*** Log file opened: 4/26/01 8:03:36 PM

[20:04] Bezalel-VHL [~Bezalel-VHL@jproxy14.talkcity.com] has joined #VHL-Chitchat

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[20:04] <Bezalel-VHL> Hi Bob!

[20:05] <Bezalel-VHL> 2I was getting worried. Didn't see the Prophesy Room or anyone in Chitchat.

[20:05] <Ken-VHL> Hi Bob, Bez,. Why are we HERE?

[20:05] <Bezalel-VHL> 2I don't know if Bob is here at the moment.

[20:05] <VCI-Bob> Hi folks!

[20:05] <VCI-Bob> I'm here

[20:05] <Bezalel-VHL> 2There he is.....

[20:06] <Ken-VHL> There he is!

[20:06] <VCI-Bob> The VHL main page wasn't updated today, that's why no link to prophecy chat

[20:06] <Bezalel-VHL> 2He is there!

[20:06] <VCI-Bob> But I see you found your way in OK!

[20:06] <Ken-VHL> Oh!

[20:06] <Bezalel-VHL> 2I may have to leave early and quickly. Grandson has a baseball game.

[20:06] <VCI-Bob> Go grandson!

[20:07] <Bezalel-VHL> 2:-)

[20:07] <Ken-VHL> Yes:-)

[20:07] <Bezalel-VHL> 2Actually they both have a game, at the same location and time.

[20:07] <Ken-VHL> Opposing teams?

[20:08] <Bezalel-VHL> 2Nope, fields along side each other.

[20:08] <Ken-VHL> Tennis neck, anyone?

[20:08] <Bezalel-VHL> 2Yup.

[20:08] <VCI-Bob> Sounds like a fun night!

[20:09] <VCI-Bob> Not much better than that - sunshine, grandkids, outdoors :)

[20:09] <Bezalel-VHL> 2It's about the only outside I see anymore.

[20:09] <Ken-VHL> Sunshine in WA?

[20:10] <VCI-Bob> JERUSALEM (April 27) - As Israel marked the transition from Remembrance Day to celebrations of its 53rd Independence Day, the Jerusalem neighborhood of Gilo again came under fire, after four Fatah members were killed in an explosion south of Rafah in the Gaza Strip on Wednesday night.

[20:10] <VCI-Bob> Fatah vowed to avenge the deaths of the four, one a member of the Palestinian Preventive Security Service and another identified as Ramdan Azam, a leader of the Popular Resistance group.

[20:10] <VCI-Bob> (from Jpost)

[20:10] <VCI-Bob> Tens of thousands of Palestinians flocked to the funeral yesterday of the four in the southern Gaza Strip. Angry mourners marched through Rafah, vowing to pursue their armed struggle.

[20:10] <VCI-Bob> Palestinian officials blamed the deaths on what they said was a bomb detonated by remote control. Masked gunmen fired in the air at the funeral, and Hamas activists vowed to retaliate by sending six suicide bombers into the heart of Israel.

[20:11] <VCI-Bob> Conflicting Palestinian reports stated that the four had set out to plant a bomb near army tanks and were killed by an explosion detonated by soldiers.

[20:11] <VCI-Bob> Other reports claim that they were killed in a bomb detonated by remote control from an Israeli aircraft overhead. Another report claimed they were about to defuse a bomb when it was detonated by soldiers using a remote control.

[20:11] <Bezalel-VHL> 2The six bombers were probably released from PA prisons.

[20:11] <VCI-Bob> Yes, probably so

[20:12] <VCI-Bob> More news:

[20:12] <Ken-VHL> Go on,

[20:12] <VCI-Bob> The State Department's annual "Patterns of Global Terrorism Report" to be released on Monday cites Israeli claims that the main PLO faction, Fatah, took part in terrorist attacks toward the end of last year, but does not express a US position or hold Palestinian Authority Chairman Yasser Arafat responsible, US officials said yesterday.

[20:12] <VCI-Bob> Arafat always gets an easy out, it seems - he's the worlds darling

[20:13] <VCI-Bob> Though hard to call somebody that ugly "darling" -- his wife must have to take some pills to do it :)

[20:13] <Ken-VHL> I fear my comments to SD go off to cyberspace, or worse.

[20:14] <Ken-VHL> How can we make a difference?

[20:14] <Bezalel-VHL> 2She may smoke hashish...the preferred drug before entering battle for Allah.

[20:14] <VCI-Bob> The State Dept is notoriously more pro-Arab than most other sections of govt

[20:15] <Bezalel-VHL> 2Is that a carry-over from WWII?

[20:15] <VCI-Bob> Well, Ken, that's a good question....... prayer is #1

[20:15] <Ken-VHL> That is where I started!

[20:15] <VCI-Bob> Bez, it's been the case at least the last 100 years or so

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[20:16] <Ken-VHL> ARAB OIL!

[20:16] <VCI-Bob> The influence of the big oil in the State Dept is well documented

[20:16] <VCI-Bob> righto, Ken

[20:16] <Bezalel-VHL> 2I know that State was big in preventing saving refugees.

[20:16] <VCI-Bob> Welcome, Gran!

[20:16] <Gran-VHL> 6:-*:)

[20:16] <Gran-VHL> 6shalom

[20:16] <Bezalel-VHL> 2Hi Gran.

[20:16] <Ken-VHL> Shalom, Gran. Glad you found us!

[20:16] <VCI-Bob> Many of the bigshots over a period of time were groomed in big oil companies

[20:16] <Gran-VHL> 6Hi Bez did you have prob getting in Mon night too?

[20:17] <Bezalel-VHL> 2I was at a ball game Monday, Gran.

[20:17] <VCI-Bob> Monday night the chat was cancelled, Stan had PC problems of some sort

[20:17] <Gran-VHL> 6OH

[20:17] <Gran-VHL> 6yeah several of us were there and Stan got knocked off early

[20:18] <VCI-Bob> Remember him in your prayers - he's been burning the candle at both ends lately, and needs rest

[20:18] <Gran-VHL> 6sure will do here Bob and more than I have been doing

[20:18] <Ken-VHL> From your pc to God's Ear/Eye>

[20:18] <Gran-VHL> 6Bob that site giving the info on Bosrah and Petra are very interesting

[20:19] <VCI-Bob> Yes, it was fascinating, huh!

[20:19] <VCI-Bob> I'd like to go there the next time I visit Israel

[20:19] <Gran-VHL> 6something I read somewhere said that in Hebrew Bosrah means flock

[20:19] <Bezalel-VHL> 2I need to say good night. The ball field calls once again.

[20:19] <VCI-Bob> Yes, and there's an intruiging prophecy that may refer to that, Gran

[20:19] <Ken-VHL> Good luck, Bez

[20:19] <VCI-Bob> Night, Bez!

[20:19] <Gran-VHL> 6ok bEZ SEE YOU LATER

[20:19] <VCI-Bob> Love ya Bro!

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[20:20] <Gran-VHL> 6opps hit capital key

[20:20] <Gran-VHL> 6yes what do you have Bob

[20:20] <VCI-Bob> Actually, several prophecies that we can look at

[20:20] <Gran-VHL> 6OH Good

[20:20] <Ken-VHL> Lets

[20:20] <Gran-VHL> 6am all ears LOL

[20:20] <VCI-Bob> We'll start in Micah 2.... Lord, teach us, and guide us tonight

[20:21] <VCI-Bob> Micah 2:12-13

[20:21] <VCI-Bob> (Micah 2:12-13 NIV) "I will surely gather all of you, O Jacob; I will surely bring together the remnant of Israel. I will bring them together like sheep in a pen, like a flock in its pasture; the place will throng with people. {13} One who breaks open the way will go up before them; they will break through the gate and go out. Their king will pass through before them, the LORD at their head."

[20:21] <VCI-Bob> Anyone have a KJV?

[20:22] <Ken-VHL> I like that

[20:22] <Ken-VHL> yes.brb

[20:22] <Gran-VHL> 6nkj

[20:22] <Ken-VHL> ready

[20:22] <VCI-Bob> In v 12, rather than translate "pen" KJV transliterates the Hebrew word there....

[20:23] <VCI-Bob> you guessed it...

[20:23] <VCI-Bob> Bozrah :)

[20:23] <Ken-VHL> :-)

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[20:24] <VCI-Bob> This is KJV:

[20:24] <VCI-Bob> I will surely assemble, O Jacob, all of thee; I will surely gather the remnant of Israel; I will put them together as the sheep of Bozrah, as the flock in the midst of their fold: they shall make great noise by reason of the multitude of men.

[20:24] <VCI-Bob> Welcome, Seeker!

[20:24] <Seeker-VHL> 4Hi Yall

[20:24] <VCI-Bob> So, some have theorized....

[20:24] <Ken-VHL> shalom,seeker

[20:24] <Gran-VHL> 6shalom seeker

[20:25] <Seeker-VHL> 4Shalom

[20:25] <Gran-VHL> 6yes bob that is where I saw that Bosrah means flock

[20:25] <VCI-Bob> that this is speaking of the place that Rev 12 describes where Israel will be protected for 3 1/2 years

[20:25] <Gran-VHL> 6new KJ has it as an aside

[20:25] <VCI-Bob> and that the "breaker" is Jesus, who shows up and breaks them out of there

[20:25] <Gran-VHL> 6yes

[20:25] <VCI-Bob> (Micah 2:13 NASB) "The breaker goes up before them; They break out, pass through the gate, and go out by it. So their king goes on before them, And the LORD at their head."

[20:25] <VCI-Bob> Sounds like it fits to me!

[20:26] <VCI-Bob> This would mean, that when Jesus comes back.....

[20:27] <VCI-Bob> some have supposed that first He goes to Bozrah/Edom/Teman/Petra where the Jews have been hiding out

[20:27] <Gran-VHL> 6bob I have a reference here to Is 52:12

[20:27] <Gran-VHL> 6yes me too believe that Bob

[20:27] <VCI-Bob> (Isaiah 52:12 NIV) But you will not leave in haste or go in flight; for the LORD will go before you, the God of Israel will be your rear guard.

[20:28] <Gran-VHL> 6also Ex 12:11

[20:28] <VCI-Bob> There are several other prophecies that give strong support to that idea, which we will look at

[20:28] <Gran-VHL> 6ex 14:19,20

[20:28] <Seeker-VHL> 4Ok, what is the subject?:-)

[20:29] <Ken-VHL> . . best version, bob?

[20:29] <VCI-Bob> Yes, Gran, those refer to how he protected them ...in those days...

[20:29] <VCI-Bob> (Exodus 14:19 NIV) Then the angel of God, who had been traveling in front of Israel's army, withdrew and went behind them. The pillar of cloud also moved from in front and stood behind them,

[20:29] <VCI-Bob> and it will be similar...

[20:29] <Gran-VHL> 6yes

[20:29] <VCI-Bob> a verse comes to mind...

[20:29] <VCI-Bob> if I can find it :)

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[20:30] <VCI-Bob> This is a little later, but it illustrates that the Lord will do the same again in the future:

[20:30] <VCI-Bob> (Isaiah 4:5 NIV) Then the LORD will create over all of Mount Zion and over those who assemble there a cloud of smoke by day and a glow of flaming fire by night; over all the glory will be a canopy.

[20:30] <Gran-VHL> 6Bob isn't there one that refers to them escapiing on Eagle wiings

[20:30] <Seeker-VHL757> 4I guess I got bumped

[20:30] <Ken-VHL> I like the poetry of KJV, but better understand NIV.

[20:30] <VCI-Bob> oops, Seekr

[20:30] <Gran-VHL> 6or as on eagle wings

[20:31] <VCI-Bob> Ken, I often refer to several translations as aides to understanding

[20:31] <VCI-Bob> Yes, Gran, that's in Rev 12

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[20:31] <VCI-Bob> Seeker..

[20:31] <Gran-VHL> 6yes OK

[20:31] <Ken-VHL> Of course!

[20:31] <Seeker-VHL757> 4I'm hear

[20:32] <VCI-Bob> we are examing prophecies that may be speaking of God's protection of Israel for 3 1/2 years in Petra as some have interpreted

[20:32] <VCI-Bob> The next one is one of my all-time favorites :)

[20:32] <Gran-VHL> 6Some where back as a child I was taught about Petra as the place that the Jews would be protected so have been surprised that some did not believe that it could happen there

[20:32] <Gran-VHL> 6did not know about Bosrah will lately

[20:33] <Gran-VHL> 6till lately

[20:33] <VCI-Bob> It speaks of the Messiah coming "from Edom, from Bozrah"

[20:33] <Gran-VHL> 6yes yes listening

[20:33] <VCI-Bob> This prophecy is in the form of an interview.....

[20:33] <Seeker-VHL757> 4I hadn't heard of Petra untill it came up on the board (out of touch I guess)

[20:34] <VCI-Bob> you can think of it like a reporter asking the Messiah questions, after the great battle He wages

[20:34] <VCI-Bob> Isaiah 63

[20:34] <VCI-Bob> (Isaiah 63:1 NIV) Who is this coming from Edom, from Bozrah, with his garments stained crimson? Who is this, robed in splendor, striding forward in the greatness of his strength? "It is I, speaking in righteousness, mighty to save."

[20:34] <VCI-Bob> The "report" asks who it is?

[20:34] <VCI-Bob> And Jesus replies

[20:34] <VCI-Bob> Not much question about who this is!

[20:35] <VCI-Bob> But then, the reporter notices something and asks about it....

[20:35] <VCI-Bob> (Isaiah 63:2 NIV) Why are your garments red, like those of one treading the winepress?

[20:35] <VCI-Bob> A winepress, is, of course, a very common symbol of God's wrath - treading the grapes of the winepress

[20:36] <Gran-VHL> 6yes Praise God

[20:36] <VCI-Bob> and when one treads grapes, his clothes get stained

[20:36] <VCI-Bob> Jesus answers:

[20:36] <VCI-Bob> (Isaiah 63:3 NIV) "I have trodden the winepress alone; from the nations no one was with me. I trampled them in my anger and trod them down in my wrath; their blood spattered my garments, and I stained all my clothing.

[20:36] <VCI-Bob> It wasn't grape stains, but blood

[20:36] <VCI-Bob> From the nations that He had just defeated in battle, that had been gathered against Jerusalem

[20:37] <VCI-Bob> All of the nations were against Israel, none helped

[20:37] <VCI-Bob> (Isaiah 63:4 NIV) For the day of vengeance was in my heart, and the year of my redemption has come.

[20:38] <VCI-Bob> Remember when Jesus read from elsewhere in Isaiah in the synagogue in Nazareth?

[20:38] <VCI-Bob> Reading about himself, but stopping before He got to the phrase....

[20:38] <Ken-VHL> yes.

[20:38] <Gran-VHL> 6yes

[20:38] <VCI-Bob> (Isaiah 61:1-2 NIV) The Spirit of the Sovereign LORD is on me, because the LORD has anointed me to preach good news to the poor. He has sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim freedom for the captives and release from darkness for the prisoners, {2} to proclaim the year of the Lord's favor and the day of vengeance of our God, to comfort all who mourn,

[20:38] <Seeker-VHL757> 4yes

[20:38] <VCI-Bob> He did not read "the day of vengeance"

[20:38] <Gran-VHL> 6Oh Jesus

[20:39] <VCI-Bob> But now, in Isaiah 63, that day has finally come

[20:39] <VCI-Bob> (Isaiah 63:4 NIV) For the day of vengeance was in my heart, and the year of my redemption has come.

[20:39] <Gran-VHL> 6also reference to Rev 14 and 19 the winepress of the wrath of God

[20:39] <VCI-Bob> He has been holding back His anger at the world for a long time, but finally, it is released in full force

[20:39] <VCI-Bob> exactly, Gran!

[20:39] <Gran-VHL> 6yes

[20:40] <Ken-VHL> this is near prophecy!

[20:40] <Gran-VHL> 6my bible is good it has a lot of references

[20:40] <VCI-Bob> (Isaiah 63:5-6 NIV) I looked, but there was no one to help, I was appalled that no one gave support; so my own arm worked salvation for me, and my own wrath sustained me. {6} I trampled the nations in my anger; in my wrath I made them drunk and poured their blood on the ground."

[20:40] <VCI-Bob> Why was Jesus appalled?

[20:40] <Gran-VHL> 6no one to help

[20:40] <VCI-Bob> Because.... Israel is attacked by all the nations of the world, and none helps her

[20:41] <Gran-VHL> 6to support her

[20:41] <VCI-Bob> right

[20:41] <Ken-VHL> yes, gran.

[20:41] <Gran-VHL> 6just like today

[20:41] <Gran-VHL> 6oh my Jesus have mercy on us

[20:41] <VCI-Bob> Yes, it's sobering

[20:41] <VCI-Bob> That day will come

[20:41] <Gran-VHL> 6yes very and so few even think about the fact

[20:42] <Gran-VHL> 6all we can think about is the hight price of gas

[20:42] <Gran-VHL> 6high

[20:42] <VCI-Bob> and the "salvation" described is different than we think of it - sometimes we need to redefine our terms a little

[20:42] <VCI-Bob> yes, Gran

[20:42] <Gran-VHL> 6in elctricity in CA

[20:42] <Ken-VHL> help me with that

[20:42] <VCI-Bob> when the Bible says "the salvation to be revealed in the last time" it's talking about more than just our personal salvation

[20:43] <VCI-Bob> as we see here

[20:43] <Gran-VHL> 6Ps 98"1

[20:43] <VCI-Bob> But back to our theme .... Who is this coming from Edom, from Bozrah....

[20:43] <Gran-VHL> 6Jesus

[20:44] <VCI-Bob> So, in some sense, the Lord comes from Bozrah to fight this battle, which fits the scenario

[20:44] <Gran-VHL> 6He goes there but will come out of there to fignt the battle

[20:44] <VCI-Bob> that He "breaks out" and leads the Jews, who by this time have em masse acknowledge Him as Lord and Messiah

[20:45] <VCI-Bob> yeah

[20:45] <Gran-VHL> 6the right hand and HIs holy arm haave gained Him the victory

[20:45] <Ken-VHL> Amen.

[20:45] <Gran-VHL> 6His right hand

[20:45] <VCI-Bob> Hallelujah, Gran!

[20:45] <Gran-VHL> 6yes amen Bob

[20:45] <Gran-VHL> 6praise God

[20:46] <Gran-VHL> 6for only He is holy

[20:46] <VCI-Bob> There is another Scripture that may allude to this as well

[20:46] <VCI-Bob> Are any of you familiar with Habakkuk?

[20:46] <Gran-VHL> 6all ears Bob

[20:46] <Gran-VHL> 6uh eyes that is

[20:46] <Ken-VHL> yes..

[20:46] <VCI-Bob> Habakkuk is a fascinating book, and I have a 3 part audio series on my website about it....

[20:46] <VCI-Bob> to summarize...

[20:47] <VCI-Bob> the prophet has a series of questions for the Lord about why injustice continues...

[20:47] <VCI-Bob> and the Lord answers him, but the ultimate answer is this:

[20:48] <VCI-Bob> (Habakkuk 2:2-3 NASB) Then the LORD answered me and said, "Record the vision And inscribe it on tablets, That the one who reads it may run. {3} "For the vision is yet for the appointed time; It hastens toward the goal, and it will not fail. Though it tarries, wait for it; For it will certainly come, it will not delay.

[20:48] <VCI-Bob> In other words, God give Habakkuk a vision of the coming of Jesus, which we find in chapter 3 - and He tells the prophet that this is the ultimate anser

[20:48] <VCI-Bob> answer

[20:49] <Seeker-VHL757> 4ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ

[20:49] <VCI-Bob> Chapter 3 is a magnificient, stunning peace of work

[20:49] <VCI-Bob> piece

[20:49] <VCI-Bob> sleepy, seeker? :)

[20:49] <Ken-VHL> ..... 3 ?

[20:49] <Seeker-VHL757> 4:-)

[20:50] <VCI-Bob> and chapter 3 starts like this, remember, it's about the Lord's return:

[20:50] <VCI-Bob> (Habakkuk 3:3 NIV) God came from Teman, the Holy One from Mount Paran. Selah His glory covered the heavens and his praise filled the earth.

[20:50] <VCI-Bob> Teman, and Mount Paran, are in the same vicinity as Bozrah, Petra

[20:50] <VCI-Bob> in Edom

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[20:50] <VCI-Bob> cool, huh

[20:51] <VCI-Bob> Welcome, Pie

[20:51] <Gran-VHL> 6pie shalom

[20:51] <pie-VHL> 13hi bob how are you tonite?

[20:51] <Ken-VHL> Hi, pie, shalom

[20:51] <pie-VHL> 13hello ken

[20:51] <VCI-Bob> Don't be fooled that Hab chap 3 is written in past tense.... it's future

[20:51] <Seeker-VHL757> 4Hello Pie

[20:51] <Ken-VHL> :-)

[20:51] <pie-VHL> 13what's up seeker?

[20:52] <Seeker-VHL757> 4Hap?

[20:52] <Gran-VHL> 6un Bob chap 3 of what?

[20:52] <VCI-Bob> remember, that the prophets saw the visions, and spoke of them as if they had already happened, hence the past tense

[20:52] <VCI-Bob> Habakkuk

[20:52] <Gran-VHL> 6Habbicut

[20:52] <Seeker-VHL757> 4Just cruzin Pie

[20:52] <Gran-VHL> 6mispelled

[20:52] <pie-VHL> 13cool seeker :-)

[20:53] <Seeker-VHL757> 4My eyes are playin tricks Bob

[20:54] <VCI-Bob> One of the interesting things about my speculative scenario that Israel gains land on the East Bank of Jordan is this... it's very possible, that very soon, that land in Edom will be actually part of the nation of Israel, rather than Jordan!

[20:54] <Gran-VHL> 6chapter 3 Bob?

[20:54] <VCI-Bob> yes

[20:54] <VCI-Bob> Chapters 1 and 2 are the question and answer session

[20:54] <Ken-VHL> I understand your reason to think that

[20:54] <VCI-Bob> and chapter three is the "vision" that God gives Habakkuk

[20:54] <VCI-Bob> as the ultimate answer

[20:55] <Gran-VHL> 6yes lots of questions for sure

[20:55] <Seeker-VHL757> 4Pie, how was your day?

[20:55] <VCI-Bob> we all have lots of em :)

[20:56] <VCI-Bob> But Habakkuk got to ask his directly, and got direct answers

[20:57] <Seeker-VHL757> 4I can't seem to keep connected or sumpin

[20:57] <pie-VHL> 13it was a busy and a bless day !!

[20:57] <VCI-Bob> Which are very relevant - all of the questions about injustice in the world, or why things go on as they are, are answered in the Second Coming of Jesus

[20:58] <Seeker-VHL757> 4good busy? and blessed How?

[20:58] <Ken-VHL> There seems to be a lot of down time between entries.Seeker.

[20:58] <Seeker-VHL757> 4Yes Ken that is true

[20:59] <VCI-Bob> My wife just brought me a plate so I was taking advantage of the lulls to wolf down dinner :)

[20:59] <Seeker-VHL757> 4lets see how long :53

[20:59] <pie-VHL> 13bless to be able to take care of the sick people , good because they are getting well

[20:59] <Ken-VHL> I can't type and read at the same time.

[20:59] <VCI-Bob> I can't type and eat at the same time :)

[21:00] <Ken-VHL> Bless You.Pie.

[21:00] <pie-VHL> 13:-)

[21:00] <pie-VHL> 13you to ken

[21:00] <Ken-VHL> :-)

[21:00] <VCI-Bob> There is one more prophecy....

[21:01] <Ken-VHL> What is for dinner, Bob?

[21:01] <VCI-Bob> that speaks of Bozrah and Edom in terms of end-time judgment

[21:01] <VCI-Bob> Hamburger Helper :)

[21:01] <Gran-VHL> 6yes yes

[21:01] <Seeker-VHL757> 4I bet it will be that you will be hungry tomorrow

[21:01] <pie-VHL> 13bob i love jewish people and i really want to learn more about them so what i am planning on doing this weekend is going to the sygn here in baton rougew

[21:01] <Gran-VHL> 6sure of that seeker

[21:01] <VCI-Bob> That's terrific, Pie!

[21:02] <VCI-Bob> It will be a great experience for you, I'm sure

[21:02] <Gran-VHL> 6pie that should be very interesting

[21:02] <Seeker-VHL757> 4Not sure gran

[21:02] <Ken-VHL> Great, pie!!!

[21:02] <Gran-VHL> 6oh well I always get hungrey daily seeker don';t you?

[21:02] <VCI-Bob> My experiences with that, Pie, is that they are very welcoming of people who want to learn about it

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[21:02] <Seeker-VHL757> 4hourly gran

[21:02] <VCI-Bob> Welcome, Kaydelia!

[21:03] <Gran-VHL> 6oh dear

[21:03] <Gran-VHL> 6Kaydelia shalom

[21:03] <Seeker-VHL757> 4( )

[21:03] <Ken-VHL> shalom, kaydelia

[21:03] <pie-VHL> 13one of the doctor that i work for was schock when he heard me speaking about the jewish people he ask me when i this in me about jewish i said it was bedor i gotten save and now it's much strongerhl

[21:03] <Seeker-VHL757> 4shalom

[21:03] <kaydelia-VHL> hi

[21:03] <pie-VHL> 13it is gran

[21:03] <VCI-Bob> The next prophecy about the coming of the Lord is not for the faint of heart....

[21:03] <pie-VHL> 13yes they are bob

[21:03] <VCI-Bob> Cool, Pie :)

[21:04] <Gran-VHL> 6writting these down Bob

[21:04] <VCI-Bob> Next prophecy we will look at is Isaiah 34

[21:04] <Ken-VHL> Right, bob

[21:04] <Gran-VHL> 6ok

[21:05] <VCI-Bob> Similar in some ways to the Isaiah 63 we looked at

[21:05] <VCI-Bob> but much more graphic

[21:05] <VCI-Bob> (Isaiah 34:1 NIV) Come near, you nations, and listen; pay attention, you peoples! Let the earth hear, and all that is in it, the world, and all that comes out of it!

[21:05] <Ken-VHL> whew!!!

[21:05] <Seeker-VHL757> 4got to go... see ya all next week

[21:05] <VCI-Bob> First, a call for the world to pay attention

[21:05] <VCI-Bob> See ya Seeker!

[21:06] <pie-VHL> 13see you later seeker GOD bless

[21:06] <Ken-VHL> Bye, seeker. Peace!

[21:06] <VCI-Bob> God wants the nations to hear what He has to say next

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[21:06] <VCI-Bob> (Isaiah 34:2-3 NIV) The LORD is angry with all nations; his wrath is upon all their armies. He will totally destroy them, he will give them over to slaughter. {3} Their slain will be thrown out, their dead bodies will send up a stench; the mountains will be soaked with their blood.

[21:06] <Gran-VHL> 6god bless seeker

[21:07] <Gran-VHL> 6Bob verse 4 is what is hard to understand

[21:07] <kaydelia-VHL> Hey Bob

[21:08] <VCI-Bob> OK, God is angry - why?

[21:08] <Gran-VHL> 6since later it talks about the return

[21:08] <VCI-Bob> Hello Kaydelia

[21:08] <kaydelia-VHL> hey

[21:08] <Gran-VHL> 6because of what the nations have done to isreal

[21:08] <VCI-Bob> Yes, and also, because of the evil that dominates the world

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[21:09] <VCI-Bob> But in this case you are right, it's the "armies" that will face His wrath

[21:09] <Gran-VHL> 6yes deneing God

[21:09] <Ken-VHL> it is a fallen world

[21:09] <VCI-Bob> As we see also in prophecies in Haggai and Psalm 110

[21:09] <Gran-VHL> 6been fallen a long time and falling faster

[21:09] <Rich-VHL> 7hello Gran kay Ken pie Well Bob your here too hello

[21:09] <kaydelia-VHL> what kind of church do you go to Bob?

[21:09] <Ken-VHL> hi, rich

[21:10] <pie-VHL> 13hi rich how are you tonite?

[21:10] <Gran-VHL> 6rich shalom

[21:10] <kaydelia-VHL> hey

[21:10] <VCI-Bob> Also reminiscent of how the book of Revelation describes the massive amounts of blood

[21:10] <Gran-VHL> 6yes

[21:10] <VCI-Bob> nondenominational

[21:10] <VCI-Bob> And in case we are wondering when this happens...

[21:10] <Rich-VHL> 7I have a bad cold pie

[21:10] <kaydelia-VHL> ok

[21:10] <VCI-Bob> v 4 gives us reference:

[21:10] <VCI-Bob> (Isaiah 34:4 NIV) All the stars of the heavens will be dissolved and the sky rolled up like a scroll; all the starry host will fall like withered leaves from the vine, like shriveled figs from the fig tree.

[21:11] <VCI-Bob> This is referred to in Revelation as well

[21:11] <VCI-Bob> so we know exactly when this is happening

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[21:11] <Rich-VHL> 7at the end of the age huh Bob

[21:11] <VCI-Bob> (Revelation 6:12-14 NIV) I watched as he opened the sixth seal. There was a great earthquake. The sun turned black like sackcloth made of goat hair, the whole moon turned blood red, {13} and the stars in the sky fell to earth, as late figs drop from a fig tree when shaken by a strong wind. {14} The sky receded like a scroll, rolling up, and every mountain and island was removed from its place.

[21:11] <Ken-VHL> The End

[21:11] <VCI-Bob> Right

[21:12] <VCI-Bob> Then...

[21:12] <VCI-Bob> (Revelation 6:15-17 NIV) Then the kings of the earth, the princes, the generals, the rich, the mighty, and every slave and every free man hid in caves and among the rocks of the mountains. {16} They called to the mountains and the rocks, "Fall on us and hide us from the face of him who sits on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb! {17} For the great day of their wrath has come, and who can stand?"

[21:12] <Ken-VHL> for some. Beginning for others

[21:12] <VCI-Bob> Which coincides with the wrath of the Lord on the nations and armies we say in Isaiah 34:2

[21:12] <Rich-VHL> 7the ones that don't know Jesus huh Ken

[21:13] <VCI-Bob> (Isaiah 34:5-6 NIV) My sword has drunk its fill in the heavens; see, it descends in judgment on Edom, the people I have totally destroyed. {6} The sword of the LORD is bathed in blood, it is covered with fat-- the blood of lambs and goats, fat from the kidneys of rams. For the LORD has a sacrifice in Bozrah and a great slaughter in Edom.

[21:13] <Ken-VHL> Well, The Cross is where time and Eternity meet!

[21:14] <VCI-Bob> There are a few ways to interpret "Edom" - as either symbolizing all who have rebelled against God....

[21:14] <VCI-Bob> or literally happening in that area of southern Jordan, or both

[21:14] <Gran-VHL> 6yes so it seems

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[21:15] <VCI-Bob> We see the imagery of a sacrifice, massive blood, gore

[21:15] <Gran-VHL> 6yuk

[21:15] <VCI-Bob> (Zephaniah 1:7-8 NIV) Be silent before the Sovereign LORD, for the day of the LORD is near. The LORD has prepared a sacrifice; he has consecrated those he has invited. {8} On the day of the Lord's sacrifice I will punish the princes and the king's sons and all those clad in foreign clothes.

[21:15] <Rich-VHL> 7isn't it in Isaiah where He says He trods the grapes all by Himself Bob at Bozrah

[21:15] <VCI-Bob> Yes, Rich, precisely! In fact, we looked at that before you arrived

[21:15] <Rich-VHL> 7OK

[21:17] <Ken-VHL> Foreign=Strange?

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[21:18] <VCI-Bob> Yes, Ken, all the armies of the world

[21:18] <VCI-Bob> all of the royal powers

[21:18] <pie-VHL> 13well i am back don't know what happen

[21:18] <Rich-VHL> 7then is this the time spoken of in Daniel chapter 12 where our people will be deliverd

[21:18] <VCI-Bob> (Haggai 2:21-22 NIV) "Tell Zerubbabel governor of Judah that I will shake the heavens and the earth. {22} I will overturn royal thrones and shatter the power of the foreign kingdoms. I will overthrow chariots and their drivers; horses and their riders will fall, each by the sword of his brother.

[21:18] <Ken-VHL> You do that often,pie?

[21:18] <VCI-Bob> Yes, apparently, Rich

[21:18] <Rich-VHL> 7good to see ya again pie

[21:19] <Gran-VHL> 6happens to all of us pie

[21:19] <VCI-Bob> "Foreign clothes" may refer to all the uniforms of the armies arrayed against Israel

[21:19] <pie-VHL> 13yes lataley only when i come on this site i think the emenie don't want me to learn but i am anyway

[21:20] <pie-VHL> 13you too rich

[21:20] <Gran-VHL> 6yes pie

[21:20] <Rich-VHL> 7when Michael stands up for war the great tribulation huh

[21:20] <Gran-VHL> 6Mon night was a mess trying to get here

[21:20] <pie-VHL> 13i bet it was

[21:20] <Gran-VHL> 6or to stay here

[21:21] <Rich-VHL> 7I didn't make it monday Gran

[21:21] <pie-VHL> 13why does this happen gran?

[21:21] <Gran-VHL> 6I know rich

[21:21] <Gran-VHL> 6honey if I knew that i would be rich and fix it

[21:21] <pie-VHL> 13i will start to come on monday

[21:21] <Gran-VHL> 6good

[21:21] <pie-VHL> 13ha-ha-ha-

[21:22] <Ken-VHL> Pie, take it as a good sign when the enemy knows you are worth fighting over. Prayers for your safety!

[21:22] <Gran-VHL> 6Stan got booted right away

[21:22] <Gran-VHL> 6yes amen Ken

[21:22] <VCI-Bob> I stepped away for a minute, back now

[21:22] <Gran-VHL> 6we prayed and stay awhile

[21:22] <Rich-VHL> 7Bob what you thinking about

[21:22] <pie-VHL> 13thanks ken he really going to get mad when i start coming on monday ;_)

[21:22] <Gran-VHL> 6for sure pie

[21:23] <Ken-VHL> Amen!

[21:23] <VCI-Bob> I'm thinking about my second helping of Hamburger Helper :)

[21:23] <Gran-VHL> 6Hummmmmmmmm haven't had any of that in years

[21:23] <pie-VHL> 13ha-ha- now that was funny bob

[21:23] <Rich-VHL> 7this is a special place for us I think pie the enemy will try to make it dificult

[21:23] <VCI-Bob> :)

[21:23] <Gran-VHL> 6yes Rich he does that

[21:24] <Gran-VHL> 6well Bob we are hungrey for prophesy so what else do you have for us?

[21:24] <Rich-VHL> 7did ya get it down yet

[21:24] <pie-VHL> 13you right try remember try is a failure and it fail him all the time

[21:24] <VCI-Bob> We talked about Edom some tonight, and Edom also represents in some places the Arab nations that have for years hated and attacked Israel

[21:24] <Rich-VHL> 7the food Bob

[21:24] <Ken-VHL> HE who is with me.....

[21:24] <VCI-Bob> Such as in Obadiah and places in Ezekiel

[21:25] <VCI-Bob> You may recall that from that Petra article

[21:25] <VCI-Bob> he mentions the connection between Edom and the Palestinians

[21:25] <Gran-VHL> 6Ob 15:21

[21:25] <Gran-VHL> 6yes

[21:25] <VCI-Bob> which is confirmed in Eze 36

[21:25] <Rich-VHL> 7thats a good article

[21:26] <VCI-Bob> And yes, Gran, in Obadiah

[21:27] <Gran-VHL> 6Bob and to think that all this was caused by sin

[21:27] <VCI-Bob> yes

[21:27] <Gran-VHL> 6going clear back to Jacob and Esah

[21:27] <Rich-VHL> 7thats right Gran breaking God's law

[21:27] <VCI-Bob> (Obadiah 1:8-10 NIV) "In that day," declares the LORD, "will I not destroy the wise men of Edom, men of understanding in the mountains of Esau? {9} Your warriors, O Teman, will be terrified, and everyone in Esau's mountains will be cut down in the slaughter. {10} Because of the violence against your brother Jacob, you will be covered with shame; you will be destroyed forever.

[21:27] <Gran-VHL> 6Rebecca wanted to helpGod

[21:28] <Gran-VHL> 6fulfill what HE told her about the two nations in her bellie

[21:28] <Rich-VHL> 7yup

[21:28] <pie-VHL> 13yes she did

[21:28] <VCI-Bob> Remember that the phrase "in that day" is very often eschatalogical (end-times) in nature

[21:28] <Gran-VHL> 6yes

[21:28] <Rich-VHL> 7sure do Bob

[21:29] <Ken-VHL> yes

[21:29] <Gran-VHL> 6we sure need to remember that if God wants our help HE will let us know

[21:29] <VCI-Bob> later in Obadiah.....

[21:29] <Gran-VHL> 6and not be lies

[21:29] <Rich-VHL> 7maybe we're helping Him right now Gran

[21:29] <VCI-Bob> (Obadiah 1:15-16 NIV) "The day of the LORD is near for all nations. As you have done, it will be done to you; your deeds will return upon your own head. {16} Just as you drank on my holy hill, so all the nations will drink continually; they will drink and drink and be as if they had never been.

[21:29] <Gran-VHL> 6Rich I sure dohope so

[21:30] <VCI-Bob> "my holy hill" is the temple mount

[21:30] <Rich-VHL> 7me too Gran

[21:30] <VCI-Bob> in modern terms.... we might say...

[21:30] <Ken-VHL> Right!

[21:30] <Gran-VHL> 6yes so it is BOb

[21:30] <VCI-Bob> "Because you partied on my Temple Mount, you're going to drink wine all right - the wine of my anger"

[21:30] <VCI-Bob> drink and drink and drink

[21:31] <Rich-VHL> 7forever

[21:31] <Ken-VHL> Strong words

[21:31] <VCI-Bob> very

[21:31] <Gran-VHL> 6I wonder how that term party would apply to the moslems

[21:32] <VCI-Bob> (Obadiah 1:17-18 NIV) But on Mount Zion will be deliverance; it will be holy, and the house of Jacob will possess its inheritance. {18} The house of Jacob will be a fire and the house of Joseph a flame; the house of Esau will be stubble, and they will set it on fire and consume it. There will be no survivors from the house of Esau." The LORD has spoken.

[21:32] <VCI-Bob> That's it, Gran

[21:32] <pie-VHL> 13huh i wonder to o gran

[21:32] <VCI-Bob> They are revelling that they have control of the Temple Mount

[21:32] <VCI-Bob> and God is extremely mad

[21:32] <Gran-VHL> 6it is strange how some go to forum and decry Zionism

[21:33] <Ken-VHL> The Moslems did not bother me when I was there. Even though I kneeled momentarily.

[21:33] <Rich-VHL> 7they shouldn't do that huh

[21:33] <pie-VHL> 13is that the gold top buliding in isreal?

[21:33] <Gran-VHL> 6oh OK Bob I see now

[21:33] <VCI-Bob> Yes, Pie

[21:33] <VCI-Bob> The "Dome of the Rock"

[21:33] <pie-VHL> 13thanks bob

[21:34] <VCI-Bob> I got some good pictures of it when I was there, but it won't be standing there much longer

[21:34] <Ken-VHL> AMEN

[21:34] <Gran-VHL> 6Yeah GO

[21:34] <Gran-VHL> 6GOD

[21:34] <Rich-VHL> 7their rock is just that a rock but our Rock Is Jesus

[21:34] <Gran-VHL> 6yes Rich

[21:34] <Ken-VHL> Right, Rich!

[21:34] <pie-VHL> 13you know i thought that buliding was for the jewish peoplehat

[21:34] <VCI-Bob> And the next two verses describe in detail gains in territory that Israel will get, perhaps in the next war

[21:35] <Gran-VHL> 6I am still looking for a localized earthquake Bob to get it down

[21:35] <Gran-VHL> 6or a misshot missle from Iraq

[21:35] <Rich-VHL> 7me too Gran

[21:35] <pie-VHL> 13muslims bulid the dome

[21:35] <VCI-Bob> Their is an actual rock inside there - want to see a picture? It's the rock of Mount Moriah, also the threshing floor David bought

[21:35] <Gran-VHL> 6yes pie

[21:35] <Rich-VHL> 7sure Bob

[21:35] <pie-VHL> 13yes i do

[21:35] <Rich-VHL> 7lets see it

[21:35] <Gran-VHL> 6yes Bob it sure is

[21:36] <VCI-Bob> http://www.trumpetsounds.com/moriahrock.jpg - this is a view insdie the Dome of the Rock

[21:36] <pie-VHL> 13thanks gran

[21:36] <Ken-VHL> I did not get inside

[21:36] <VCI-Bob> probably the very place where Abraham was ready to sacrifice Isaac

[21:36] <Gran-VHL> 6where is the rock Bob

[21:37] <Gran-VHL> 6is it flat?

[21:37] <Ken-VHL> Thanks Bob.

[21:37] <VCI-Bob> and where David built an altar to the Lord after purchasing it from the Jebusite Araunah

[21:37] <VCI-Bob> yes, flat

[21:37] <VCI-Bob> threshing floors needed a flat place

[21:37] <VCI-Bob> and window

[21:37] <VCI-Bob> windy

[21:37] <VCI-Bob> that is

[21:38] <Rich-VHL> 7and those islamic's think they own it huh

[21:38] <VCI-Bob> They do, Rich, but they'll soon find out

[21:38] <Rich-VHL> 7they will

[21:38] <Rich-VHL> 7the sooner the better

[21:38] <Gran-VHL> 6Bob aren;'t there three mosks there now and building another

[21:39] <pie-VHL> 13wow that's a hugh rock

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[21:39] <Gran-VHL> 6and is why they are tearing up the ground

[21:39] <VCI-Bob> On the Mount itself are the Dome of the Rock and the Al Asqa mosque

[21:39] <VCI-Bob> and there is also an underground mosque

[21:39] <Rich-VHL> 7hi Hope

[21:39] <Gran-VHL> 6there is?

[21:39] <Gran-VHL> 6Hope shalom

[21:39] <VCI-Bob> but.... it appears that their objective is to ultimately turn the whole Mount into one huge mosque

[21:39] <Elena-Hope-VHL> 3Hi Rich! ;) Hi Gran, Bob Everyone! ;)

[21:40] <VCI-Bob> Welcome, Elena!

[21:40] <Gran-VHL> 6god bless hope

[21:40] <VCI-Bob> :)

[21:40] <Elena-Hope-VHL> 3:)

[21:40] <pie-VHL> 13bob what is this about some rabbi go under the ground to study GOD words?

[21:40] <Rich-VHL> 7they won't be allowed to will they Bob

[21:40] <VCI-Bob> Not sure, Pie?

[21:40] <VCI-Bob> Don't think so, Rich

[21:41] <Rich-VHL> 7I hope not

[21:41] <VCI-Bob> Hard to say how long this situation will continue, but I think not long

[21:41] <Ken-VHL> Shalom, Elena-Hope

[21:41] <Gran-VHL> 6Bob how do youi see that domb coming down?

[21:41] <VCI-Bob> In many pieces, Gran :)

[21:41] <Elena-Hope-VHL> 3:) Ken, Shalom!

[21:41] <Gran-VHL> 6LOL

[21:41] <VCI-Bob> with a loud crash :)

[21:41] <Elena-Hope-VHL> 3LOL

[21:41] <pie-VHL> 13hi elena

[21:41] <Gran-VHL> 6LOL

[21:41] <Elena-Hope-VHL> 3Hi Pie! ;)

[21:42] <pie-VHL> 13like the walls of jericho

[21:42] <Rich-VHL> 7so all islams will hear it huh

[21:42] <VCI-Bob> Amen, Pie!

[21:42] <Gran-VHL> 6and lots of dust

[21:42] <pie-VHL> 13see i am learning

[21:42] <VCI-Bob> I've shared before what I think is a prophecy about that... should we go there again?

[21:42] <Ken-VHL> !!!!

[21:42] <Elena-Hope-VHL> 3YES!

[21:42] <Gran-VHL> 6well then is there room to march around any of them

[21:42] <pie-VHL> 13yes

[21:42] <VCI-Bob> ok :)

[21:42] <Ken-VHL> YES

[21:42] <Rich-VHL> 7yes

[21:42] <VCI-Bob> Zechariah 4

[21:42] <Gran-VHL> 6yes

[21:42] <VCI-Bob> starts with a VERY familiar verse:

[21:43] <VCI-Bob> and the context is about the rebuilding the temple in those days, and prophetically in the future

[21:43] <VCI-Bob> (Zechariah 4:6 NIV) So he said to me, "This is the word of the LORD to Zerubbabel: 'Not by might nor by power, but by my Spirit,' says the LORD Almighty.

[21:43] <VCI-Bob> Bet you didn't know this was about the destruction of the Dome of the Rock, did ya? :)

[21:43] <Elena-Hope-VHL> 3WAIT! I'm lost here

[21:43] <Rich-VHL> 7nope

[21:44] <VCI-Bob> Yes, Elena?

[21:44] <Ken-VHL> WOW!!!!!

[21:44] <pie-VHL> 13wow

[21:44] <Elena-Hope-VHL> 3what's about the dome?

[21:44] <VCI-Bob> The next verse clarifies it, and will give you shivers:

[21:44] <Gran-VHL> 6oh WOW Bob

[21:44] <VCI-Bob> (Zechariah 4:7 NIV) "What are you, O mighty mountain? Before Zerubbabel you will become level ground. Then he will bring out the capstone to shouts of 'God bless it! God bless it!'"

[21:44] <Elena-Hope-VHL> 3go on

[21:44] <Elena-Hope-VHL> 3OH my GOODNESS! I never saw that!

[21:44] <VCI-Bob> "What are you" -- in other words - this obstacle to rebuilding, this "mighty mountain" is like NOTHING in God's sight

[21:45] <Ken-VHL> Bob!!!!

[21:45] <VCI-Bob> and will be LEVELED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[21:45] <VCI-Bob> And THEN!!!

[21:45] <Gran-VHL> 6Woopie wahooy

[21:45] <Elena-Hope-VHL> 3wait who is Zerubbabel?

[21:45] <VCI-Bob> they will bring out the cornerstone!!!!

[21:45] <Gran-VHL> 6:->:)

[21:45] <Ken-VHL> I admire your insight.

[21:45] <VCI-Bob> With Great Joy!!!!!!!!!!!!

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[21:45] <Rich-VHL> 7can't wait for that

[21:45] <VCI-Bob> Zerubbabel is a very very important character

[21:46] <VCI-Bob> Welcome, Princess

[21:46] <Ken-VHL> Shalom, Princess!

[21:46] <Elena-Hope-VHL> 3Hi Princess

[21:46] <VCI-Bob> He is unique in several ways

[21:46] <Rich-VHL> 7hello princess

[21:46] <princess-VHL> 6hi

[21:46] <Elena-Hope-VHL> 3go on

[21:46] <pie-VHL> 13hi princess how are you tonite

[21:46] <Gran-VHL> 6princess shalom

[21:46] <Rich-VHL> 7how so Bob

[21:46] <princess-VHL> 6great and you/

[21:46] <pie-VHL> 13bles

[21:46] <pie-VHL> 13oops bless

[21:46] <VCI-Bob> Historically, he was one of the leaders at the time of the first return from Babylon, before Ezra and Nehemiah

[21:46] <princess-VHL> 6where is every one from?

[21:46] <VCI-Bob> and....

[21:47] <Rich-VHL> 7michigan

[21:47] <VCI-Bob> He was a direct descendant of David, Solomon, and the line of kings of Judah

[21:47] <Elena-Hope-VHL> 3Miami FL

[21:47] <princess-VHL> 6im from minnesota

[21:47] <VCI-Bob> his title was "governor of Judah"

[21:47] <Ken-VHL> currently in Missouri

[21:47] <Elena-Hope-VHL> 3was he good or bad?

[21:47] <princess-VHL> 6florida must be nice right now

[21:47] <VCI-Bob> designated as the local leader for the returned exiles

[21:47] <VCI-Bob> very very good, Elena

[21:48] <VCI-Bob> there's much more about him............. :)

[21:48] <Gran-VHL> 6oh thats interesting Bob

[21:48] <Elena-Hope-VHL> 3PLEASE continue!

[21:48] <pie-VHL> 13tell us more please

[21:48] <princess-VHL> 6whats the topic?

[21:48] <Rich-VHL> 7will he oversee another building of the temple Bob

[21:48] <Elena-Hope-VHL> 3the blowing of the Dome

[21:48] <VCI-Bob> He was the subject of major Messianic prophecies in both the book of Zechariah and Haggai

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[21:48] <VCI-Bob> both of which deal with the rebuilding of the Temple in those days, and prophetically in the future....

[21:48] <Elena-Hope-VHL> 3Welcome Gloria ;)

[21:48] <princess-VHL> 6blowing of the dome?

[21:49] <VCI-Bob> There's more......

[21:49] <pie-VHL> 13hi gloria how are you

[21:49] <Gloria-VHL> Hi folks

[21:49] <VCI-Bob> Hi Gloria!

[21:49] <Ken-VHL> Shalom, Gloria!

[21:49] <princess-VHL> 6hi gloria

[21:49] <Rich-VHL> 7hello Gloria

[21:49] <Gran-VHL> 6gloria shalom

[21:49] <VCI-Bob> Zerubabbel was.... a direct ancestor of the Messiah Jesus

[21:49] <Gran-VHL> 6yes Bob

[21:49] <Elena-Hope-VHL> 3how the Dome is going to come down and the Temple will be rebuilt....in prophecy

[21:49] <Ken-VHL> Oh! Yes!

[21:49] <VCI-Bob> and oddly enough..... you might want to study this sometime.....

[21:49] <Rich-VHL> 7the same as David

[21:49] <princess-VHL> 6thanks

[21:49] <VCI-Bob> in BOTH genealogies!

[21:50] <VCI-Bob> And.....

[21:50] <Gran-VHL> 6yes ys

[21:50] <VCI-Bob> Zerubbabel was also a symbol of the coming Messiah, and the recepient of some very important Messianic prophecies

[21:50] <Gran-VHL> 6OH

[21:50] <princess-VHL> 6ok im alittle slow but isn't zerubabbel satan?

[21:50] <VCI-Bob> No, that's Belzebbub :)

[21:51] <princess-VHL> 6Ok

[21:51] <VCI-Bob> lots of Zs and Bs, but different name :)

[21:51] <Elena-Hope-VHL> 3Princess, I had NO clue about him either!

[21:51] <princess-VHL> 6thanks

[21:51] <VCI-Bob> He's a very important fellow :)

[21:51] <princess-VHL> 6why?

[21:51] <VCI-Bob> OK, now we'll go to Haggai for an example

[21:51] <princess-VHL> 6i got in late on this

[21:51] <Ken-VHL> Z not B

[21:52] <princess-VHL> 6let me get my bible

[21:52] <Elena-Hope-VHL> 3not really princess, we just started on this

[21:52] <VCI-Bob> Haggai was a prophet sent to the returned exiles, the first batch....

[21:52] <princess-VHL> 6great

[21:52] <princess-VHL> 6ok

[21:52] <VCI-Bob> with the mission of encouraging them to build the Temple

[21:53] <princess-VHL> 6go on

[21:53] <VCI-Bob> and.... he was sent primarily to Zerubbabel, who was the leader, and to Joshua, the high priest

[21:53] <VCI-Bob> who, by the way, was ALSO symbolic of the coming Messiah in the book of Zechariah!!

[21:53] <VCI-Bob> so, anyway...

[21:53] <Rich-VHL> 7oh I have to get going friends see ya soon God Bless you all

[21:53] <VCI-Bob> See ya Rich :)

[21:53] <Gran-VHL> 6god bless Rich

[21:53] <princess-VHL> 6by rich

[21:54] Rich-VHL [~Rich-VHL@jproxy15.talkcity.com] has quit IRC (Rich-VHL has left the room)

[21:54] <Gran-VHL> 6soonest

[21:54] <Ken-VHL> God bless, Rich

[21:54] <Gloria-VHL> God Bless Rich

[21:54] <pie-VHL> 13bye rich

[21:54] <princess-VHL> 6bob do you have verses so i can follow this a little closer?

[21:54] <VCI-Bob> Along with the message that Haggai gave Zerubbabel about rebuilding in that day....

[21:54] <VCI-Bob> Yes.... just a sec :)

[21:55] <VCI-Bob> He also gives them a sneak peak of the future for encouragement

[21:55] <VCI-Bob> (Haggai 2:3-4 NIV) 'Who of you is left who saw this house in its former glory? How does it look to you now? Does it not seem to you like nothing? {4} But now be strong, O Zerubbabel,' declares the LORD. 'Be strong, O Joshua son of Jehozadak, the high priest. Be strong, all you people of the land,' declares the LORD, 'and work. For I am with you,' declares the LORD Almighty.

[21:55] <VCI-Bob> As they rebuild, some of the older people were discouraged.....

[21:56] <VCI-Bob> because the had seen Solomon's grand temple before it was destroyed some decades earlier

[21:56] <VCI-Bob> and what they were building now seemed poor in comparison

[21:56] <VCI-Bob> but He tells them:

[21:56] <VCI-Bob> That the glory of the future Temple will be much greater

[21:57] <VCI-Bob> And gives an end-time prophecy:

[21:57] <VCI-Bob> (Haggai 2:5-7 NIV) 'This is what I covenanted with you when you came out of Egypt. And my Spirit remains among you. Do not fear.' {6} "This is what the LORD Almighty says: 'In a little while I will once more shake the heavens and the earth, the sea and the dry land. {7} I will shake all nations, and the desired of all nations will come, and I will fill this house with glory,' says the LORD Almighty.

[21:57] Gloria-VHL [~Gloria-VHL@jproxy13.talkcity.com] has quit IRC (Gloria-VHL has left the room)

[21:57] <VCI-Bob> (Haggai 2:8-9 NIV) 'The silver is mine and the gold is mine,' declares the LORD Almighty. {9} 'The glory of this present house will be greater than the glory of the former house,' says the LORD Almighty. 'And in this place I will grant peace,' declares the LORD Almighty."

[21:58] <VCI-Bob> There's more yet about Zerubbabel, but any questions?

[21:58] <princess-VHL> 6go on..

[21:58] <Elena-Hope-VHL> 3YES, is this talking about Jesus Christ, or a New Temple?

[21:58] <VCI-Bob> Both, Elena

[21:58] <Elena-Hope-VHL> 3OK

[21:59] <Ken-VHL> Good question, Good answer!

[21:59] <Elena-Hope-VHL> 3LOL

[21:59] <VCI-Bob> Later on, Haggai is sent to Zerubbabel with another prophecy...

[21:59] <VCI-Bob> to give more details about what will happen

[21:59] <VCI-Bob> and this one is very very cool :)

[22:00] <VCI-Bob> (Haggai 2:20-22 NIV) The word of the LORD came to Haggai a second time on the twenty-fourth day of the month: {21} "Tell Zerubbabel governor of Judah that I will shake the heavens and the earth. {22} I will overturn royal thrones and shatter the power of the foreign kingdoms. I will overthrow chariots and their drivers; horses and their riders will fall, each by the sword of his brother.

[22:00] <VCI-Bob> We referred to this verse earlier when talking about the war the Messiah will wage on the armies of the nations

[22:00] <VCI-Bob> when He returns

[22:01] <VCI-Bob> Zerubbabel is privileged to get a glimpse of this....

[22:01] <VCI-Bob> but even better for him is this:

[22:01] <Elena-Hope-VHL> 3each by the sword of his brother! they will kill each other!

[22:01] <VCI-Bob> yeah, Elena

[22:01] <VCI-Bob> This is the last verse of Haggai, and a very important Messianic prophecy:

[22:01] <VCI-Bob> (Haggai 2:23 NIV) "'On that day,' declares the LORD Almighty, 'I will take you, my servant Zerubbabel son of Shealtiel,' declares the LORD, 'and I will make you like my signet ring, for I have chosen you,' declares the LORD Almighty."

[22:02] <VCI-Bob> This is speaking of Jesus, Messiah, descendant of Zerubbabel

[22:02] <VCI-Bob> who is God's signet ring

[22:02] <Elena-Hope-VHL> 3HOW cool!

[22:02] <VCI-Bob> With all of the authority and power of God - that's what a signet ring signifies - the full authority of the King

[22:03] pie-VHL [~pie-VHL@jproxy15.talkcity.com] has quit IRC (pie-VHL)

[22:03] <VCI-Bob> and only the Son has the full authority of the Father!

[22:03] <princess-VHL> 6Thanks Bob!

[22:03] <Ken-VHL> Bob, I have to go. Will this be available on the log? I hate to go but I am still working 10 hour days.

[22:03] <VCI-Bob> So you see, Zerubbabel is a very important character

[22:03] <VCI-Bob> Yes, it will, Ken

[22:03] <Elena-Hope-VHL> 3Goodnight Ken, God Bless

[22:04] <VCI-Bob> Shalom to you :)

[22:04] <Ken-VHL> Thanks. Goodnight all. Love You ALL.

[22:04] <princess-VHL> 6Goodnight Ken

[22:04] <VCI-Bob> Love you too!

[22:04] <Gran-VHL> 6Ken god bless sese soones

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[22:04] <Elena-Hope-VHL> 3I never even knew about him!!!!! WOW! God's Word NEVER stops amazing me!

[22:05] <VCI-Bob> Amen, Elena!

[22:05] <Gran-VHL> 6ane

[22:06] <Elena-Hope-VHL> 3It's funny, now that I've learned something new, makes me want to go and read the whole entire story!

[22:06] <VCI-Bob> Yeah - read Haggai and Zechariah together

[22:06] <Elena-Hope-VHL> 3Zechariah 4 right

[22:06] <VCI-Bob> and remember the other main character of those days.....

[22:06] <VCI-Bob> Joshua the high priest.....

[22:07] <VCI-Bob> is also the recepient of Messianic prophecies

[22:07] <Elena-Hope-VHL> 3Thanks Bob!

[22:07] <Gran-VHL> 6Yes haggai spoke to both of them

[22:08] <Elena-Hope-VHL> 3I got here soooo late and I have to leave sooooo early! :( I love you guys! God bless you all!

[22:08] <VCI-Bob> (Zechariah 3:8-9 NIV) "'Listen, O high priest Joshua and your associates seated before you, who are men symbolic of things to come: I am going to bring my servant, the Branch. {9} See, the stone I have set in front of Joshua! There are seven eyes on that one stone, and I will engrave an inscription on it,' says the LORD Almighty, 'and I will remove the sin of this land in a single day.

[22:08] <VCI-Bob> Night Elena!

[22:08] <princess-VHL> 6God Bless elena

[22:08] <Gran-VHL> 6Hope god bless come back

[22:09] <Elena-Hope-VHL> 3;) I wrote down the verses! THANKS BOB!

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[22:10] <VCI-Bob> I should probably go soon....

[22:10] <princess-VHL> 6This is my first time here, is there a place i could post a poem i wrote?

[22:10] <VCI-Bob> One last verse first

[22:10] <VCI-Bob> Sure, Princess, on the forums

[22:10] <princess-VHL> 6wheres that?

[22:11] <VCI-Bob> Go tot he VHL main page, and look for the "forums" link

[22:11] <VCI-Bob> One more verse about Joshua

[22:11] <princess-VHL> 6Thanks- whats your verse?

[22:11] <VCI-Bob> a little mentioned Messianic prophecy...

[22:11] <VCI-Bob> You know that "the Branch" is a Messianic title, right?

[22:11] <Gran-VHL> 6yes

[22:11] <VCI-Bob> (Zechariah 6:11-12 NIV) Take the silver and gold and make a crown, and set it on the head of the high priest, Joshua son of Jehozadak. {12} Tell him this is what the LORD Almighty says: 'Here is the man whose name is the Branch, and he will branch out from his place and build the temple of the LORD.

[22:11] <princess-VHL> 6no

[22:12] <princess-VHL> 6but now i do

[22:12] <VCI-Bob> This verse foretells the NAME of the Messiah - Joshua, or Yeshua (Jesus)

[22:12] <VCI-Bob> Here is the man whose name is the branch

[22:12] <VCI-Bob> Joshua, Yeshua, is "the Branch" - the Messiah

[22:13] <princess-VHL> 6your pretty smart bob

[22:13] <VCI-Bob> I read the Bible a lot, and God blesses me - it's not me at all :)

[22:13] <Gran-VHL> 6that took a lot of study for him princess

[22:14] <Gran-VHL> 6concentration which I don't have much of any more

[22:14] <princess-VHL> 6whats your fav books guys?

[22:14] <VCI-Bob> "Knowledge of the Holy" and "The Pursuit of God" both by AW Tozer

[22:14] <Gran-VHL> 6hard to say princess anything that tells us about Jesus I guess

[22:14] <VCI-Bob> I'll bid you both Good Night now :)

[22:15] <VCI-Bob> Shalom, Gran, and Princess! The Lord bless you!

[22:15] <princess-VHL> 6i was talking bible books lol

[22:15] <VCI-Bob> oh, Isaiah, John

[22:15] <Gran-VHL> 6me too Bob and princess need to got to bed shalom and god bless both of you

[22:15] <princess-VHL> 6and you!

[22:15] <VCI-Bob> Shalom! :)

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[22:15] <princess-VHL> 6bye guys God Bless

*** Log file closed: 4/26/01 10:15:40 PM