:02] <tryChrist> Shalom All

[20:02] <BobWestbrook> Sir Bob? I didn't get knighted like the Mayor G :)

[20:02] <tryChrist> had a hard time getting in the chat room

[20:02] <BobWestbrook> Good to see you too Bez! :)

[20:02] <Bezalel3> 2I got error messages until Stan fired it up.

[20:03] <Bezalel3> 2Yes, this is great getting the chats up again.

[20:03] <BobWestbrook> Hello Sparrow, and Try!

[20:03] <israelmybeloved1> Hi Miller - sorry 'bout the troubles

[20:03] kmmullins [~kmmullins@jproxy12.talkcity.com] has joined #IsraelMyBeloved

[20:03] <BobWestbrook> Hello KM!

[20:03] <tryChrist> no problem... I'm here now

[20:03] <israelmybeloved1> Shalom Karen

[20:03] <BobWestbrook> I don't know some of you by the new names

[20:04] <tryChrist> howdy Bob

[20:04] <kmmullins> It is good to have you back

[20:04] <BobWestbrook> Good to be back after a loooooonnggg time :)

[20:04] <BobWestbrook> And I suppose we should thank the Lord for all He has done in the interim!

[20:05] <Bezalel3> 2Bob, TryChrist is Miller. Miller is a friend of Seeker's....

[20:05] <BobWestbrook> Back in the days when we weren't sure what would happen after VHL

[20:05] <tryChrist> I'm in Atlanta

[20:05] <BobWestbrook> Hi there Miller!

[20:05] <israelmybeloved1> Yes, big amen on that

[20:05] <tryChrist> Shalom

[20:05] <BobWestbrook> I remember you from before, Miller? You were in one other time perhaps?

[20:06] <Bezalel3> 2Possibly from Crossing Jordan or Partnership with Israel, Bob....

[20:06] <tryChrist> I was in Tue night... or maybe at Seeker's Chat?

[20:06] <BobWestbrook> So are you fully awake, Stan?

[20:06] <Sparrow26> Shalom, Stan, Bob, Bez, and tryChrist!

[20:06] <BobWestbrook> Yes, perhaps in Seekers chat

[20:06] RyanIMB [~RyanIMB@jproxy16.talkcity.com] has joined #IsraelMyBeloved

[20:06] <Bezalel3> 2Hi Sparrow.

[20:06] <BobWestbrook> Hey, there's Ryan! :)

[20:06] <BobWestbrook> Howdy Ryan!

[20:06] <tryChrist> Shalom

[20:06] <israelmybeloved1> I'm awake Bob - not sure 'bout the fully part

[20:07] <Bezalel3> 2So, Ryan, you're up early also.

[20:07] <israelmybeloved1> yoh Ryan :)

[20:07] <BobWestbrook> (I'm not really a southerner, I just live here now, hence the "howdy" ) :)

[20:07] <tryChrist> things sound rough over there again, Stan

[20:07] <RyanIMB> Good morning, er, middle of the night...

[20:07] <israelmybeloved1> I'm gonna just visit with y'all awhile until you pick up steam then I'll crawl into bed

[20:07] <israelmybeloved1> it's my working weekend - Ryan is off

[20:08] <BobWestbrook> So you too switch weekends, huh

[20:08] <israelmybeloved1> did you get in easy enough Ryan?

[20:08] <BobWestbrook> two

[20:08] <israelmybeloved1> yup

[20:08] <RyanIMB> yes stan, but not on Pirch....

[20:08] <BobWestbrook> Is it Valentines day in Israel is it that just a Western thing?

[20:09] <israelmybeloved1> mmm, we'll have to test run that again

[20:09] <RyanIMB> nope, very popular in Israel now...

[20:09] <israelmybeloved1> ryan is my faithful sidekick folks

[20:09] <BobWestbrook> So did all you guys get cards and stuff for your sweeties? :)

[20:09] <Bezalel3> 2I saw where some Islamic nations were discouraging the celebration

[20:09] <kmmullins> being a woman i love this day

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[20:09] <BobWestbrook> I'm sure you do, km!

[20:09] <tryChrist> I'm trying to keep up....:-)

[20:10] <israelmybeloved1> ryan, Bezalel (Bez) and kmmullins are chatter friends from VHL days

[20:10] <bflew> Shalom, people

[20:10] <israelmybeloved1> as is bflew (Barbara) :)

[20:10] <Bezalel3> 2Not here, Bob. But got card, etc. from....:-) I think I'm in trouble.

[20:10] <kmmullins> yes we are

[20:10] <israelmybeloved1> tryChrist is Miller - a new friend :)

[20:10] <BobWestbrook> I was just handed a box of Russell Stovers from the missus :)

[20:10] <BobWestbrook> Uh oh Bez :(

[20:10] <RyanIMB> hi everyone...nice to "meet" you....

[20:10] <bflew> Pass it around, Bob!!

[20:10] <kmmullins> like wise

[20:11] <BobWestbrook> Hi Barbara! Have a chocolate!! :)

[20:11] <bflew> Hi Ryan....Good work!! We appreciate you

[20:11] <RyanIMB> thank you

[20:11] <bflew> thanks, Bob....Yummmm

[20:11] <BobWestbrook> :)

[20:11] <tryChrist> I want a solid, none of that white stuff inside for me

[20:11] <bflew> Lok forward to meeting you next mojnth, Ryan...

[20:11] <BobWestbrook> My kinda guy, Miller :)

[20:12] <tryChrist> :-);-)

[20:12] <israelmybeloved1> bez - I guess Islam and anonymous romantic cards somehow just don't fint

[20:12] <bflew> (Maybe I'll be speaking English by then)

[20:12] <RyanIMB> you will be in israel bflew?

[20:12] <israelmybeloved1> it's ok barbara - ryan is an american too :)

[20:12] <BobWestbrook> OK, let's have a brief prayer, and then perhaps the Israel gents can give us any important updates on the situation, then will get to the Bible :)

[20:12] <Bezalel3> 2They seemed to be pretty upset at the whole idea of happiness.....I guess.

[20:12] IMB-Seeker [~IMB-Seeker@jproxy16.talkcity.com] has joined #IsraelMyBeloved

[20:12] <bflew> you betcha!!! Arriving March 14th

[20:12] <BobWestbrook> Hi Seeker!

[20:12] <IMB-Seeker> Shalom

[20:12] <israelmybeloved1> Shalom Seeker

[20:13] <RyanIMB> GREAT - with a group, or just for a personal visit?

[20:13] <IMB-Seeker> hows all

[20:13] <tryChrist> Shalom Seeker

[20:13] <Bezalel3> 2Hi Allyn.

[20:13] <israelmybeloved1> lead the way Mr Bob

[20:13] <Sparrow26> Shalom, Seeker

[20:13] <bflew> On my own, as have been the last two visits.

[20:13] <IMB-Seeker> Hi Bez MillerN

[20:13] <BobWestbrook> Lord God, our Father, we thank you that we can call you Father

[20:13] <IMB-Seeker> Bob

[20:13] <IMB-Seeker> And all

[20:13] <kmmullins> Hi Allyn

[20:13] <BobWestbrook> and we worship you are our Master and Creator

[20:13] <israelmybeloved1> yes Lord

[20:13] <IMB-Seeker> Hi KM

[20:13] <IMB-Seeker> How are you?

[20:13] <RyanIMB> wonderful blfew, i look forward to meeting you

[20:13] <kmmullins> blest and you

[20:14] <BobWestbrook> You have led us this far, Lord, and we trust you to keep leading us

[20:14] <IMB-Seeker> Same

[20:14] <IMB-Seeker> TY

[20:14] <bflew> Thank You for being with us this evening, and may we be honoring to Your Name in all that we say here.

[20:14] <tryChrist> H'shem, You alone are our strength

[20:14] <BobWestbrook> So be with us here tonight, and may your Spirit teach and encourage us

[20:14] <israelmybeloved1> , we depend on you too, Lord

[20:14] <BobWestbrook> Only you can help us, and we are so grateful for your grace

[20:15] <BobWestbrook> and your miracles on our behalf

[20:15] <BobWestbrook> May we honor you tonight, and know you better

[20:15] <BobWestbrook> AMEN

[20:15] <IMB-Seeker> Amen

[20:15] <bflew> Oh yes, L'rd...amazing Grace...thank you

[20:15] <israelmybeloved1> yes, Lord, Amen

[20:15] <RyanIMB> amen

[20:15] <tryChrist> bless us L-rd with your word that we may learn and know Your truth

[20:15] <Bezalel3> 2Amen

[20:15] <bflew> Amen

[20:15] <tryChrist> Amein

[20:15] <Sparrow26> Amen

[20:15] <kmmullins> Amen

[20:15] <BobWestbrook> OK, Stan and Ryan, what's the latest?

[20:15] <bflew> Is that you, Stan...IMB1?

[20:16] <BobWestbrook> I was somewhat amused by the gun-toting Arafat slapping incident

[20:16] <bflew> oh...guess so :-)

[20:16] <israelmybeloved1> yes Barbara

[20:16] <RyanIMB> yes, which is now be vehmently denied bob

[20:16] <IMB-Seeker> Up early again Stan?

[20:16] <israelmybeloved1> Arutz 7 reported a soldier killed and four or five wounded a few hours ago as a tank was bombed down inGaza

[20:16] <BobWestbrook> Only Arafat could get away with that, can you imagine, say the PM of France doing something like that?

[20:16] <RyanIMB> oh, one of them died stan?

[20:17] <BobWestbrook> Of course, Ryan, because its so embarassing to them

[20:17] <bflew> I tried downloading the TAlk City thingy for a larger screen.... but still working with the little one ... :-(

[20:17] <BobWestbrook> What kind of bomb?

[20:17] <israelmybeloved1> according to A7's initial report, but Haaretz isn't confirming that yet

[20:18] <RyanIMB> A7 also reported a motorist killed in samaria as a result of stone throwers, but i never saw that confirmed either....you hear anything stan?

[20:18] <israelmybeloved1> i don't have info on the bomb - apparently the tank had arricved at an area in response to an earlier bombing when the charge went off - may have been an ambush of some kind

[20:18] <BobWestbrook> Do you guys anticipate that this will continue as is for awhile, that is, increasing incursions into Yesha after "incidents" and then pull backs

[20:19] <BobWestbrook> with the IDF gradually taking control of more and more?

[20:19] <RyanIMB> definitely....israel is not ready to make the move that could end all this

[20:19] <israelmybeloved1> there have been quite a few attacks today though most folk wouldn't know that

[20:19] <tryChrist> CNN reported the action today...then went straight into the Palestinian Valentines fun...how about people are hurt and innocent lives have been changed...oh the press

[20:19] <israelmybeloved1> sorry about the trouble with PIRCH Barbara - I can email it to you if you like

[20:19] <RyanIMB> i dont' see the idf keeping control of anything at this point...

[20:20] <bflew> would appreciate it, as you find time...Don't know why I couldn't get it myself. Tried a few times

[20:20] <kmmullins> who is idf

[20:20] <IMB-Seeker> How many are here tonight? I only see a partial list

[20:20] <BobWestbrook> The Israel army

[20:20] <israelmybeloved1> the motorist, an Israeli soldier, was kiled in a car crash which early reports said was caused by stone throwing but later reports said was an accident

[20:20] <bflew> Israel Defence Force

[20:20] <BobWestbrook> I see 9 in here

[20:20] <kmmullins> thank you

[20:20] <IMB-Seeker> k

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[20:20] <israelmybeloved1> well, Bob - Hamas is intent on upping the ante with its new Kassem 2 rockets

[20:20] <bflew> :-) welcome

[20:20] <RyanIMB> who called it an accident? A7, or ha'aretz?

[20:20] <Bezalel3> 2Hi Farrell.....:-)

[20:21] <israelmybeloved1> hey Sabra!!!

[20:21] <tryChrist> Shalom Sabra

[20:21] <IMB-Seeker> Hi Sabra

[20:21] <israelmybeloved1> ryan - both did

[20:21] <bflew> Shalom...

[20:21] <SabraFarrell> 2Hey brothers and sisters. Good to "see" you again :)

[20:21] <BobWestbrook> Ha'aretz is reporting the case in Belgium against Sharon will likely be dropped, because of "diplomatic immunity" of heads of state

[20:21] <IMB-Seeker> good to see you also

[20:21] <israelmybeloved1> and Israel has said it will continue large scale incursions into PA territory to stop the rocket firings

[20:22] <RyanIMB> yes, which means they will probably pounce on the poor old man once he's out

[20:22] <BobWestbrook> I have been hearing lots of reports lately about increased anti-semitism in Europe

[20:22] <BobWestbrook> Yeah, Ryan :(

[20:22] <IMB-Seeker> 7testing color

[20:22] <bflew> 4I'll try red, Seeker...:-)

[20:22] <IMB-Seeker> 7:)

[20:22] <tryChrist> try something else Seeker, unless you want to stick out :)

[20:23] <IMB-Seeker> 7:)

[20:23] <BobWestbrook> Hi Sabra!!

[20:23] <BobWestbrook> Good to see you! :)

[20:23] <SabraFarrell> 2Thank, Bob. Good to finally get here again. Thursdays are the only night I can get some time to chat. Glad you are back.

[20:24] <BobWestbrook> Thanks - I'm glad also :0

[20:24] <Sparrow26> Hi, Allyn. this is Dawn. couldn't get my own name, so I opted for this one

[20:24] <BobWestbrook> :)

[20:24] <IMB-Seeker> 7OH hi Dawn

[20:24] <tryChrist> Stan, how goes the tension right now? Do you feel any building retaliations?

[20:24] <IMB-Seeker> 7now I recognize you:)

[20:24] <IMB-Seeker> 7I went with the IMB in front of my name

[20:24] <IMB-Seeker> 7cleaver huh?

[20:25] <BobWestbrook> :)

[20:25] <SabraFarrell> 2I have been keeping up with you guys through forums and now can read the chat logs :)

[20:25] <Bezalel3> 2Meat cleaver, Seeker?

[20:25] <BobWestbrook> :)

[20:25] <IMB-Seeker> 7Oh BEZ

[20:25] <Sparrow26> very clever.

[20:25] <BobWestbrook> Ok, let's bring the cleaver down on the cleverness :)

[20:25] <IMB-Seeker> 7leave it to clever

[20:25] <tryChrist> oh boy......

[20:26] <Bezalel3> 2This is the cutting edge of chats, huh?

[20:26] <bflew> 4cute, Seeker

[20:26] <BobWestbrook> duh cutting edge all right! :)

[20:26] <israelmybeloved1> there was some Palestinian shooting on Gilo (Jerusalem suburb) around 3 hours ago - but the IDF is not responding much to that

[20:26] <bflew> 4very High Class!

[20:26] <SabraFarrell> 2Definitely, Bez

[20:26] <tryChrist> prayer prayer prayer

[20:26] <israelmybeloved1> it's good to ssee so much participation in the forums

[20:26] <Bezalel3> 2From Beit Jala (sp?), Stan?

[20:26] <bflew> 4That's the First...and Last resort, try

[20:26] <israelmybeloved1> yes Bez

[20:27] <SabraFarrell> 2israelmybeloved1 are you Stan?

[20:27] <israelmybeloved1> yes Sabra :)

[20:27] <SabraFarrell> 2:)

[20:27] <IMB-Seeker> 7speed of light

[20:27] <Bezalel3> 2IDF Incursions there didn't last long....

[20:27] <tryChrist> it is hard knowing there will be no peace till Yeshua returns in His Glory...

[20:27] <israelmybeloved1> sorry I can't use my own name - it's to do with having control over the room operations and just cos I like wearing a crown

[20:27] <IMB-Seeker> 7hee hee

[20:28] <SabraFarrell> 2Looks good on you and Bob both

[20:28] <bflew> 4IJ'll have to wait for MY crown, I guess, Stan...

[20:28] <BobWestbrook> :) I see you polished up for me after so long on the shelf :)

[20:28] <israelmybeloved1> no Bez - it is extremely frustrating how often Israel warns it will do something and then doesn't

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[20:28] <BobWestbrook> OK, tonight in the Bible, I'd like to take a "macro" look at a certain book.....

[20:28] <BobWestbrook> Hi there Piks! Welcome to Bible Prophecy Chat!

[20:28] <tryChrist> howdy piks

[20:28] <israelmybeloved1> the last time the IDF pulled out of Beit Jala Israel warned it would go right back in again as soon as the shooting resumed, but so far little sign of that

[20:28] <Bezalel3> 2Haven't seen a very forceful counter-attack from the Kassem missiles.. Thought that was promised.

[20:29] <IMB-Seeker> 7welcome P

[20:29] <RyanIMB> shooting on gilo has now fallen into the realm of ordinary, every day occurances....unless it becomes extremely intense, the IDF will not go back into bet jala

[20:29] <israelmybeloved1> Shalom Skip

[20:29] <BobWestbrook> Bez, if we see more, there will be, no doubt

[20:29] <BobWestbrook> More Qassam 2 missiles, that is

[20:29] <Bezalel3> 2Hopefully,

[20:29] <bflew> 4Shucks...wish I could see newxcomers coming in...Welcome, though and Shalom...

[20:30] <israelmybeloved1> Bez - the first response in Gaza yesterday (Wednesday) was fairly hefty in terms of the number of troops and armor that went into the PA areas

[20:30] <piks7275> HI EVERYONE

[20:30] <bflew> 4Hi piks

[20:30] <IMB-Seeker> 7Hi Piks

[20:30] <israelmybeloved1> yes Bob - which book would that be?

[20:30] <BobWestbrook> You guys have noticed, of course, that the end of the Bible, Revelation, deals with events at the end of time

[20:30] <kmmullins> hi piks

[20:30] <piks7275> long time no chat

[20:30] <BobWestbrook> That would be Ezekiel :)

[20:30] <israelmybeloved1> ah HAH

[20:31] <israelmybeloved1> :)

[20:31] <israelmybeloved1> yes, noticed that Bob

[20:31] <BobWestbrook> But have you noticed that a number of books, specifically writings of the prophets, also have that kind of loose organization?

[20:31] <kmmullins> what chapter

[20:31] <IMB-Seeker> 7yes

[20:31] <bflew> 4yup

[20:31] <BobWestbrook> Like Isaiah, Jeremiah, Daniel, Zechariah

[20:31] <tryChrist> k

[20:31] <Bezalel3> 2I thought it was organized like that to confuse me.....:-)

[20:32] <BobWestbrook> the chapters at the end deal with "end times stuff" though of course there is a lot sprinkled in the rest of them

[20:32] <bflew> 4Probably was, Bez

[20:32] <israelmybeloved1> when you say loose organization - what d'ya mean Bob?

[20:32] <BobWestbrook> But in Ezekiel it is especially true

[20:32] <piks7275> 66:->

[20:32] <BobWestbrook> "loose" meaning its not a hard and fast ruke

[20:32] <BobWestbrook> rule

[20:32] <IMB-Seeker> 7Seeker sits back in his chair preparing to listen :)

[20:32] <BobWestbrook> But in Ezekiel it is more noticable

[20:33] <SabraFarrell> 2:0) me too

[20:33] <BobWestbrook> the chapters at the end deal almost exclusively with future events

[20:33] <bflew> 4Barbara brought her sewing, so I could sit over here in the corner.....and glean stuff! ;_0

[20:33] <piks7275> 6:-* Happy Valentines Day to all of you

[20:33] <israelmybeloved1> yeah - go on Bob

[20:33] <israelmybeloved1> 0,4 ©©©© 1,4 0,4 piks7275 !!!0,4 ©©©©

[20:33] <israelmybeloved1> 4,0 ©©©© 4 piks7275 !!! 4,0 ©©©©

[20:33] <bflew> 4cute, Stan

[20:33] <israelmybeloved1> ahem

[20:33] <BobWestbrook> So, I'd like to do an outline of sorts of the last part of Ezekiel, which you will find interesting I hope

[20:33] <SabraFarrell> 2what is that:

[20:34] <kmmullins> thank you for asking

[20:34] <israelmybeloved1> i'm sure we will

[20:34] <piks7275> 6always

[20:34] <BobWestbrook> but first I need to take a very very short break to take care of something here

[20:34] <piks7275> 6ok

[20:34] <israelmybeloved1> ah, Bob's gonna get a coffee :)

[20:34] <bflew> 4we'll wait

[20:34] <IMB-Seeker> 7zzzzzzzzzzzz

[20:35] <bflew> 4figured

[20:35] <Bezalel3> 2Bob's opening the Stover's I'll bet.....

[20:35] <bflew> 4Maybe ICE CREAM....with chocolate syrup!!!!

[20:35] <israelmybeloved1> while he's gone...did you all notice how much detail Ezekiel gives to the building of another temple?

[20:36] <SabraFarrell> 2Doncha love it?

[20:36] <SabraFarrell> 2the temple that is :)

[20:36] <israelmybeloved1> many believers are unsure about whether or not there will actually be another physical temple in the earthly Jerusalem

[20:36] <piks7275> 6what do think stan?

[20:36] <Bezalel3> 2Wake up, Seeker, he's talking to you!

[20:36] <IMB-Seeker> 7being a good boy here

[20:37] <israelmybeloved1> yes Sabra - love it

[20:37] <SabraFarrell> 2seems like when God says a temple will be built that it means a temple will be built. Is that so?

[20:38] <israelmybeloved1> Seeker - be good, but don't be queit :)

[20:38] <IMB-Seeker> 7ok..:)

[20:38] <BobWestbrook> OK, I'm back

[20:38] <israelmybeloved1> i mean. think about it - the Bible gives just two chapters to the whole of creation

[20:38] <israelmybeloved1> but as with the tabernacle, pages and pages of intricate detail about the temple

[20:39] <piks7275> 6I have read where people are getting together the temple worship objects

[20:39] <israelmybeloved1> something to think about anyway

[20:39] <israelmybeloved1> wb bob

[20:39] <BobWestbrook> Yes, there are very detailed blueprints and instructions in chapters 40-48 which is the end of the book, describing the Kingdom temple and worship

[20:39] <BobWestbrook> thanks :)

[20:39] <israelmybeloved1> let's pick this up another day - shouldn't get too controversial on our first night back :)

[20:39] <israelmybeloved1> all yours Bob

[20:40] <BobWestbrook> It's a fascinating read and the details in those chapters make it quite clear that this is future

[20:40] <piks7275> 6even heard there is a red heifer now

[20:40] <IMB-Seeker> 7whew BOB

[20:40] <israelmybeloved1> nah Skip - they found three white hairs on it so it's been disqualified

[20:40] <BobWestbrook> Yessir, Piks

[20:40] <piks7275> 6wow

[20:40] <BobWestbrook> So, using those 40-48 chapters as one reference point, lets go back to the middle of the book of Ezekiel

[20:40] <piks7275> 6wonder if they will clone one

[20:40] <israelmybeloved1> OK

[20:41] <bflew> 4lead on......

[20:41] <israelmybeloved1> which chapter?

[20:41] <BobWestbrook> chapters 25-32 are a series of judgments of various nations, some historical, some with definite end time implications

[20:41] <BobWestbrook> We're doing the big picture first :)

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[20:42] <israelmybeloved1> right

[20:42] <BobWestbrook> So, chapters 33-39 are in between those two sections, and thats where it gets interesting

[20:42] <BobWestbrook> We can conclude (correctly) that 33-39 are in between, chronologically

[20:43] <piks7275> 6is Hamonah of 39:16 the same as ammon?

[20:43] <BobWestbrook> And thus are very relevant to today, as they will be unfolding before our eyes

[20:43] <BobWestbrook> prior to the Kingdom (Millenium)

[20:43] <piks7275> 6tha city

[20:44] <BobWestbrook> not sure, Hamonah, let's defer that ? for a few, ok?

[20:44] <piks7275> 6ok

[20:44] <BobWestbrook> So, looking at chapters 33-39

[20:44] <piks7275> 6:-)

[20:44] <BobWestbrook> chapter 33 is the "watchman" chapter

[20:44] <BobWestbrook> and the end of it is a summary of why the Lord did what He did to Israel

[20:45] <israelmybeloved1> following

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[20:45] <BobWestbrook> so it is a transition of sorts

[20:45] <BobWestbrook> chapter 34 begins the "comfort" or "restoration" section of the book

[20:45] <BobWestbrook> and it is the "Shepherd" chapter

[20:46] <BobWestbrook> speaking of the Messiah as the son of David who would shepherd Israel

[20:46] <BobWestbrook> (Ezekiel 34:23-24 NIV) I will place over them one shepherd, my servant David, and he will tend them; he will tend them and be their shepherd. {24} I the LORD will be their God, and my servant David will be prince among them. I the LORD have spoken.

[20:46] <BobWestbrook> And it goes on about how He will bless them

[20:47] <BobWestbrook> but at the beginning of that chapter, in contrast....

[20:47] <BobWestbrook> is a strong indictment of the "false shepherds" who have led Israel astry

[20:47] <BobWestbrook> who have taken them away from God rather than leading them to Him

[20:47] <israelmybeloved1> yes, He climbs into the leaders of Israel

[20:48] <BobWestbrook> not only an indictment, but a notice that the will be removed

[20:48] <BobWestbrook> which is, in my opinion, God's indictment of what has come to be know as "rabbinical" Judais,

[20:48] <BobWestbrook> Judaism

[20:48] <israelmybeloved1> those leaders were chiefly the priests, Bob, yes?

[20:49] <BobWestbrook> historically, they would be priests, prophets, and kings

[20:49] <BobWestbrook> but the indictment extends to the present and future as well, culminating in the installation of the "True Shepherd"

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[20:50] <BobWestbrook> poor Sabra :)

[20:50] <BobWestbrook> keeps getting tossed out

[20:50] <BobWestbrook> ok, so lets recap our outline.....

[20:51] <BobWestbrook> 25-32 judgments on nations, 33, the Watchman and summary of judgment on Israel, 34, false and true shepherds

[20:51] <IMB-Seeker> 7Bob..Who is the son of man spoken of here?

[20:51] <BobWestbrook> Which verse, seeker?

[20:51] <IMB-Seeker> 7 33:7

[20:52] <israelmybeloved1> that's interesting - Bob I was reading in Shimon Peres' autobography yesterday how much the early, very secular, leaders of Israel looked up the the prophets of old as setting the moral standards for Israel's behavior

[20:52] <BobWestbrook> Ezekiel is often referred to by the Lord as "Son of Man" but it is also a symbolic reference to the Messiah, looking forward

[20:52] <israelmybeloved1> Sabra is still here :) just got a number now

[20:52] <IMB-Seeker> 7but in this instance do you think it is Ezekiel

[20:52] <IMB-Seeker> 7 7-10

[20:52] <BobWestbrook> Yes, Ben Gurion in particular, though not "religous" was an avid reader of the prophets and often quoted them

[20:53] <BobWestbrook> Primarily, Seeker, but also.....

[20:53] <BobWestbrook> (Ezekiel 33:7 NIV) "Son of man, I have made you a watchman for the house of Israel; so hear the word I speak and give them warning from me.

[20:53] <tryChrist> cross ref 3:17-19 for son of man

[20:53] <BobWestbrook> If you look at the last verse of the chapter...

[20:53] <BobWestbrook> (Ezekiel 33:33 NIV) "When all this comes true--and it surely will--then they will know that a prophet has been among them."

[20:54] <BobWestbrook> The inference, after describing the woes of Israel, is certainly to Jesus as well

[20:54] <IMB-Seeker> 7"I will hold you accountable"

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[20:54] <IMB-Seeker> 7This does not sound like God to His Son

[20:54] <israelmybeloved1> it's a kind of indictment against especially these very left-wing Israelis that they laud the "social gospel" of the Hebrew Scriptures but deny its spiritual truths

[20:55] <BobWestbrook> Well, in a sense, we do see that kind of dialogue between Father and Son, where the Father charges the Son with a specific mission, especially in Isaiah

[20:55] <kmmullins> may i ask i guestion

[20:55] <IMB-Seeker> 7ok

[20:55] <BobWestbrook> yes, km

[20:56] <BobWestbrook> Sure is, Stan

[20:57] <BobWestbrook> So we are left with chapters 35-39 in our examination

[20:57] <tryChrist> 6son of man - cross ref - 3:17-19

[20:57] <BobWestbrook> we know that 40-48 is the Kingdom

[20:57] <kmmullins> scriptures tellus that we are forgiven and tht OUR SINS ARE FORGI ven as far as the east is fron=m the west hat judgement are you speeking of

[20:57] <IMB-Seeker> 7vs 23 of chapter 33 really makes it clearer that Ezekiel is the son of man spoken of

[20:57] <BobWestbrook> and 38-39 is Gog and Magog - the great battle

[20:57] <israelmybeloved1> with realtion to the Oslo Accords - this false pace process, many of us have understood both Ezekiel 13 and Isaiah 28 to be very relevant

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[20:58] <israelmybeloved1> peace process I mean

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[20:58] <IMB-Seeker> 7:)

[20:58] <BobWestbrook> km, the judgment I was referring to in Eze 33 was the long term dealing of the Lord with Israel because they had departed from Him

[20:58] <BobWestbrook> but that's not the end of the story

[20:58] <BobWestbrook> because the rest of it speaks of restoration

[20:59] <kmmullins> ok thank you for clearing that up

[20:59] <BobWestbrook> sure :)

[20:59] <israelmybeloved1> yes - the wonderful restoration :)

[20:59] <BobWestbrook> ok, here's our complete outline:

[20:59] <BobWestbrook> 25-32 judgment on various nations, 33 summary of God's negative dealings with Israel

[21:00] <BobWestbrook> 34 promise of Good Shepherd who gets rid of the fake ones

[21:00] <BobWestbrook> 35 judgment on "Mount Seir" (Islam and Dome of the Rock Al/Aqsa)

[21:00] <BobWestbrook> 36 God speaks to the West Bank and promises Israel will inherit it

[21:01] <BobWestbrook> 37 the famous "Dry Bones"

[21:01] <piks7275> 6my bible says MT Seir is Edom

[21:01] <BobWestbrook> 38-39 Gog and Magog

[21:01] <BobWestbrook> 40-48 Temple and Kingdom

[21:01] <BobWestbrook> Yes, Mt Seir is Edom, historically, which is Esau

[21:02] <piks7275> 6could they be the arabs of today?

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[21:02] <BobWestbrook> but prophetically, I guess the point I'm trying to make is that we are in the midst of chapters 34-37 being fulfilled

[21:02] <BobWestbrook> as we watch :)

[21:02] <BobWestbrook> Yes, Piks

[21:03] <piks7275> 6ok

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[21:03] <BobWestbrook> Everyone still with me? :)

[21:03] <kmmullins> yes

[21:03] <piks7275> 6yes

[21:03] <IMB-Seeker> 7following along

[21:03] <Bezalel3> 2I think Seeker fell asleep....I'll nudge him.

[21:03] <BobWestbrook> :)

[21:03] <tryChrist> 6k

[21:03] <IMB-Seeker> 7lol

[21:04] <tryChrist> 6but have the hick - ups....

[21:04] <kmmullins> boo

[21:04] <BobWestbrook> OK, that's the big picture, and I think you can see how the end of Ezekiel is loosely chronological

[21:04] <IMB-Seeker> 7Bez you better stop picking on me..:)

[21:04] <tryChrist> 6&-)

[21:04] <BobWestbrook> but not A follows B follows C like our orderly Western minds are used to

[21:04] <SabraFarrell489> 2this is good Bob. Thanks :)

[21:05] <BobWestbrook> like the book of Revelation, we have different "scenes"

[21:05] <Bezalel3> 2Did Ezekiel write this as it was given to him?

[21:05] <BobWestbrook> Not strictly chronological, but different viewpoints of the same events

[21:05] <Bezalel3> 2Or do we have any way of knowing that?

[21:05] <BobWestbrook> Good question, Bez - in his case, yes, I think, because...

[21:06] <BobWestbrook> in the various sections of the book he gives very specific dates about when he received certain revelations, much like Zecharaiah and Haggai did

[21:07] <Bezalel3> 2ty

[21:07] <IMB-Seeker> 7So now that you have touched on this Bob..where do you plan to pick up for nexr week...

[21:07] <IMB-Seeker> 7I mean 32 or what

[21:07] <BobWestbrook> I have no idea :)

[21:07] <BobWestbrook> LOL

[21:07] <IMB-Seeker> 7Hee

[21:08] <IMB-Seeker> 7okydokey

[21:08] <BobWestbrook> We can go into detail if you all would like, chapter by chapter

[21:08] <Bezalel3> 2There goes the leader, we must follow

[21:08] <kmmullins> yes

[21:08] <tryChrist> 6that would be good...

[21:08] <IMB-Seeker> 7I just want to study ahead

[21:08] <SabraFarrell489> 2yes

[21:08] <Sparrow26> yes

[21:08] <BobWestbrook> OK, well, then we will plan to do that, starting with 33

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[21:09] <BobWestbrook> not verse by verse, but hitting the high points

[21:09] <SabraFarrell489> 2the outline you just gave us can help us study ahead

[21:09] <BobWestbrook> Hi Gran!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[21:09] <GranBland> 6:-)shalom my dear ones

[21:09] <piks7275> 6HI GRAQN

[21:09] <Bezalel3> 2Gran, shalom.....good to see you felt up to coming in.

[21:09] <IMB-Seeker> 7Hi Gran

[21:09] <tryChrist> 6Shalom Gran

[21:09] <SabraFarrell489> 2GRAN!! :)

[21:09] <piks7275> 6GRAN HI

[21:09] <BobWestbrook> Gran! So good to see you!!

[21:09] <GranBland> 6I have missed you all very much

[21:09] <kmmullins> Hi Gran

[21:09] <BobWestbrook> And we have missed you also

[21:09] <IMB-Seeker> 7yes the High points

[21:09] <SabraFarrell489> 2same here dear Gran

[21:10] <GranBland> 6HI HI HI to all of you

[21:10] <piks7275> 6I have missed you too Gran it is I skip

[21:10] <tryChrist> 6perhaps we could invite the world leaders so they know for sure what will really happen despite their attempts...

[21:10] <GranBland> 6me you all tooooooooooooooooooooooo

[21:10] <BobWestbrook> ah - skip=piks - boy am I slow :)

[21:10] <IMB-Seeker> 7Bob..I may be a challenging sort of guy..so forgive me in advance..ok?

[21:10] <piks7275> 6:->

[21:10] <BobWestbrook> Good point, Miller

[21:10] <Bezalel3> 2Stan even called her Skip at one point.

[21:10] <BobWestbrook> Seeker, that's what keeps it interesting :)

[21:11] <BobWestbrook> I forgot my mirror :)

[21:11] <BobWestbrook> skip=piks

[21:11] <IMB-Seeker> 7Ok...me too

[21:11] <piks7275> 6ok ok :-)

[21:11] <GranBland> 6skip one name is fine

[21:12] <tryChrist> 6i've often wondered how the leaders can have a personal religious conviction and rule as they do

[21:12] <BobWestbrook> It is somewhat puzzling, Miller

[21:12] <IMB-Seeker> 7I just found out I was using my daughters phone line so I am leaving and will be right back..

[21:12] <kmmullins> Good point

[21:12] <Bezalel3> 2Most of them, Miller, have humanism as their religion.

[21:12] <GranBland> 6Miller regious convictions really means nothing

[21:12] <BobWestbrook> I guess, like we all tend to "compartmentalize" in a sense, they keep their "religion" separate

[21:13] <GranBland> 6we can all be regligious about anything and not know Jesus

[21:13] <BobWestbrook> right

[21:13] <piks7275> 6I want to have some faith in GW Bush but looking at the bible I dont think any Leader is trustworthy

[21:13] <Bezalel3> 2Way to go, dad.....

[21:13] <tryChrist> 6now now...isn't that a bit judgemental

[21:13] <BobWestbrook> Well, Bush seems sincere, but he does have a lot of other influences pulling him

[21:13] <GranBland> 6we must all remember to pray for our Pres Bush and all the rest daily

[21:13] <BobWestbrook> yes

[21:13] <GranBland> 6they need our prayer strength

[21:14] <BobWestbrook> He's surprised me in some good ways, and some not so good ways

[21:14] <GranBland> 6with out that they really get weaker

[21:14] <tryChrist> 6absolutely.... i wonder what he thinks when he's alone

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[21:14] <Sparrow26> True, Gran

[21:14] <IMB-Seeker916> 7Back

[21:14] <tryChrist> 6welcome back seeker

[21:14] <BobWestbrook> the worst was the way he characterized Islam as a "good" religion that provides guidance

[21:14] <kmmullins> i have to go and walk my dog,s this was a great time ith all of mydear friends God bless you

[21:14] <BobWestbrook> That's right Gran

[21:14] <IMB-Seeker916> 7ty

[21:14] <GranBland> 6well I have found that out in the past that we have let our leaders down by not praying for them

[21:14] <BobWestbrook> See ya next time km

[21:14] <Bezalel3> 2Night, Karen.

[21:15] <IMB-Seeker916> 7Bye Karen

[21:15] <BobWestbrook> Very good point, Gran

[21:15] <piks7275> 6Shalom KM

[21:15] <GranBland> 6night Karen love you

[21:15] <IMB-Seeker916> 7Thanks for the emails

[21:15] <kmmullins> you bet you will

[21:15] <GranBland> 6seeler dear good to see you

[21:15] <tryChrist> 6yes, prayer is a must...a command!

[21:15] <kmmullins> you are most welome seeker

[21:15] <IMB-Seeker916> 7Hi Gran

[21:15] <IMB-Seeker916> 7glad to see you too

[21:15] <GranBland> 6oops sekker

[21:15] <GranBland> 6seeker

[21:15] <IMB-Seeker916> 7Love to you Karen

[21:15] <GranBland> 6finally got it right

[21:15] <BobWestbrook> :)

[21:16] <piks7275> 6thanlks Gran for reminding me

[21:16] <IMB-Seeker916> 7It's ok Ive been called worse

[21:16] <GranBland> 6well dear the Lord has to remind me often

[21:16] <tryChrist> 6ole george did speak on islam as being peace oriented and we need to see their side...

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[21:16] <kmmullins> love you to my friend

[21:16] <GranBland> 6on that one he really has me concerned

[21:16] <IMB-Seeker916> 7ty Karen

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[21:17] <kmmullins> by

[21:17] <GranBland> 6he needs much prayer support to get that right

[21:17] <tryChrist> 6correct me if i'm wrong, but we are infidels to islam and they can lie if they need to

[21:17] <BobWestbrook> Yes, the worst part about Sept 11 is that many many more people are investigating Islam as a possible faith

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[21:17] <GranBland> 6he needs to read the Koran and see what it does say

[21:17] <BobWestbrook> Welcome, MusicGuy, to Bible Prophecy Chat!

[21:17] <IMB-Seeker916> 7I think it is being reinvestigated

[21:17] <GranBland> 6yes that really has me puzzled

[21:17] <BobWestbrook> Thats right Miller

[21:17] <IMB-Seeker916> 7I remember when I was younger

[21:17] <Bezalel3> 2I wonder how much of that is lies. People looking for references being counted as converts, etc.

[21:17] <GranBland> 6music guy welcome

[21:17] <Musicguy70> hi

[21:18] <IMB-Seeker916> 7it was taught us that it was another legitimate Faith

[21:18] <BobWestbrook> Well, I've personally seen a lot of interest in it

[21:18] <BobWestbrook> Islam, that is

[21:18] <GranBland> 6well I was not taught anything about it but Arafat did

[21:18] <GranBland> 6Islam yes

[21:18] <tryChrist> 6scary stuff...do our leaders at least understand that part?

[21:18] <GranBland> 6it seems that some don't

[21:18] <BobWestbrook> Perhaps not... but here is something not well known......

[21:18] <GranBland> 6and some christians are being taken in it seems

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[21:19] <piks7275> 6????

[21:19] <BobWestbrook> did you know that our CIA for decades supported and assisted radical Islamic groups, back in the cold war days, as a way of reducing and countering Communism?

[21:19] <GranBland> 6there are books written by muslims warning us what the koran really does say

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[21:19] <BobWestbrook> Many of the current groups that are so dangerous now were nurtured by our own CIA

[21:19] <tryChrist> 62no...

[21:19] <IMB-Seeker916> 7It doesn't surprise me Bob

[21:19] <GranBland> 6I didn't but then am not surprised at anything the CIA does

[21:19] <Bezalel3> 2The CIA also supported Fidel Castro.

[21:20] <GranBland> 6about like the UN unreaaliable

[21:20] <IMB-Seeker916> 7yes they did Bez..thats right

[21:20] <GranBland> 6Oh boy what a mess

[21:20] <BobWestbrook> It sure is a mess

[21:20] <Bezalel3> 2Just goes to show, only the Lord knows our hearts.

[21:20] <IMB-Seeker916> 7The world does what the world does

[21:20] <Sparrow26> Voice of the Martyrs has excellent information.

[21:20] <Sparrow26> on Islam

[21:20] <GranBland> 6also I have heard that we have supported the palestinians

[21:21] <GranBland> 6yess Sparrraw it does

[21:21] <IMB-Seeker916> 7Have Ryan and Stan left

[21:21] <GranBland> 6yes Bez for sure

[21:21] <BobWestbrook> well, Saudi Arabia has poured untold millions of dollars into various radical groups

[21:21] <BobWestbrook> Yes, Ryan and Stan quietly bowed out :)

[21:21] <IMB-Seeker916> 7k

[21:21] <GranBland> 6yes but then they are arabs so not surprising

[21:21] <tryChrist> 2i can understand politics for what they are and religion for what it is... but what i can't understand is why they allow such treachery all in the name of "peace"full well knowing that it is just a game of chess to them anyway....

[21:21] <piks7275> 5doesnt the bible say in the last days no not one nation stands with Israel?

[21:22] <BobWestbrook> yes, Skip

[21:22] <tryChrist> 2am i babbleing

[21:22] <BobWestbrook> no, not at all, Miller

[21:22] <GranBland> 6yes skip I believe so

[21:22] <GranBland> 6no Miller you are not

[21:22] <IMB-Seeker916> 7Let me think about that :)

[21:22] <GranBland> 6oh gosh it is so good to be with you all

[21:22] <tryChrist> 2good..slap me if i do (and seeker) don't use a trout

[21:22] <GranBland> 6did hate to miss Stan tho

[21:22] <IMB-Seeker916> 7lol

[21:23] <piks7275> 5so I am not surprised what the Leaders do in private

[21:23] <BobWestbrook> The more I read, the more I realize that so much of what we hear is just for public consumption, that we often don't get much of the real story until later on

[21:23] <Bezalel3> 2And don't use the cleaver, either, Seeker.

[21:23] <GranBland> 6no one knows what they do anyway only the father

[21:23] <IMB-Seeker916> 7could be a poem in that Bez

[21:23] <tryChrist> 2i agree 110%

[21:23] <tryChrist> 2the media is just another pawn some times

[21:23] <GranBland> 6sometimes???

[21:24] <GranBland> 6the media is what the world seems to turn on

[21:24] <Bezalel3> 2The media is also an active stirrer of problems....

[21:24] <tryChrist> 2well, there are things that are all to obvious

[21:24] <GranBland> 6but old Ted Turner is getting his come upance

[21:24] <BobWestbrook> But it is interesting, I think, when someone like Bush comes along, who, despite any faults, is clearly different

[21:24] <piks7275> 5amen BEZ

[21:24] <tryChrist> 2but generally non important

[21:24] <GranBland> 6over his dumb speah at Brouwn

[21:24] <GranBland> 6speach

[21:24] <BobWestbrook> and is a man who is going to accomplish God's purposes for Israel in this day in ways that we are not yet aware of

[21:24] <GranBland> 6oh boy need to slow down

[21:25] <tryChrist> 2true

[21:25] <IMB-Seeker916> 7I wonder if turner is sorry he gave away a billion to the UN

[21:25] <GranBland> 6fast fingers hit wrong keys

[21:25] <piks7275> 5lol

[21:25] <GranBland> 6I don't think he is sorry he did anything

[21:25] <IMB-Seeker916> 7He hasn't gotten much publicity for it

[21:25] <GranBland> 6no I had not even heard about that give away

[21:26] <GranBland> 6he usually does stuff for big smiles

[21:26] <IMB-Seeker916> 7well sure..he was looking for attention'

[21:26] <tryChrist> 2i wonder if ole GB even knows how he plays a part in all this, religously speaking that is

[21:26] <BobWestbrook> that's an interesting question, Miller

[21:26] <GranBland> 6does anyone know anything about the man Delta mentioned that maybe able to get in as the new leader in Israel

[21:26] <BobWestbrook> Ole Harry Truman saw himself as a modern-day "Cyrus"

[21:27] <tryChrist> 2i even wonder what arafat thinks at times...scary, but interesting none the less

[21:27] <Sparrow26> Although you have to search for it, his counsels are all Christians, especially Rumsfeld.

[21:27] <Bezalel3> 2Arafat a modern day Pharoah.

[21:27] <GranBland> 6I think old rag head has one thing in mind getting rid of Israel

[21:27] <BobWestbrook> Yes, Gran, he's young, and quite "right wing" but very much on the mark most of the time, though a bit strident at times (Feiglin, that is)

[21:27] <BobWestbrook> Yeah, Bez

[21:28] <GranBland> 6doesn;'t rtake much thinking to do that

[21:28] <GranBland> 6oh well I had not heard about him before

[21:28] <GranBland> 6but Sharon has been called on the carpet by his own party

[21:28] <BobWestbrook> Very good analogy - just as Pharoah was raised up in his obstinence to bring God glory as He delivered Israel through mighty deeds, so is Arafat today

[21:28] <tryChrist> 2yes, that is true gran, but if he truely thinks it what is right, and he is not a real psycho, then he is only following his religion....sorry i can think to much

[21:29] <Bezalel3> 2I think Sharon and Bush are relying on Arafat keeping his hard heart by offering a state under certain conditions.

[21:29] <Bezalel3> 2They know he'll never agree to the strings.

[21:29] <GranBland> 6well I believe you are correct there Miller

[21:29] <BobWestbrook> It still looks very much like Netanyahu will be the next PM at some point

[21:30] <BobWestbrook> good point, Bez

[21:30] <Bezalel3> 2Stan seems to like the idea of Bibi coming to power.

[21:30] <piks7275> 5I agree bob

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[21:31] <BobWestbrook> Yes, Stan likes him a lot, and Bibi does seem more resolute now that he has seemingly learned some lessons from his first go-round

[21:31] <piks7275> 5poor sparrow

[21:31] <Bezalel3> 2Oh, oh there goes Gran....

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[21:31] <Bezalel3> 2Sheeeessss back.

[21:31] <GranBland> 6I still believe that the Father had a hand in Arafat turning down all that was going to be handed him

[21:31] <BobWestbrook> Yes, indeed, Gran!

[21:31] <piks7275> 5amengran

[21:31] <GranBland> 6two or three times at that

[21:31] <GranBland> 6I was shocked at what was offered

[21:32] <BobWestbrook> Yes, it was shocking

[21:32] <GranBland> 6and he turned it down but was praying about it

[21:32] <GranBland> 6the Father will not allow Arafat to get Jerusalme

[21:32] <GranBland> 6Jerusalem

[21:32] <tryChrist> 2thing that gets me fired up is arafat making his loyalty speaches to his own, and then turning around a telling the peaceful nations that he is under attack by the big bad israel and he just wants peace....then goes back to his guys again and tells them to prpare for jihad and push them into the sea

[21:32] <BobWestbrook> well, in the chapters we will look at, 35-37, we will see how the whole "West Bank" and Islam issues is resolved

[21:33] <GranBland> 6or anyone else for that matter

[21:33] <GranBland> 6shows how satan manipulates the world

[21:33] <Bezalel3> 2Yes, Miller, a million martyrs to Jerusalem.

[21:33] <BobWestbrook> Yes, Miller, he is the epitome of hypocrisy

[21:33] <GranBland> 6what book Bob

[21:33] <Bezalel3> 2while writing the NY Times piece.....

[21:33] <tryChrist> 2yes, manipulator

[21:34] <BobWestbrook> And even some of the Western leaders are getting quite fed up with his blatant duplicity

[21:34] <BobWestbrook> Ezekiel, Gran

[21:34] <GranBland> 6thanks

[21:34] <Bezalel3> 2The Karine A may serve as his final downfall. He was caught with his hand in the cookie jar on that one.

[21:34] <BobWestbrook> and a big jar it was

[21:34] <tryChrist> 2i hope so, i can't understand how they could put up with it for so long. perhaps there is a language barrier in there some place

[21:35] <Bezalel3> 2:-)

[21:35] <GranBland> 6what was that Bez

[21:35] <GranBland> 6all that on the boat

[21:35] <Bezalel3> 2The boat full of weapons headed for the PA.

[21:35] <GranBland> 6OK I thougnt so

[21:35] <tryChrist> 2double talk or some thing... but it is quite obvious to all

[21:36] <GranBland> 6just didn't remember the name of it

[21:36] <GranBland> 6and the world keeps blaming Israel

[21:36] <GranBland> 6for being the terriorist country

[21:37] <Bezalel3> 2Arafat may have also called down the dogs of war by loosing the Kassem missiles.

[21:37] <GranBland> 6but then unles one is a real Christian or a real Jew they just don't know what the Father gave to Abarhams seed

[21:37] <tryChrist> 2yea, big bad israel, protecting themselves..... they shoot at military targets and the pa shoots at civilians

[21:37] <piks7275> 5Bob now that G-D has restored israel he will not let them be disperesed again will he?

[21:37] <GranBland> 6yep

[21:37] <GranBland> 6I sure wish the PM would act like a real man and do them some real damage

[21:37] <BobWestbrook> Good question Skip, and the answer is yes, and no, apparently....

[21:38] <Bezalel3> 2Yes, Miller, and also Israel usually gives warning before blowing up a security headquarters.

[21:38] <tryChrist> 2thats another political move Bez

[21:38] <GranBland> 6also we need to pray often tha t Bush will keep ;his promise to but our embassy in Jerusaems

[21:38] <GranBland> 6Jerusalem

[21:38] <tryChrist> 2gran...oopps

[21:38] <piks7275> 5but he will let them suffer tho right

[21:38] <GranBland> 6I keep doing that

[21:38] <BobWestbrook> It seems, that according to Revelation, that when the "Beast" is in power at the end He will attempt to kill the Jews, but God will supernaturally protect them

[21:39] <GranBland> 6yes and maybe the end is not toooooooo far away

[21:39] <BobWestbrook> Many believe that that will be in what is now Jordan, which will, I believe, soon be part of Israel itself

[21:39] <tryChrist> 2the signs are there

[21:39] <piks7275> 5that will be when Israel "RUNS for the hills"?

[21:39] <GranBland> 6for Petra and Bosra

[21:39] <Bezalel3> 2More like, "flies" to the hills.

[21:39] <BobWestbrook> So..... given that scenario, they will not be leaving Israel, just relocating to the East Bank where God protects them

[21:39] <GranBland> 6yes an eagle wings

[21:39] <GranBland> 6on

[21:40] <BobWestbrook> Petra and Bozrah, yes - there are a number of Scriptures that seem to indicate that area

[21:40] <GranBland> 6yes

[21:40] <piks7275> 5I hope Stan lets me know when the 2 witnesses start in Jerusalem

[21:41] <GranBland> 6Ha ha

[21:41] <BobWestbrook> The two witnesses, as I understand it, will be during the final 3 1/2 years when the "Beast" is in power

[21:41] <GranBland> 6no aactually the Father will let it be known

[21:41] <GranBland> 6yes

[21:41] <IMB-Seeker916> 7Seeker being still

[21:41] <BobWestbrook> :)

[21:41] <IMB-Seeker916> 7:)

[21:42] <GranBland> 6Gran making up for lost weeks

[21:42] <Bezalel3> 2After the rapture, huh, Bob???? (Bez runs and ducks behind a BIG rock)

[21:42] <GranBland> 6of silence

[21:42] <BobWestbrook> :)

[21:42] <BobWestbrook> After the rapture if it is pre-trib :)

[21:42] <GranBland> 6on that one I am silent

[21:42] <Bezalel3> 2I'm hiding, Gran.....

[21:43] <GranBland> 6since we really don't know what pretend?

[21:43] <GranBland> 6why

[21:43] <Bezalel3> 2Noone can see me......:-)

[21:43] <GranBland> 6pretend sheesh

[21:43] <GranBland> 6fingers flashing here

[21:43] <GranBland> 6hitting wrong keys

[21:43] <IMB-Seeker916> 7you can run but u can't hide Bez

[21:43] <BobWestbrook> Otherwise, when Israel flees, the Beast turns against the Christians and kills millions of them

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[21:43] <Bezalel3> 2But, I have Seeker's cleaver for protection.

[21:43] <BobWestbrook> According to Rev 12 and Daniel

[21:44] <tryChrist> 2??? question ???

[21:44] <BobWestbrook> The Fifth Seal

[21:44] <BobWestbrook> Yes?

[21:44] <tryChrist> 2are you familiar with Matt 13:24-30 tears among the wheat

[21:44] <BobWestbrook> lets take a look

[21:45] <BobWestbrook> (Matthew 13:24-26 NIV) Jesus told them another parable: "The kingdom of heaven is like a man who sowed good seed in his field. {25} But while everyone was sleeping, his enemy came and sowed weeds among the wheat, and went away. {26} When the wheat sprouted and formed heads, then the weeds also appeared.

[21:45] <BobWestbrook> (Matthew 13:26-29 NIV) When the wheat sprouted and formed heads, then the weeds also appeared. {27} "The owner's servants came to him and said, 'Sir, didn't you sow good seed in your field? Where then did the weeds come from?' {28} "'An enemy did this,' he replied. "The servants asked him, 'Do you want us to go and pull them up?' {29} "'No,' he answered, 'because while you are pulling the weeds, you may root up the wheat with them.

[21:45] <tryChrist> 2it just sound so much like today to me. this has been on my heart for the past week

[21:45] <BobWestbrook> (Matthew 13:30 NIV) Let both grow together until the harvest. At that time I will tell the harvesters: First collect the weeds and tie them in bundles to be burned; then gather the wheat and bring it into my barn.'"

[21:46] <Bezalel3> 2Somebody mentioned that in the forums, too.....the tares being removed first.

[21:46] <BobWestbrook> This is about God's grace, and ultimate judgment - He allows the "weeds" to prosper in this life, and even at times be imposters among the "good seed", but at the end it will all be sorted out

[21:47] <Bezalel3> 2Using His timing, huh, Bob?

[21:47] <tryChrist> 2jsu t sounds like today

[21:47] <BobWestbrook> Well, Revelation does speak of two times when the sickle is reaped, once for the righteous and once for the wicked

[21:47] <BobWestbrook> but neither is pre-trib

[21:47] <tryChrist> 2being in the church age (summer) awaiting the final harvets

[21:47] <Bezalel3> 2LOL, Bob

[21:47] <BobWestbrook> That's in Rev 14

[21:47] <BobWestbrook> two sickles swinging in quick succession

[21:48] <GranBland> 6well also we must remember that Jesus did not say that we would be spared only that we must pray for protection

[21:48] <BobWestbrook> the second being the "great winepress of God's wrath.

[21:48] <GranBland> 6yes

[21:48] <BobWestbrook> the first being the harvesting of God's people

[21:48] <Bezalel3> 2And there are warnings to the nations that they will drink from the cup of God's wrath.

[21:48] <BobWestbrook> yes, indeed

[21:48] <GranBland> 6yes

[21:49] <BobWestbrook> Jeremiah 25

[21:49] <GranBland> 6its really amazing how you folks have turned around my thinking on this matter the first year we all got together

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[21:49] <tryChrist> 2that scripture , plus Eph 5:13-16 have been on my heart all week!!!!

[21:49] <BobWestbrook> Welcome back piksskip

[21:49] <GranBland> 6I was so set on pre-trib because I wanted it to be so

[21:50] <GranBland> 6Skip WB

[21:50] <BobWestbrook> Yes, Gran, I suppose many cannot suppose it could be otherwise

[21:50] <piks7275> 5HI

[21:50] <GranBland> 6well I was taught both ways

[21:50] <BobWestbrook> too many supposes in that sentence, I suppose :)

[21:50] <GranBland> 6'and chose the easy one

[21:50] <GranBland> 6but that does not change the truth

[21:50] <BobWestbrook> that's right

[21:51] <GranBland> 6we believe that christians surely will protected

[21:51] <GranBland> 6but then perhaps thats part of the replacement theroy

[21:51] <piks7275> 5sorry but I got bumped after i asked the last ??/ so i missed aNY ANSWER

[21:51] <GranBland> 6now I have to work to reeducate my children

[21:52] <BobWestbrook> Well, one way or another, many many "Christians" will be martyed as a part of the 5th seal - and its only presumption to suppose that it could not be US

[21:52] <GranBland> 6I was already bumped ship so didn't read it

[21:52] <piks7275> 5SO WILL ANYONE KNOW WHEN TRIB STARTS ?

[21:52] <GranBland> 6yes when it starts we will know

[21:52] <BobWestbrook> if we define the trib as the "Day of the Lord" yes, certainly

[21:52] <piks7275> 5how will we know for sure?

[21:53] <BobWestbrook> because all hell will break loose on earth during that final 3 1/2 years of God's judgment

[21:53] <BobWestbrook> but.....

[21:53] <BobWestbrook> if you define the trib as seven years (which is to me a little iffy anyway) perhaps not

[21:53] <piks7275> 5what about the 1st 3 years?

[21:54] <piks7275> 5right Bob

[21:54] <BobWestbrook> but the final 3 1/2 for sure, because you will see (a) the Beast take power and declare Himself as God (b) the 2 witnesses and (c) a whole lot of Christians killed

[21:54] <tryChrist> 2 7 year peace treaty?

[21:54] <BobWestbrook> good question Miller - that final seven years will apparently start with the AC making a

[21:54] <BobWestbrook> "covenant with the many"

[21:54] <piks7275> 5I am wondering if that point is getting real close

[21:55] <tryChrist> 2dan. 9 :24-27

[21:55] <BobWestbrook> whether or not that is a peace treaty is questionable

[21:55] <BobWestbrook> it is some kind of covenant or agreement

[21:55] <Bezalel3> 2Do you still see the regional war happening before trib, Bob?

[21:55] <GranBland> 6sounds like what Arafat says

[21:55] <BobWestbrook> but he will not be the ruler of the world yet apparently, because Rev says he has power for 42 months (3 1/2 years)

[21:56] <GranBland> 6promises, promises

[21:56] <BobWestbrook> Yes, Bez

[21:56] <piks7275> 5the POPE or popes are calling for peace

[21:56] <tryChrist> 2the tribulation seems to always get trapped in a game of vocabulary

[21:56] <BobWestbrook> yes, Miller

[21:56] <Bezalel3> 2Quick question, Bob?

[21:56] <BobWestbrook> Sure, Bez

[21:56] <tryChrist> 2i prefer the great trib or daniels 70th week

[21:56] <GranBland> 6BRB

[21:57] <Bezalel3> 2I'm reading a book, in which he states that time, times, and half a time is also an euphemism for an indefinite period. Have you heard of this before?

[21:57] <BobWestbrook> It is only during the latter part of the week that God's wrath comes down on the earth

[21:57] <tryChrist> 2that would be 31/2 years

[21:57] <tryChrist> 2?

[21:58] <piks7275> 5lots of natural disasters and wars

[21:58] <BobWestbrook> Not really, but I don't buy it, because there are other places where time, times, and half a time is referred to as 42 months and so forth

[21:58] <BobWestbrook> so we know pretty sure that it is 3 1/2 years

[21:58] <Bezalel3> 2Okay.

[21:58] <IMB-Seeker916> 7However?

[21:58] <tryChrist> 2uh oh

[21:58] <BobWestbrook> yes, Seeker? :)

[21:59] <IMB-Seeker916> 7Just thought I would throw that in

[21:59] <BobWestbrook> LOL

[21:59] <IMB-Seeker916> 7U guys know How I feel

[21:59] <tryChrist> 2keep the trout out of this

[21:59] <BobWestbrook> Always need a good "however" now and then :)

[21:59] <piks7275> 5lol

[21:59] <IMB-Seeker916> 7ok Miller

[21:59] <Sparrow26> food for thought

[21:59] <tryChrist> 2slimy old thing

[21:59] <Bezalel3> 2I've got the cleaver, Miller, so he can't use that.

[21:59] <IMB-Seeker916> 7lol

[21:59] <piks7275> 5ANYWAY it will be a time period

[21:59] <BobWestbrook> Go ahead, you won't get censored or slapped for a divergent opinion :)

[21:59] <Sparrow26> clever, leave the cleaver out of this

[21:59] <tryChrist> 2leave it to...

[22:00] <IMB-Seeker916> 7boy its a good thing I got a sense of humor

[22:00] <BobWestbrook> Pass me the cleaver :)

[22:00] <BobWestbrook> no censor or slap, but a good cleaver shot :)

[22:00] <Bezalel3> 2Here, Bob, it's all yours.

[22:00] <GranBland> 6Seeker however what he he

[22:00] <GranBland> 6you are being silly again Seeker

[22:00] <piks7275> 5looks to me like the world and earth are already getting punished

[22:01] <IMB-Seeker916> 7lets say I am..maybe I can go gracefully that way

[22:01] <GranBland> 6yes wars and rumors of wars earthquakes etc

[22:01] <tryChrist> 2punished...or is G-d getting our attention and preparing us

[22:01] <BobWestbrook> Having said all that, I'd also say its a good bet that all of our scenarios are a bit off the mark

[22:01] <piks7275> 5birth pains

[22:01] <GranBland> 6ummm

[22:01] <IMB-Seeker916> 7yes Bob

[22:01] <GranBland> 6quite so

[22:01] <Sparrow26> It is good to have an open mind

[22:01] <Bezalel3> 2or wildly off the mark, Bob.

[22:01] <GranBland> 6yep

[22:02] <GranBland> 6closed mind is not good

[22:02] <BobWestbrook> yeah :) like a cleaver thrown with a blindfold :)

[22:02] <IMB-Seeker916> 7present company excluded Bez?

[22:02] <Bezalel3> 2Yes, Seeker, excepting you......

[22:02] <IMB-Seeker916> 7O Man

[22:02] <Bezalel3> 2LOL

[22:03] <IMB-Seeker916> 7just for that, you maybe leading Bible study tomorrow

[22:03] <GranBland> 6now boys

[22:03] <Bezalel3> 2Sure, the blind (or stupid) leading the blind (and smart)?

[22:03] <BobWestbrook> Well, friends, time for me to wrap it up, but I'll leave the room open so you all can chat more if you wish, and we'll catch it on the log for tomorrow

[22:03] <IMB-Seeker916> 7hee hee

[22:03] <GranBland> 6Gran scolding

[22:03] <BobWestbrook> It's been great getting together again

[22:04] <tryChrist> 2so, jsut to pry abit, if we all wake up tomorrow to a 7 year peace treaty, what would you think

[22:04] <GranBland> 6Bez

[22:04] <IMB-Seeker916> 7thanks so much Bob

[22:04] <GranBland> 6uh uh now

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[22:04] <Bezalel3> 2Yes, Bob. Thank you so much for your patience with our exuberance.

[22:04] <tryChrist> 2thanks Bob, shalom

[22:04] <tryChrist> 2leave the cleaver

[22:04] <Sparrow26> Shalom, Bob and have a good night

[22:04] <BobWestbrook> I enjoy it immensely - my pleasure

[22:04] <GranBland> 6oh Bob youi leaving

[22:04] <piks7275> 5Thanks Bob for your insight

[22:04] <BobWestbrook> Here's the cleaver - use it judicously :)

[22:04] <GranBland> 6God bless you

[22:04] <GranBland> 6good to see you again finally

[22:04] <BobWestbrook> God bless all of you - Good night!

[22:05] <Bezalel3> 2Watch out, Seeker......

[22:05] <BobWestbrook> thanks, Gran :)

[22:05] <IMB-Seeker916> 7ducking

[22:05] <GranBland> 6byeeeeeeeeeee Bob

[22:05] <piks7275> 5SHALOM BOB and all of YOU

[22:05] <GranBland> 6Seeker Gran will protect you from the bad boys

[22:05] <Bezalel3> 2Night, Skip....

[22:05] <GranBland> 6but you be good too

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[22:05] <GranBland> 6Skip shaom see you soon

[22:05] <IMB-Seeker916> 7ok...see some of you tomorrow night

[22:05] <GranBland> 6shalom that is

[22:05] <Sparrow26> yes, what time?

[22:05] <GranBland> 6oh time is up OK

[22:05] <piks7275> 5it has been so good to visit with you

[22:05] <tryChrist> 2i'll be at shuel..

[22:06] <GranBland> 6see you tomorrow sure

[22:06] <IMB-Seeker916> 7ok Miller

[22:06] <GranBland> 6good not dear ones

[22:06] <GranBland> 6god bless you all

[22:06] <piks7275> 5nite GRAN

[22:06] <IMB-Seeker916> 7bye Bez

[22:06] <IMB-Seeker916> 7Bye Gran

[22:06] <IMB-Seeker916> 7and dawn

[22:06] <tryChrist> 2say a SHABBAT SHALOM to all tomorrow

[22:06] <Bezalel3> 2Bye, Brother....

[22:06] <piks7275> 5G_D BLESS YOU ALL

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[22:06] <Sparrow26> bye seeker

[22:06] <IMB-Seeker916> 7and Miller

[22:06] <tryChrist> 2night

[22:06] <IMB-Seeker916> 7and skip

[22:06] <IMB-Seeker916> 7night all

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[22:07] <Bezalel3> 2I think I'll call it a night all too. So night all.

[22:07] <GranBland> 6night

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[22:07] <tryChrist> 2me too. it was good as always. Praise His Holy Name!

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[22:08] <Sparrow26> Thank you, Jesus.

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*** Log file closed: 2/14/02 10:10:29 PM