*** Log file opened: 2/22/01 7:52:31 PM

[19:52] <Bezalel-VHL> Hi Bob.....

[19:52] <VCI-Bob> Hey buddy! :)

[19:52] <VCI-Bob> How are you doing?

[19:53] <Bezalel-VHL> 2I'm fine, and you?

[19:53] <VCI-Bob> Very well tonight, thanks :)

[19:53] <VCI-Bob> How's life been treating you? :)

[19:53] <Bezalel-VHL> 2What is our lesson for tonight?

[19:53] <Bezalel-VHL> 2Life is getting better, the closer I get to the Lord.

[19:53] <VCI-Bob> I plan to examine the book of Zephaniah

[19:54] <VCI-Bob> Wonderful!

[19:54] <VCI-Bob> A book not very well known

[19:54] <VCI-Bob> Probably the average Christian knows nothing at all about it

[19:54] Ken-VHL [~Ken-VHL@jproxy1.talkcity.com] has joined #VHL-Prophecy

[19:54] <VCI-Bob> Welcome, Ken, to Bible Prophecy Chat!

[19:55] <Bezalel-VHL> 2Hi Ken

[19:55] <Ken-VHL> Hi, Bob,Bez,Shalom

[19:55] <VCI-Bob> We won't get into our main topic until more come in - anything on you guys mind tonight?

[19:56] <Ken-VHL> Sorry I missed last week. Looks like a great session from the log.

[19:56] <Bezalel-VHL> 2Bob, did you get the e-mail from Delta for the link to the site for The Jew?

[19:56] <VCI-Bob> Yes, it was a good session

[19:56] <VCI-Bob> Not sure, Bez?

[19:56] <Bezalel-VHL> 2As, always.

[19:57] <Bezalel-VHL> 2I went to the link, and they had some poetry and essays concerning Christian attitudes towards the Jews. It was a personal site, so an individual apparently had put his thoughts there. Nice site.

[19:58] <VCI-Bob> Sound interesting - it was a Jewish site, or Christian?

[19:58] <Bezalel-VHL> 2Christian...

[19:59] <Ken-VHL> Bob, I read the excerpt from Trumpet Sounds." Let U Wipe Out Isreal". You sure have done your homework!

[19:59] <Bezalel-VHL> 2I printed it out, and it was only 11 pages.

[19:59] <VCI-Bob> Thanks Ken - I try to keep up to date with what's happening in Israel

[19:59] <Ken-VHL> The whole world!

[20:00] <VCI-Bob> If you have the URL, you can post it, Bez

[20:00] Gran-VHL [~Gran-VHL@jproxy2.talkcity.com] has joined #VHL-Prophecy

[20:00] <VCI-Bob> Welcome Gran! How's our favorite Gran!

[20:00] <Gran-VHL> 6:-*:)

[20:00] <Ken-VHL> Hi, Gran!

[20:00] <Gran-VHL> 6shalom

[20:00] <VCI-Bob> My own Gran isn't around anymore, so your my Gran now :)

[20:00] <Bezalel-VHL> 2http://home.earthlink.net/~bigapplebill/Index.html

[20:00] <VCI-Bob> Thanks, Bez

[20:00] <Gran-VHL> 6just not feeling so hot but am here for a while anyway

[20:01] <Bezalel-VHL> 2Hi Gran.

[20:01] <VCI-Bob> Well, we hope our chat will perk you up!

[20:01] <Gran-VHL> 6I tryed to get into that one Bez but couldn';t get in

[20:01] <Ken-VHL> Sorry Gran. Prayers?

[20:01] <Gran-VHL> 6always need those dear

[20:01] <Bezalel-VHL> 2Delta send some "extra" letters in the e-mail. You can click on the one I posted above.

[20:01] <Gran-VHL> 6just very tired for some reason sure don't work hard HE he

[20:01] <Ken-VHL> Done!

[20:01] <Bezalel-VHL> 2Sent

[20:02] <Gran-VHL> 6bob would love to beyour Gran and all else

[20:02] <Gran-VHL> 6also

[20:02] <VCI-Bob> I'm listening to Bach's Adagios in the background - very peaceful music :)

[20:02] <VCI-Bob> Wonderful, Gran! I'm honored! :)

[20:02] <Gran-VHL> 6I have my local Christian radio station on love it

[20:03] <VCI-Bob> A good station there, Gran?

[20:03] <Gran-VHL> 6just kind of feeling my age again

[20:03] <VCI-Bob> We have a good one here in Tampa also

[20:03] <Gran-VHL> 6my oldest child is 51

[20:03] <Bezalel-VHL> 2Ah, your oldest is younger than I, Gran.

[20:03] <Ken-VHL> Are you from Tampa or just in Tampa?

[20:03] <Gran-VHL> 6oh well son

[20:04] <Gran-VHL> 6thats like

[20:04] <VCI-Bob> I live in Tampa, from upstate NY originally

[20:04] <Gran-VHL> 6my youngest is 36 this year

[20:04] <Bezalel-VHL> 2I'm my mother's youngest...

[20:04] <VCI-Bob> be right back

[20:04] <Gran-VHL> 6so am I

[20:04] <Ken-VHL> My best friend is from Tonawanda!

[20:05] <Gran-VHL> 6where is that Ken?

[20:05] <Gran-VHL> 6Africa

[20:05] <Ken-VHL> Upstate NY

[20:05] <Bezalel-VHL> 2I served with a guy from there, in Vietnam.

[20:05] <Gran-VHL> 6oh well never was good at geography LOL

[20:05] <VCI-Bob> What I'm doing now... is getting in on a conference call from Chosen People Ministries, hopefully

[20:05] <Gran-VHL> 6I raised all mine in So CA

[20:06] <Gran-VHL> 6married a guy from SC so wound up there in 77

[20:06] <Bezalel-VHL> 2I just remember the name, because it was before I came to Western Washington with some really unusual names.

[20:06] <VCI-Bob> I got a postcard from them, about updates of their ministry in Israel, and the call is right now, if I can get connected

[20:06] <Ken-VHL> Been there too!

[20:06] <Gran-VHL> 6they must be Indian names Bob and Ken right

[20:07] <Ken-VHL> Most are.

[20:07] <Gran-VHL> 6Chosen People Bob I have heard of theri good works

[20:07] <Gran-VHL> 6ministires

[20:07] <Bezalel-VHL> 2Yes, we have Puyallup, Seattle, etc.

[20:07] <VCI-Bob> Yes, a very good ministry... been around for years

[20:07] <Gran-VHL> 6yes but them I can pronounce

[20:07] <VCI-Bob> My mom supported them years ago when I was a kid - they were call American Board of Mission to the Jews then

[20:08] <Gran-VHL> 6oh yeah Bob didn't know that

[20:08] <VCI-Bob> still trying to get through to the call

[20:08] <Ken-VHL> Bob, I enjoyed thier Messiah in the Passover video.

[20:08] <Gran-VHL> 6I could use some prayers against this headache I get them often

[20:08] <Bezalel-VHL> 2Can you talk and type at the same time, Bob?

[20:08] <Gran-VHL> 6not migrane

[20:08] <VCI-Bob> Not sure, Bez :) I'll be listening anyway

[20:08] <Gran-VHL> 6neck problems cause them

[20:09] <Bezalel-VHL> 2:-)

[20:09] <Gran-VHL> 6Bob did anyone ever get a good complete map done for us

[20:09] <Bezalel-VHL> 2Been doing cartwheels again, Gran?

[20:09] <VCI-Bob> I'm getting in....

[20:09] <VCI-Bob> Complete map of what, Gran

[20:09] <Gran-VHL> 6so much of what goes on over there I have no idea where it is

[20:09] <Gran-VHL> 6Isreal Jerusalem

[20:09] <Gran-VHL> 6etc

[20:10] <VCI-Bob> Conference about to begin.... I'm listening to the Teleconference

[20:10] <Gran-VHL> 6Bez I wish I could do cartwheels

[20:10] <Gran-VHL> 6I do good to just bend over and fall on my head

[20:10] <Gran-VHL> 6no balance anymore

[20:10] <Bezalel-VHL> 2:-)

[20:10] <Gran-VHL> 6oops not fall on my head

[20:11] <Gran-VHL> 6:)

[20:11] <VCI-Bob> Dr. Albert and Mitch Glaser (President) are leading the call

[20:11] <Gran-VHL> 6oh sounds interesting Bob

[20:11] <VCI-Bob> They have recently relocated their headquarters to uptown Manhattan, by the way

[20:11] <Gran-VHL> 6brb

[20:12] <Gran-VHL> 6my fire is going out

[20:12] <VCI-Bob> 51st St I believe

[20:12] <Ken-VHL> You can hear it, Gran?

[20:12] <Bezalel-VHL> 2Isn't that around where Clinton first tried to get office space?

[20:12] <VCI-Bob> Glaser is speaking of their efforts of evangelism in Israel

[20:13] <Gran-VHL> 6No Ken

[20:13] <VCI-Bob> "Sometime within the next 20 years, there will be more people in Israel than in the US" - Glaser

[20:13] <Gran-VHL> 6wish I could

[20:13] <VCI-Bob> more Jewish people, that is

[20:14] <VCI-Bob> "in the end of days, there will be a pouring out of the Holy Spirit on the people of Israel"

[20:14] <Gran-VHL> 6I just wonder how many Jews will make aliyah

[20:14] <Gran-VHL> 6from the US

[20:15] <VCI-Bob> "There is another attempt by a member of Knesset that would be evangelism illegal in Israel"

[20:15] <Gran-VHL> 6Bob, Bez did you get what Dex said the other night when the pronunciation of Aliya was given?

[20:15] <Gran-VHL> 6it is all eee yah

[20:15] <VCI-Bob> "New law has gone through one "reading" and passed 23-9 - has to go through two more leadings to become law"

[20:16] <VCI-Bob> Yes, Gran :)

[20:16] <Bezalel-VHL> 2Yup, Gran.

[20:16] <Gran-VHL> 6and Dex said as in Are all eee yah saved?

[20:16] <Gran-VHL> 6I thought that was very good and wrote it down

[20:16] <Bezalel-VHL> 2That will catch them up with the US

[20:16] <Gran-VHL> 6I read that Bob sounds bad

[20:17] <VCI-Bob> "As outrageous as this bill seems to be passed, and as unlikely as it would seem, there is a chance this law would be passed"

[20:17] <VCI-Bob> "Pray that this bill would not succeed"

[20:17] Z-VHL [~Z-VHL@jproxy3.talkcity.com] has joined #VHL-Prophecy

[20:17] <Gran-VHL> 6sounds like the one a couple of years ago that was defeated

[20:17] <Bezalel-VHL> 2Hi Z

[20:17] <VCI-Bob> Welcome Z

[20:17] <Gran-VHL> 6yes Bob

[20:17] <Gran-VHL> 6Z shalom

[20:17] <VCI-Bob> I'm reporting live from a conference call from Chosen People Ministries

[20:18] <Ken-VHL> Hi, Z.

[20:18] <VCI-Bob> "Russian Jewish Messianic congregations in Tel-Aviv and the West Bank"

[20:19] <Ken-VHL> Would that make us outlaws, Bob.

[20:19] <VCI-Bob> If it passed, and you went to Israel and talked to someone about Jesus, yes, perhaps

[20:20] <Ken-VHL> HE said it would happen!

[20:20] <Gran-VHL> 6is it more specific Bob than the last one?

[20:20] <VCI-Bob> Not sure, Gran

[20:20] <Gran-VHL> 6gosh sounds like muslim laws

[20:20] <VCI-Bob> He's speaking of their desire to have ministry in Jerusalem

[20:21] <Gran-VHL> 6brb

[20:21] <VCI-Bob> Want to establish an office in Jerusalem

[20:21] Z-VHL [~Z-VHL@jproxy3.talkcity.com] has quit IRC (Z-VHL has left the room)

[20:21] <Bezalel-VHL> 2Oughta put them in touch with Stan....

[20:22] <VCI-Bob> Hope this is ok, instead of our regular topics? We'll soon get to the Bible, after the call is over...

[20:23] <Ken-VHL> :-)

[20:23] <Gran-VHL> 6sure Bob

[20:23] <Gran-VHL> 6sounds good

[20:23] <Gran-VHL> 6stuff we need to hear

[20:23] <Bezalel-VHL> 2You always open new horizons for me Bob.

[20:23] <VCI-Bob> "The Talmud says that nine-tenths of the world's beauty was assigned to Jerusalem" :)

[20:24] <Bezalel-VHL> 2Or at least point them out for me.

[20:24] <VCI-Bob> They feel that they need to focus more on Jerusalem

[20:24] <Gran-VHL> 6oh say I had not heard that Bob

[20:24] <Gran-VHL> 6thats good

[20:25] <VCI-Bob> "A lot of difficulties, a lot of challenges, but I believe that our call is stronger than to listen to those who do not want us there"

[20:25] <Gran-VHL> 6we all need to point our prayers to her

[20:25] <Gran-VHL> 6if we can't do anything else

[20:25] <Ken-VHL> Talmud was written before Yosemite was discovered!

[20:25] <Gran-VHL> 6I am glad they have heard the call

[20:26] <Gran-VHL> 6yes Ken

[20:26] <VCI-Bob> (Hey, where is everybody tonight? :) )

[20:26] <Gran-VHL> 6we are here Bob

[20:26] <Gran-VHL> 6shall we spread out some

[20:26] <VCI-Bob> LOL

[20:26] <Gran-VHL> 6;-):)

[20:26] <Bezalel-VHL> 2I'm here, Gran's here, and Ken's here, what more do you need?

[20:26] <VCI-Bob> Nothing - you're right :)

[20:26] <Gran-VHL> 6thats the spriti Bez

[20:27] <Gran-VHL> 6oh hey remember Delta tomorrow guys

[20:27] <Gran-VHL> 6she is having those tupes put in her ears yikks

[20:27] <Ken-VHL> The Transfiguration was in the presence of tthree I believe.

[20:27] <Bezalel-VHL> 2The Spirit is building in me lately. Sure is peaceful.

[20:27] <VCI-Bob> We are going to take a look at Zephaniah shortly

[20:27] <Bezalel-VHL> 2GOod one, Ken.

[20:27] <Gran-VHL> 6yes Ken

[20:27] <VCI-Bob> Nothing like that peace, huh Bez

[20:28] <Bezalel-VHL> 2Amen.

[20:28] <VCI-Bob> Excellent point, Ken

[20:28] <Gran-VHL> 6where in it Bob

[20:28] <VCI-Bob> Zephaniah - somewhat obscure and unknown, but important

[20:28] <Ken-VHL> Not original with me.

[20:28] <VCI-Bob> The whole thing, Gran :)

[20:28] <Gran-VHL> 6OK

[20:28] <Gran-VHL> 6got it

[20:29] <Bezalel-VHL> 2The LORD within her is righteous; he does no wrong. Morning by morning he dispenses his justice, and every new day he does not fail, yet the unrighteous know no shame. (NIV Zeph 3:5)

[20:29] <Gran-VHL> 6brb fire just does not want to burn right

[20:29] <Gran-VHL> 6chilie in here

[20:29] <VCI-Bob> A beautiful verse, Bez

[20:29] <Bezalel-VHL> 2I thought it appropriate with the discussion of the law to outlaw evangelism.

[20:31] <VCI-Bob> They are asking for questions - do we have any questions for them?

[20:31] <Bezalel-VHL> 2Do they have any presence in Israel today?

[20:32] <VCI-Bob> First question was regarding the cost for an office in Jerusalem

[20:32] <Ken-VHL> Question authority?

[20:32] <VCI-Bob> yes, they do, Bez, but not in Jerusalem currently

[20:32] <VCI-Bob> in Tel Aviv, and in Ariel, I believe

[20:32] <Bezalel-VHL> 2Thanks.

[20:33] <Gran-VHL> 6How is there presence being taken so far Bob

[20:33] <Gran-VHL> 6by the people there

[20:33] <Gran-VHL> 6any hostility

[20:33] <VCI-Bob> Gran, as I understand it, it is fruitful, but some opposition, yes

[20:33] <Bezalel-VHL> 2DO they have a web site?

[20:34] <Gran-VHL> 6i wonder how soon the law would go into effect?

[20:34] <Gran-VHL> 6depending on how it is worded how it will effect their ministry

[20:34] <VCI-Bob> I talked to Stan about that law, and it's his opinion that it will not succeed, but we need to pray

[20:35] <VCI-Bob> If passed, Gran, it would seriously effect outreach ministries

[20:35] <Gran-VHL> 6i wonder how it would effect those that take care of Jews they bring in from Russia

[20:35] <Gran-VHL> 6the ministry at the center is taken to those coming in with nothing

[20:36] <VCI-Bob> Next question "what can we do to influence the upcoming negative legislation"?

[20:36] <Gran-VHL> 6they feed them and give them clothes and the gospel

[20:36] <Gran-VHL> 6they have good results

[20:36] <VCI-Bob> They have a petition on their website

[20:36] <Gran-VHL> 6oh good we need to have that Bob

[20:36] <VCI-Bob> encouraging people to sign the petition - 4000 have signed it

[20:36] <Gran-VHL> 6website that is

[20:37] <Ken-VHL> Would our petition be honored?

[20:37] <Ken-VHL> Sent from Missouri, USA

[20:37] <VCI-Bob> http://www.chosen-people.com/

[20:37] <Gran-VHL> 6we need to bombard Heaven with petitions against it Bob

[20:37] <VCI-Bob> Yes, Gran

[20:38] <Ken-VHL> Amen, Gran!

[20:38] <Gran-VHL> 6very good Bob thanks

[20:39] <Gran-VHL> 6Bob perhaps you can give this information and the website out on your website since there are so few of us here tonight

[20:39] <VCI-Bob> Yes, I will add a link on my "links" page

[20:39] <Gran-VHL> 6thats great

[20:40] <Gran-VHL> 6I will tell Delta also as when I mentioned this to her tues she had not heard about it the law that is

[20:42] <Gran-VHL> 6Bob did you say that they are a Messianic group?

[20:42] <VCI-Bob> Yes :)

[20:42] <Gran-VHL> 6humm Jews do not like them much

[20:42] <VCI-Bob> Sorry for the lull - just listening

[20:42] <Gran-VHL> 6try to say they are not Jews anymore

[20:42] <Gran-VHL> 6need to be kicked out

[20:43] <VCI-Bob> "we can have a vital part in what God is doing in history"!!!

[20:43] <VCI-Bob> I'll say amen to that!

[20:43] <Gran-VHL> 6listin up Bob

[20:43] <Gran-VHL> 6yes Bob

[20:43] <Gran-VHL> 6Pop corn anyone?

[20:43] <VCI-Bob> yumm

[20:43] <Gran-VHL> 6eating while Bob is listening

[20:44] <Gran-VHL> 6fills the empty spaces

[20:44] <Ken-VHL> Gets stuck in my teeth, Gran. Thanks anyway!

[20:44] <Bezalel-VHL> 2My petition entry has been submitted.

[20:44] <Gran-VHL> 6just plain but good yes yumm

[20:44] <VCI-Bob> Great, Bez!

[20:44] <Gran-VHL> 6oh well yes but just floss <G>

[20:45] <Ken-VHL> :->

[20:45] <VCI-Bob> Call almost over

[20:45] <Gran-VHL> 6humm I will go back and do that while you listen Bob

[20:45] <VCI-Bob> all rightee :)

[20:46] <VCI-Bob> They are praying now for the people ministering in Tel-Aviv

[20:46] <VCI-Bob> Call is over

[20:47] <VCI-Bob> OK - you have my full attention once again

[20:47] <Bezalel-VHL> 2Okay

[20:47] <Ken-VHL> :-O

[20:47] <Bezalel-VHL> 2I wonder if folks are having trouble getting in?

[20:48] <VCI-Bob> I wonder that also, Bez - unusually quiet tonight

[20:48] <Bezalel-VHL> 2Yes

[20:48] <VCI-Bob> OK - here we go - Lord, please bless our study of your word - open our hearts and minds

[20:49] <Bezalel-VHL> 2Bless us with resolve and purpose to stand for You and Your People.

[20:49] <VCI-Bob> All right folks - someone tell me something about Zephaniah :)

[20:49] <Bezalel-VHL> 2Good Stuff!

[20:49] <VCI-Bob> The word of the LORD that came to Zephaniah son of Cushi, the son of Gedaliah, the son of Amariah, the son of Hezekiah, during the reign of Josiah son of Amon king of Judah: (Zephaniah 1:1 NIV)

[20:50] <VCI-Bob> This makes him a contemporary of the young Jeremiah

[20:50] <Gran-VHL> 6Bob I got into the site but found no where to sign a petition they just talked about it

[20:50] <Gran-VHL> 6yes Bob

[20:50] <Bezalel-VHL> 2Click on the alert

[20:50] <Gran-VHL> 6OK

[20:50] <Bezalel-VHL> 2In Blue

[20:51] <Gran-VHL> 6thanx

[20:51] <VCI-Bob> Josiah, if you remember, was one of the last kings of Judah, before Babylonia invaded, and he was the last "good" king

[20:51] <Ken-VHL> Starting at age 12. If I remember.

[20:51] <VCI-Bob> Josiah went on a "righeous rampage" - tearing down idols, perhaps in response to the preaching of Jeremiah and Zephaniah

[20:52] <Gran-VHL> 6Zephaniah means Jehovah Hides

[20:52] <VCI-Bob> The king stood by the pillar and renewed the covenant in the presence of the LORD--to follow the LORD and keep his commands, regulations and decrees with all his heart and all his soul, thus confirming the words of the covenant written in this book. Then all the people pledged themselves to the covenant. (2 Kings 23:3 NIV)

[20:52] <VCI-Bob> Thanks, Gran!

[20:52] <VCI-Bob> He did away with the pagan priests appointed by the kings of Judah to burn incense on the high places of the towns of Judah and on those around Jerusalem--those who burned incense to Baal, to the sun and moon, to the constellations and to all the starry hosts. (2 Kings 23:5 NIV)

[20:52] <VCI-Bob> He took the Asherah pole from the temple of the LORD to the Kidron Valley outside Jerusalem and burned it there. He ground it to powder and scattered the dust over the graves of the common people. (2 Kings 23:6 NIV)

[20:52] <VCI-Bob> (Josiah did these things)

[20:52] <Gran-VHL> 6He was a flaming evangelist

[20:52] <VCI-Bob> He also tore down the quarters of the male shrine prostitutes, which were in the temple of the LORD and where women did weaving for Asherah. (2 Kings 23:7 NIV)

[20:53] <Gran-VHL> 6yes he did Bob as prophesied much earlier

[20:53] <VCI-Bob> He desecrated Topheth, which was in the Valley of Ben Hinnom, so no one could use it to sacrifice his son or daughter in the fire to Molech. (2 Kings 23:10 NIV)

[20:53] <VCI-Bob> He removed from the entrance to the temple of the LORD the horses that the kings of Judah had dedicated to the sun. They were in the court near the room of an official named Nathan-Melech. Josiah then burned the chariots dedicated to the sun. (2 Kings 23:11 NIV)

[20:53] <VCI-Bob> He pulled down the altars the kings of Judah had erected on the roof near the upper room of Ahaz, and the altars Manasseh had built in the two courts of the temple of the LORD. He removed them from there, smashed them to pieces and threw the rubble into the Kidron Valley. (2 Kings 23:12 NIV)

[20:54] <Gran-VHL> 6Joshiah was protected from death as his grandmother was killing all the children

[20:54] <VCI-Bob> And on and on... the list of things Josiah did to tear down and banish the false gods

[20:54] <VCI-Bob> Zephaniah was probably preaching before all this happened

[20:54] <Gran-VHL> 6yes

[20:54] <VCI-Bob> So... that's the context

[20:55] <VCI-Bob> Zephaniah had royal blood - he was not a "commoner"

[20:55] <VCI-Bob> The word of the LORD that came to Zephaniah son of Cushi, the son of Gedaliah, the son of Amariah, the son of Hezekiah, during the reign of Josiah son of Amon king of Judah: (Zephaniah 1:1 NIV)

[20:55] <VCI-Bob> And apparently was familiar with the practices in the royal household

[20:55] <VCI-Bob> That makes him a distant cousin of Josiah

[20:56] <VCI-Bob> ok - after that intro....

[20:56] <Gran-VHL> 6so it seems

[20:56] <VCI-Bob> Zephaniah jumps right in - no gentle prelude here!

[20:56] <VCI-Bob> "I will sweep away everything from the face of the earth," declares the LORD. (Zephaniah 1:2 NIV)

[20:56] <VCI-Bob> "I will sweep away both men and animals; I will sweep away the birds of the air and the fish of the sea. The wicked will have only heaps of rubble when I cut off man from the face of the earth," declares the LORD. (Zephaniah 1:3 NIV)

[20:57] <VCI-Bob> Yowsa!

[20:57] <Bezalel-VHL> 2Tough Love.

[20:57] <Gran-VHL> 6hard lessons

[20:58] <Gran-VHL> 6they had to learn

[20:58] <VCI-Bob> In Zephaniah, we will see an example of near/far prophecies - speaking both of the destruction about to happen from Babylon, and also the future "Day of the Lord"

[20:58] <VCI-Bob> intertwined

[20:58] <Gran-VHL> 6sometimes they learned for a few generaltions they back to the bad stuff

[20:58] <Bezalel-VHL> 2This sounds pretty much end-times prophesy, bob.

[20:59] <VCI-Bob> Yes, Bez, v 2&3 speak of God's wrath on the earth, as developed in more detail in Revelation

[20:59] <Bezalel-VHL> 2That's what I was thinking.

[20:59] <VCI-Bob> I'm going to quote some from an excellent commentary I found by Ray Stedman:

[21:00] <VCI-Bob> He says:

[21:00] <Gran-VHL> 6hummm

[21:00] redisback-VHL [~redisback-VHL@jproxy3.talkcity.com] has joined #VHL-Prophecy

[21:00] <VCI-Bob> "Zephaniah means "hidden of the Lord" and the prophet is speaking as if he were a representative of the remnant of faith -- those relatively few people who will remain true to God and be faithful to his word through the time of trouble that is to come upon the earth. They will be hidden, as it were, by God himself among the nations of the earth and God will watch over them to keep them in faith during this time. And it is about these people that the book of Zephaniah is written, and

[21:00] <VCI-Bob> especially of that coming day, the day of the Lord, which is vividly described by the prophet. "

[21:00] <redisback-VHL> hi there all what have i missed

[21:00] <VCI-Bob> Red's back! Yippee!

[21:00] <Gran-VHL> 6red shalom

[21:00] <VCI-Bob> Red, you just missed all of the people being wiped from the face of the earth :)

[21:00] <Ken-VHL> Hi, Red.

[21:00] <redisback-VHL> small group tonight

[21:01] <Bezalel-VHL> 2Hi Red, weellllllcommmme!!!!!!!

[21:01] <VCI-Bob> We are in Zephaniah chapter one

[21:01] <Ken-VHL> Creme de la creme

[21:01] <redisback-VHL> is that a joke bob, forgive me i'm slow

[21:01] <Gran-VHL> 6we are eating popcorn and drinking buttermilk yummmm

[21:01] <VCI-Bob> no joke :)

[21:01] <VCI-Bob> "I will sweep away everything from the face of the earth," declares the LORD. (Zephaniah 1:2 NIV)

[21:01] <VCI-Bob> "I will sweep away both men and animals; I will sweep away the birds of the air and the fish of the sea. The wicked will have only heaps of rubble when I cut off man from the face of the earth," declares the LORD. (Zephaniah 1:3 NIV)

[21:01] <redisback-VHL> oh ok thanks

[21:02] <VCI-Bob> More comments from Stedman:

[21:02] <VCI-Bob> "But the day of the Lord is the day of the manifestation of God's hand directly in human affairs. Notice the personal pronoun all through that passage: "I will sweep away everything." I will sweep away man and beast." "I will cut off mankind." God is working through events in history, working through nations and armies and calamities of various sorts. His hand is hidden in the glove of history, but all the writers of Scripture agree that a day is coming when God will intervene

[21:02] <VCI-Bob> directly in the affairs of men again. "

[21:02] <redisback-VHL> my sister is catholic and she told me something interesting tonight

[21:02] <VCI-Bob> Yes, Red?

[21:02] <Gran-VHL> 6yes

[21:03] <Gran-VHL> 6??

[21:03] <VCI-Bob> By the way, Stan says HI to all - I talked to him today

[21:03] <redisback-VHL> she said that the pope just made 44 bishop into cardinals. She found that odd since he had just done a round of about 20 or so

[21:03] <redisback-VHL> then she said

[21:04] <Ken-VHL> " Glove of History" nice turn of phrase.

[21:04] <Gran-VHL> 6don't thier robes have more gold on them

[21:04] <VCI-Bob> yes, Ken

[21:04] <redisback-VHL> that the pope was quoted as saying that now the gospel is know to all the world cuz the new cardinals represent all countries

[21:05] <Gran-VHL> 6oh really how iinteresting

[21:05] <redisback-VHL> he said that this fullfills the gospel

[21:05] <Gran-VHL> 6news to me

[21:05] <VCI-Bob> Interesting, no, it doesn't, because they preach a false gospel, but interesting nonetheless

[21:05] <Gran-VHL> 6myabe he really is trying

[21:06] <redisback-VHL> I think she found this on Spiritdaily.com I have not been able to go there yet to check it out for myself though

[21:06] <Ken-VHL> I wondered who would say that first.

[21:06] <Gran-VHL> 6the pope does not seem to be a freind of Israel

[21:06] <VCI-Bob> No, Gran, he is not

[21:06] <Gran-VHL> 6but seems to really like Arafat

[21:06] <VCI-Bob> Yes

[21:06] <Gran-VHL> 6calls hiim a friend sheesh

[21:07] <Ken-VHL> :-(

[21:07] <Gran-VHL> 6yeah Ken me too

[21:07] <Gran-VHL> 6:-p:)

[21:07] <VCI-Bob> ok - more of Zephaniah?

[21:08] <Gran-VHL> 6yup

[21:08] <redisback-VHL> please

[21:08] <VCI-Bob> "I will stretch out my hand against Judah and against all who live in Jerusalem. I will cut off from this place every remnant of Baal, the names of the pagan and the idolatrous priests-- (Zephaniah 1:4 NIV)

[21:08] <VCI-Bob> those who bow down on the roofs to worship the starry host, those who bow down and swear by the LORD and who also swear by Molech, (Zephaniah 1:5 NIV)

[21:08] <VCI-Bob> those who turn back from following the LORD and neither seek the LORD nor inquire of him. (Zephaniah 1:6 NIV)

[21:08] <Ken-VHL> :-)K

[21:08] <VCI-Bob> This is a "near" prophecy - that God was going to punish Judah for their betrayal of him, with the Babylonian invasion

[21:09] <VCI-Bob> Notice the "indictment" against them...

[21:09] <VCI-Bob> they worship the stars

[21:09] <Ken-VHL> Thanks, Bob. I need those near and future notes.

[21:09] <VCI-Bob> they give lip service to Yahweh but also worship Molech

[21:10] <VCI-Bob> Let's take a look at Molech for a minute

[21:10] <VCI-Bob> An idol, which is a demon

[21:10] <Gran-VHL> 6didn't they burn their children to molech?

[21:10] <VCI-Bob> Yes, Gran

[21:10] <Gran-VHL> 6like the heathens

[21:10] <VCI-Bob> he is called often Molech the detestable god of the Ammonites.

[21:11] <Gran-VHL> 6nasty idol

[21:11] <VCI-Bob> In the Torah:

[21:11] <VCI-Bob> "'Do not give any of your children to be sacrificed to Molech, for you must not profane the name of your God. I am the LORD. (Leviticus 18:21 NIV)

[21:11] <VCI-Bob> "Say to the Israelites: 'Any Israelite or any alien living in Israel who gives any of his children to Molech must be put to death. The people of the community are to stone him. (Leviticus 20:2 NIV)

[21:11] <VCI-Bob> I will set my face against that man and I will cut him off from his people; for by giving his children to Molech, he has defiled my sanctuary and profaned my holy name. (Leviticus 20:3 NIV)

[21:11] <Gran-VHL> 6I wonder if the Miayas are related to them

[21:11] <Gran-VHL> 6that did that

[21:11] <VCI-Bob> This is the root of child sacrifice, and the same demonic spirit at work today in the practice of abortion

[21:12] <Gran-VHL> 6yes

[21:12] <Ken-VHL> I believe that!

[21:12] <VCI-Bob> When Solomon strayed from the Lord:

[21:12] <VCI-Bob> As Solomon grew old, his wives turned his heart after other gods, and his heart was not fully devoted to the LORD his God, as the heart of David his father had been. (1 Kings 11:4 NIV)

[21:12] <VCI-Bob> He followed Ashtoreth the goddess of the Sidonians, and Molech the detestable god of the Ammonites. (1 Kings 11:5 NIV)

[21:12] <Bezalel-VHL> 2And the worship of the stars continues with astrology.

[21:12] <Gran-VHL> 6he had heathern wives

[21:12] <VCI-Bob> So Solomon did evil in the eyes of the LORD; he did not follow the LORD completely, as David his father had done. (1 Kings 11:6 NIV)

[21:12] <VCI-Bob> On a hill east of Jerusalem, Solomon built a high place for Chemosh the detestable god of Moab, and for Molech the detestable god of the Ammonites. (1 Kings 11:7 NIV)

[21:12] <Gran-VHL> 6 1000 of them i think

[21:12] <Gran-VHL> 6and he got wisdom??

[21:13] <VCI-Bob> But Josiah did away with the practice....

[21:13] <VCI-Bob> He desecrated Topheth, which was in the Valley of Ben Hinnom, so no one could use it to sacrifice his son or daughter in the fire to Molech. (2 Kings 23:10 NIV)

[21:13] <Gran-VHL> 6yes

[21:13] <Ken-VHL> I am surprised he got a word in. (sorry)

[21:13] <VCI-Bob> I saw the Valley of Ben Hinnom when I was in Jerusalem

[21:14] <VCI-Bob> here's an interesting fact for you:

[21:14] <Gran-VHL> 6yes

[21:14] <Gran-VHL> 6??

[21:14] <VCI-Bob> That valley was a perpetually burning garbage dump

[21:14] <Ken-VHL> Yes

[21:14] <Gran-VHL> 6oh yes

[21:14] <VCI-Bob> transliterated, Ben Hinnon is gehenna in Greek

[21:14] <VCI-Bob> the word Jesus used for "hell"

[21:15] <Ken-VHL> Is that near Haifa?

[21:15] <VCI-Bob> Topheth is mentioned in Isaiah as well, in a mention of helll

[21:15] <VCI-Bob> no, a valley south and west of Jerusalem

[21:16] <Ken-VHL> Oh Yeah. I remember!

[21:16] <VCI-Bob> Isaiah's prophecy about hell:

[21:16] <VCI-Bob> Topheth has long been prepared; it has been made ready for the king. Its fire pit has been made deep and wide, with an abundance of fire and wood; the breath of the LORD, like a stream of burning sulfur, sets it ablaze. (Isaiah 30:33 NIV)

[21:16] <VCI-Bob> "the king" is the antichrist and the devil

[21:16] <Ken-VHL> Below the Mount of Olives.

[21:16] <VCI-Bob> That's the Kidron, but you're close, Ken :)

[21:16] Rich-VHL [~Rich-VHL@jproxy6.talkcity.com] has joined #VHL-Prophecy

[21:17] <VCI-Bob> Welcome, Rich!

[21:17] <Gran-VHL> 6Bob about that map??

[21:17] <Ken-VHL> Sorry. I'll just have to go back>

[21:17] <VCI-Bob> I gotta get Gran a map :)

[21:17] <Gran-VHL> 6Rich shalom

[21:17] <VCI-Bob> Of Jerusalem, or Israel, Gran?

[21:17] <Rich-VHL> 7Hi Bob Bez Gran Ken Red

[21:17] <Gran-VHL> 6yeah please

[21:17] <Ken-VHL> Rich!:-)

[21:17] <Gran-VHL> 6that waay I can pretend to be there Bob

[21:17] <Rich-VHL> 7good to see ya all

[21:18] <Gran-VHL> 6both dear

[21:18] <Bezalel-VHL> 2Hi Rich.

[21:18] <Gran-VHL> 6so I can keep it all in context

[21:18] <VCI-Bob> :)

[21:18] <Gran-VHL> 6when a place is mentioned

[21:18] <VCI-Bob> I made a note, Gran

[21:18] <redisback-VHL> hi rich hows things

[21:18] <Gran-VHL> 6here or on the news

[21:18] <Rich-VHL> 7real good red thanks

[21:18] <Gran-VHL> 6you know there were several of us last year asking Stan about a large map

[21:19] <VCI-Bob> I have a map on my office wall....

[21:19] <Gran-VHL> 6we can't all get over there <G>

[21:19] <VCI-Bob> the Holy Land - then and now - two maps

[21:19] <Gran-VHL> 6that sounds good

[21:19] <Gran-VHL> 6how can you get that into here??

[21:19] <VCI-Bob> showing the current political boundaries, and the ancient boundaries and cities

[21:19] <Gran-VHL> 6or your site??

[21:20] <Gran-VHL> 6that sounds great

[21:20] <VCI-Bob> hmmmm - maybe I can, Gran

[21:20] <Gran-VHL> 6no morea confusion

[21:20] <VCI-Bob> OK, back to Zephaniah :)

[21:20] <Gran-VHL> 6yeah

[21:20] <Rich-VHL> 7lets go

[21:20] <VCI-Bob> I promise, after tonight, you will know more about Zephaniah than anyone at your church :)

[21:21] <Ken-VHL> please

[21:21] <Rich-VHL> 7OK

[21:21] <VCI-Bob> The next verse is back to a "far" viewpoint, and is very very important

[21:21] <VCI-Bob> Be silent before the Sovereign LORD, for the day of the LORD is near. The LORD has prepared a sacrifice; he has consecrated those he has invited. (Zephaniah 1:7 NIV)

[21:21] <Bezalel-VHL> 2Am I invited?

[21:22] <VCI-Bob> Yes, you are!

[21:22] <Bezalel-VHL> 2I'll be there!

[21:22] <VCI-Bob> But... this is not the kind of party you think it is...

[21:22] <Rich-VHL> 7very good verse huh

[21:22] <Bezalel-VHL> 2I hope not.

[21:22] <VCI-Bob> Be silent before the Sovereign LORD, for the day of the LORD is near. The LORD has prepared a sacrifice; he has consecrated those he has invited. (Zephaniah 1:7 NIV)

[21:22] <VCI-Bob> On the day of the Lord's sacrifice I will punish the princes and the king's sons and all those clad in foreign clothes. (Zephaniah 1:8 NIV)

[21:22] <VCI-Bob> This is the "great supper of God"

[21:22] <VCI-Bob> that's what this "sacrifice" is

[21:23] <VCI-Bob> I will quote from other places that describe it

[21:23] <Rich-VHL> 7OK

[21:23] <VCI-Bob> And I saw an angel standing in the sun, who cried in a loud voice to all the birds flying in midair, "Come, gather together for the great supper of God, (Revelation 19:17 NIV)

[21:23] <VCI-Bob> so that you may eat the flesh of kings, generals, and mighty men, of horses and their riders, and the flesh of all people, free and slave, small and great." (Revelation 19:18 NIV)

[21:23] <Gran-VHL> 6oh Gosh

[21:23] <VCI-Bob> It's going to be a big party all right - a big, gory, bloody party

[21:24] <VCI-Bob> Sorry, this one is not G rated

[21:24] <Rich-VHL> 7thats what those deserve though huh Bob

[21:24] <Rich-VHL> 7for fighting our Lord

[21:24] <Bezalel-VHL> 2But didn't he say I have consecrated the ones I have inivited.

[21:24] <VCI-Bob> Ezekiel also describes it

[21:24] <Gran-VHL> 6they reapted what they sowed

[21:24] <VCI-Bob> Right Bez - we are invited, as the witnesses to the sacrifice

[21:25] <Gran-VHL> 6set apart

[21:25] <VCI-Bob> On the mountains of Israel you will fall, you and all your troops and the nations with you. I will give you as food to all kinds of carrion birds and to the wild animals. (Ezekiel 39:4 NIV)

[21:25] <Bezalel-VHL> 2Good, I didn't want to be on the wrong side of this one.

[21:25] <Rich-VHL> 7chosen from the beginning

[21:25] <Gran-VHL> 6yes

[21:25] <Ken-VHL> Amen.

[21:25] <VCI-Bob> Hang on - this is rather graphic:

[21:25] <VCI-Bob> "Son of man, this is what the Sovereign LORD says: Call out to every kind of bird and all the wild animals: 'Assemble and come together from all around to the sacrifice I am preparing for you, the great sacrifice on the mountains of Israel. There you will eat flesh and drink blood. (Ezekiel 39:17 NIV)

[21:25] <VCI-Bob> You will eat the flesh of mighty men and drink the blood of the princes of the earth as if they were rams and lambs, goats and bulls--all of them fattened animals from Bashan. (Ezekiel 39:18 NIV)

[21:26] <Rich-VHL> 7OK

[21:26] <VCI-Bob> At the sacrifice I am preparing for you, you will eat fat till you are glutted and drink blood till you are drunk. (Ezekiel 39:19 NIV)

[21:26] <VCI-Bob> At my table you will eat your fill of horses and riders, mighty men and soldiers of every kind,' declares the Sovereign LORD. (Ezekiel 39:20 NIV)

[21:26] <VCI-Bob> This is the "sacrifice" of which God is speaking in Zephaniah

[21:26] <VCI-Bob> Isaiah also describes it

[21:26] <Rich-VHL> 7it has to be so

[21:26] <Gran-VHL> 6modern times Bob?

[21:27] <VCI-Bob> Come near, you nations, and listen; pay attention, you peoples! Let the earth hear, and all that is in it, the world, and all that comes out of it! (Isaiah 34:1 NIV)

[21:27] <VCI-Bob> The LORD is angry with all nations; his wrath is upon all their armies. He will totally destroy them, he will give them over to slaughter. (Isaiah 34:2 NIV)

[21:27] <VCI-Bob> Their slain will be thrown out, their dead bodies will send up a stench; the mountains will be soaked with their blood. (Isaiah 34:3 NIV)

[21:27] <VCI-Bob> Gran, the next verse tells you when:

[21:27] <VCI-Bob> All the stars of the heavens will be dissolved and the sky rolled up like a scroll; all the starry host will fall like withered leaves from the vine, like shriveled figs from the fig tree. (Isaiah 34:4 NIV)

[21:28] <Gran-VHL> 6OK

[21:28] <VCI-Bob> My sword has drunk its fill in the heavens; see, it descends in judgment on Edom, the people I have totally destroyed. (Isaiah 34:5 NIV)

[21:28] <VCI-Bob> The sword of the LORD is bathed in blood, it is covered with fat-- the blood of lambs and goats, fat from the kidneys of rams. For the LORD has a sacrifice in Bozrah and a great slaughter in Edom. (Isaiah 34:6 NIV)

[21:29] <VCI-Bob> Here, as in the book of Obadiah, "Edom" symbolizes the rebellious nations, specifically, their hated of Israel

[21:29] <VCI-Bob> And the wild oxen will fall with them, the bull calves and the great bulls. Their land will be drenched with blood, and the dust will be soaked with fat. (Isaiah 34:7 NIV)

[21:29] <VCI-Bob> For the LORD has a day of vengeance, a year of retribution, to uphold Zion's cause. (Isaiah 34:8 NIV)

[21:29] <VCI-Bob> Everyone with me? Questions?

[21:30] <Rich-VHL> 7sounds like God is very very angry huh

[21:30] <VCI-Bob> Both Isaiah, and Zephaniah, speak of the "Day of the Lord"

[21:30] <Ken-VHL> That Is THE DAY of THE LORD!!!

[21:30] <VCI-Bob> very very very

[21:30] <Gran-VHL> 6tiime line bob

[21:30] <VCI-Bob> when it says He "has a day" - it means He is storing up His pent up anger until that day

[21:30] <Rich-VHL> 7He is a God of war too

[21:30] <Gran-VHL> 6some what

[21:30] <Gran-VHL> 6at least

[21:30] <Bezalel-VHL> 2Wonder what all our "humanist" friends will think during this time.

[21:30] <VCI-Bob> and then, it bursts forth

[21:31] <VCI-Bob> I can tell you what they will think, Bez....

[21:31] <Rich-VHL> 7could we compare this to Noahs flood kinda Bob

[21:31] <VCI-Bob> Then the kings of the earth, the princes, the generals, the rich, the mighty, and every slave and every free man hid in caves and among the rocks of the mountains. (Revelation 6:15 NIV)

[21:31] <VCI-Bob> They called to the mountains and the rocks, "Fall on us and hide us from the face of him who sits on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb! (Revelation 6:16 NIV)

[21:31] <VCI-Bob> For the great day of their wrath has come, and who can stand?" (Revelation 6:17 NIV)

[21:31] <Bezalel-VHL> 2When they're hiding in the caves?

[21:31] <VCI-Bob> Righto!

[21:31] <VCI-Bob> Yes, Rich, exactly - if you look at the first verses of Zephaniah, the parallel is unmistakable...

[21:32] <Gran-VHL> 6after the AC and arrmagedden?

[21:32] <VCI-Bob> "I will sweep away everything from the face of the earth," declares the LORD. (Zephaniah 1:2 NIV)

[21:32] <VCI-Bob> "I will sweep away both men and animals; I will sweep away the birds of the air and the fish of the sea. The wicked will have only heaps of rubble when I cut off man from the face of the earth," declares the LORD. (Zephaniah 1:3 NIV)

[21:32] <VCI-Bob> Compared to what He said to Noah:

[21:32] <VCI-Bob> So the LORD said, "I will wipe mankind, whom I have created, from the face of the earth--men and animals, and creatures that move along the ground, and birds of the air--for I am grieved that I have made them." (Genesis 6:7 NIV)

[21:32] <Rich-VHL> 7going to clean it up a little huh Bob

[21:32] <VCI-Bob> yes, Gran?

[21:32] <VCI-Bob> uh huh

[21:33] <Gran-VHL> 6just trying to get a time line figured

[21:33] <Gran-VHL> 6as to the rapture trib etc

[21:33] <Gran-VHL> 6not exact of course

[21:33] <VCI-Bob> This is at the end of the trib, Gran

[21:33] <Rich-VHL> 7only this time it will be with fire

[21:33] <VCI-Bob> the final battle, the big showdown

[21:33] <Bezalel-VHL> 2And we yearn for this....pray that the Lord will bring it about. Amazing what our Love can do.

[21:33] <VCI-Bob> the powers of mankind vs the Messiah

[21:34] <Rich-VHL> 7right Bez

[21:34] <Bezalel-VHL> 2And faith.

[21:34] <Gran-VHL> 6boy the 40,000 will have a problem hiding out till them

[21:34] <Rich-VHL> 7yup

[21:34] <redisback-VHL> it's no match

[21:34] <Ken-VHL> Choose sides wisely...

[21:34] <Gran-VHL> 6then

[21:34] <VCI-Bob> That's right, Red and Ken

[21:34] <VCI-Bob> Zephaniah elaborates:

[21:35] <VCI-Bob> "The great day of the LORD is near-- near and coming quickly. Listen! The cry on the day of the LORD will be bitter, the shouting of the warrior there. (Zephaniah 1:14 NIV)

[21:35] <VCI-Bob> That day will be a day of wrath, a day of distress and anguish, a day of trouble and ruin, a day of darkness and gloom, a day of clouds and blackness, (Zephaniah 1:15 NIV)

[21:35] <VCI-Bob> a day of trumpet and battle cry against the fortified cities and against the corner towers. (Zephaniah 1:16 NIV)

[21:35] <VCI-Bob> Very intense verses

[21:35] <Gran-VHL> 6yes but at the end of Z he gives a gentle time

[21:35] <Rich-VHL> 7descriptive for sure

[21:35] <VCI-Bob> Sobering, because we know what is coming on the world

[21:35] <Gran-VHL> 6restoation

[21:35] <VCI-Bob> yes, Gran :)

[21:36] <Gran-VHL> 6restoration

[21:36] <Rich-VHL> 7and we try to let it know but they will not listen

[21:36] <Ken-VHL> Why do I feel this is near? My old age or???

[21:36] <VCI-Bob> And more:

[21:36] <Gran-VHL> 6of course God will do the gleaning of HIS people

[21:36] <VCI-Bob> It is near, Ken

[21:36] <VCI-Bob> I will bring distress on the people and they will walk like blind men, because they have sinned against the LORD. Their blood will be poured out like dust and their entrails like filth. (Zephaniah 1:17 NIV)

[21:36] <VCI-Bob> Neither their silver nor their gold will be able to save them on the day of the Lord's wrath. In the fire of his jealousy the whole world will be consumed, for he will make a sudden end of all who live in the earth." (Zephaniah 1:18 NIV)

[21:37] <VCI-Bob> God is so loving, His compassion for the world was so far-reaching that He even sent His own Son to die....

[21:37] <Gran-VHL> 6yes

[21:37] <VCI-Bob> But... when His patience is ended, it will be unbelievable

[21:37] <VCI-Bob> unspeakable

[21:37] <Bezalel-VHL> 2Does live in the earth equate to "live in the world" as taking part of worldly things.

[21:38] <Rich-VHL> 7the harvest for us is still so large we must continue to labor

[21:38] <VCI-Bob> not sure, let's look at another translation

[21:38] <VCI-Bob> Neither their silver nor their gold Will be able to deliver them On the day of the LORD'S wrath; And all the earth will be devoured In the fire of His jealousy, For He will make a complete end, Indeed a terrifying one, Of all the inhabitants of the earth. (Zephaniah 1:18 NASB)

[21:38] <VCI-Bob> Yes, Rich

[21:38] <Gran-VHL> 6NKJ days of all those who dwell in the land

[21:39] <VCI-Bob> Thanks, Gran :)

[21:39] <Gran-VHL> 6says

[21:39] <Gran-VHL> 6welcome

[21:39] <Gran-VHL> 6<G>

[21:39] <VCI-Bob> Think about how the world places so much emphasis on economic growth and prosperity

[21:39] <VCI-Bob> but their silver and gold will be useless on that day

[21:39] <Rich-VHL> 7all this is comming to the earth because most have forgotten their God

[21:39] <VCI-Bob> no salvation there

[21:40] <VCI-Bob> yes, Rich

[21:40] <Bezalel-VHL> 2While stunting the spirit

[21:40] <VCI-Bob> And remember.....

[21:40] <Ken-VHL> Those things wont save anyone that day!

[21:40] <Rich-VHL> 7they will be melted

[21:40] <Gran-VHL> 6Bob where will the 144,00 be then?

[21:40] <VCI-Bob> not only forgotten, but by this point, the whole world will be ENTHUSIASTICALLY and DEVOTEDLY following the false god, the man of sin

[21:40] <Gran-VHL> 6 144.000

[21:41] <VCI-Bob> The will be supernaturally protected, Gran

[21:41] <Gran-VHL> 6but still here huh?

[21:41] <VCI-Bob> yes

[21:41] <VCI-Bob> I believe so

[21:41] <Gran-VHL> 6thats what i have tried to say before but some do not think so if we are raptured out of here

[21:41] <VCI-Bob> And whatever Christians have managed to escape the martyrdom (not many)

[21:42] <Bezalel-VHL> 2How about believers, Bob...will there be any left on earth at the end of the Wrath?

[21:42] <Gran-VHL> 6yes

[21:42] <VCI-Bob> A few, Bez, not many

[21:42] <Gran-VHL> 6maybe petra?

[21:42] <VCI-Bob> yes, Gran, perhaps so

[21:42] <Bezalel-VHL> 2The rest will have become martyrs?

[21:42] <VCI-Bob> Most will be Bez

[21:42] <Rich-VHL> 7I think so too

[21:43] <Gran-VHL> 6yes e ven so come soon Lord Jesus

[21:43] <VCI-Bob> And I believe the others left will be supernaturally protected from the wrath of God

[21:43] <VCI-Bob> Amen

[21:43] <Rich-VHL> 7Amen

[21:43] <Bezalel-VHL> 2Now I may be stretching, but the martyrs from tribulation become the army of the Lord?

[21:43] <Gran-VHL> 6yes the wrath of not for believers nor Gods chosen people

[21:43] <Gran-VHL> 6is not

[21:43] <VCI-Bob> It seems, Bez, that all believers will be in those armies, that's the way I see it

[21:44] <Gran-VHL> 6me too Bob

[21:44] <VCI-Bob> For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. (1 Thessalonians 4:16 NIV)

[21:44] <VCI-Bob> After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever. (1 Thessalonians 4:17 NIV)

[21:44] <Rich-VHL> 7will be riding horses too Bob

[21:44] <Bezalel-VHL> 2The dead will have risen, even those who died before tribulation?

[21:44] <VCI-Bob> We will meet him in the air, and fall into rank in the armies :)

[21:44] <VCI-Bob> Of course, the pre-trib proponents see it much differently

[21:44] <Gran-VHL> 6I would think that if that army clad in white were angles we would be told so?

[21:45] <Gran-VHL> 6oops angles

[21:45] <Gran-VHL> 6angels

[21:45] <VCI-Bob> Good question Rich....

[21:45] <Gran-VHL> 6finally got it

[21:45] <Bezalel-VHL> 2That's okay by me....There are a lot of people I want beside me then!

[21:45] <Rich-VHL> 7me too Bez

[21:45] <VCI-Bob> I saw heaven standing open and there before me was a white horse, whose rider is called Faithful and True. With justice he judges and makes war. (Revelation 19:11 NIV)

[21:45] <VCI-Bob> His eyes are like blazing fire, and on his head are many crowns. He has a name written on him that no one knows but he himself. (Revelation 19:12 NIV)

[21:45] <VCI-Bob> He is dressed in a robe dipped in blood, and his name is the Word of God. (Revelation 19:13 NIV)

[21:45] <VCI-Bob> The armies of heaven were following him, riding on white horses and dressed in fine linen, white and clean. (Revelation 19:14 NIV)

[21:45] <Gran-VHL> 6Bob am still trying to work it out

[21:45] <VCI-Bob> The answer is, yes

[21:45] <VCI-Bob> Me too, Gran :)

[21:46] <Gran-VHL> 6been pre trib for a long time

[21:46] <Rich-VHL> 7very good

[21:46] <Gran-VHL> 6some one said that he was pan trib it would all pan out

[21:46] <Ken-VHL> Amen.With fear and trembling.

[21:46] <VCI-Bob> No one has a handle on how it's all going to come together, we are all piecing it together, with different understandings

[21:46] <Bezalel-VHL> 2That's Delta's favorite.

[21:46] <Gran-VHL> 6who was that Bez was it you pretty good I thought

[21:46] <VCI-Bob> But, we know for certain what He has said, just not he timing of things

[21:46] <Rich-VHL> 7don't we see darkly now

[21:47] <VCI-Bob> Yes

[21:47] <Gran-VHL> 6yes

[21:47] <Bezalel-VHL> 2We recognize the season...

[21:47] <Gran-VHL> 6and getting darker

[21:47] <Rich-VHL> 7can't quite make things out real clear

[21:47] <Gran-VHL> 6well there are so many conflicting ideas

[21:47] <VCI-Bob> By the way, those verses I just quoted.. are in the same scene as the "great supper" verses earlier

[21:47] <VCI-Bob> if that helps you put it together

[21:47] <Bezalel-VHL> 2But, even Zephaniah shows the hope of restoration.....Glory to God!

[21:48] <Rich-VHL> 7thought so

[21:48] <VCI-Bob> Yes!

[21:48] <Rich-VHL> 7Amen Bez

[21:48] <Ken-VHL> Thank GOD for the guide book!

[21:48] <Bezalel-VHL> 2We may be a remnant, but our strength will be mighty.

[21:48] <Rich-VHL> 7oh yes Ken

[21:48] <redisback-VHL> hate to leave but I'm overtired. Good night all God's blessing to you

[21:48] <VCI-Bob> Indeed!

[21:48] <Bezalel-VHL> 2Night, Red.

[21:48] <VCI-Bob> Night Red! See you soon!

[21:48] <VCI-Bob> God bless!

[21:48] <Gran-VHL> 6shalom and god bless you REd

[21:48] <Rich-VHL> 7God Bless Red

[21:48] <Ken-VHL> Good night RED

[21:49] redisback-VHL [~redisback-VHL@jproxy3.talkcity.com] has quit IRC (redisback-VHL has left the room)

[21:49] <VCI-Bob> On to chapter 2?

[21:49] <Bezalel-VHL> 2Yes!

[21:49] <Gran-VHL> 6Bob question are we closing earlier these days?

[21:49] <Rich-VHL> 7OK by me

[21:49] <VCI-Bob> You're troopers :)

[21:49] <VCI-Bob> What, Gran, the chats?

[21:49] <Ken-VHL> Go!

[21:49] <Gran-VHL> 6someone asked me that lives on the west coast

[21:50] <Gran-VHL> 6yes

[21:50] <Gran-VHL> 6he has moved to Canada and can't get on early

[21:50] <VCI-Bob> Depends on who is here and so forth, usually between 10 and 11 ET

[21:50] <Gran-VHL> 6well that is what i told him so maybe he will try

[21:50] <Gran-VHL> 6he had hoped for 11

[21:50] <Gran-VHL> 6sorry continue Bob

[21:51] <Bezalel-VHL> 2Doesn't Stan need to get the logs for posting?

[21:51] <VCI-Bob> OK, Chapter 2 - the first few verses are directed at Israel, I think, and also, the believers

[21:51] <Gran-VHL> 6my sitter downer is hurting but wiill stick it out for a while

[21:51] <VCI-Bob> I email it to him

[21:51] <Rich-VHL> 7hang in there Gran

[21:51] <VCI-Bob> So I'll ask for your help on understanding this next three verses

[21:51] <VCI-Bob> Gather together, gather together, O shameful nation, (Zephaniah 2:1 NIV)

[21:51] <VCI-Bob> before the appointed time arrives and that day sweeps on like chaff, before the fierce anger of the LORD comes upon you, before the day of the Lord's wrath comes upon you. (Zephaniah 2:2 NIV)

[21:51] <VCI-Bob> Seek the LORD, all you humble of the land, you who do what he commands. Seek righteousness, seek humility; perhaps you will be sheltered on the day of the Lord's anger. (Zephaniah 2:3 NIV)

[21:52] <VCI-Bob> It's both a warning to the people of that day...

[21:52] <VCI-Bob> and the people of the future

[21:52] <Rich-VHL> 7yup

[21:52] <Bezalel-VHL> 2Seek humility (stop being prideful).

[21:52] <VCI-Bob> the "day of the Lord" often did have a "near" application, of impending doom in that day

[21:52] <VCI-Bob> But mostly speaks of God's Big Day

[21:53] <VCI-Bob> Yes, go on :)

[21:53] <Rich-VHL> 7what nation is He talking to Bob

[21:53] <VCI-Bob> What does it mean "gather together"?

[21:53] <Bezalel-VHL> 2And we will be sheltered on the Day of the Lord.

[21:53] <Rich-VHL> 7Israel or Judah

[21:53] <VCI-Bob> Judah, in that day, Israel, today, and "all you humble"

[21:54] <Rich-VHL> 7OK

[21:54] <Gran-VHL> 6sounds like he wanted them together to worship him

[21:54] <VCI-Bob> the believers "you who do what he commands"

[21:54] <VCI-Bob> Good, Gran

[21:54] <Gran-VHL> 6like at the tabernacle in the jorney across the desert

[21:55] <VCI-Bob> that day sweeps on like chaff - do you know what that means?

[21:55] <Bezalel-VHL> 2That's why I believe I'll be in Jerusalem. Gathered, grafted to my true root and vine.

[21:55] <Gran-VHL> 6to gather together in one mind

[21:55] <Rich-VHL> 7no what Bob

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[21:55] <VCI-Bob> Thanks Gran - excellent way to put it

[21:55] <VCI-Bob> Welcome Gran

[21:55] <Rich-VHL> 7yup Bez

[21:55] <Gran-VHL> 6well chaff is very light

[21:55] <VCI-Bob> chaff refers to the familiar "winnowing" picture.....

[21:55] <Gran-VHL> 6and will blow away

[21:56] <DeltaVHL> Shalom!

[21:56] <Rich-VHL> 7hello Delta

[21:56] <VCI-Bob> Where they take the winnowing fork, through the grain and chaff (the worthless stuff) in the air

[21:56] <Gran-VHL> 6Delta shalom where you been gal?

[21:56] <Bezalel-VHL> 2Delta, Delta, Delta.....

[21:56] <VCI-Bob> and the chaff blows away, and the good grain falls to the ground

[21:56] <Gran-VHL> 6yes Bob like i said it is very light will blow away

[21:56] <VCI-Bob> throw, that is

[21:56] <DeltaVHL> <---trying to be good grain!

[21:56] <Ken-VHL> Delta,HI!

[21:56] <VCI-Bob> LOL Delta

[21:57] <Gran-VHL> 6so are we all

[21:57] <DeltaVHL> Hey, we are to "bloom" where we are planted, right? :-)

[21:57] <Gran-VHL> 6trying to give Bob good answers

[21:57] <Gran-VHL> 6we are in Zep

[21:57] <Gran-VHL> 6:2

[21:57] <VCI-Bob> These are the verses, Delta

[21:57] <VCI-Bob> Gather together, gather together, O shameful nation, (Zephaniah 2:1 NIV)

[21:57] <VCI-Bob> before the appointed time arrives and that day sweeps on like chaff, before the fierce anger of the LORD comes upon you, before the day of the Lord's wrath comes upon you. (Zephaniah 2:2 NIV)

[21:57] <VCI-Bob> Seek the LORD, all you humble of the land, you who do what he commands. Seek righteousness, seek humility; perhaps you will be sheltered on the day of the Lord's anger. (Zephaniah 2:3 NIV)

[21:58] <DeltaVHL> Oh wow, that goes with Psalm 115!

[21:58] <VCI-Bob> This is reminiscent of Jesus saying:

[21:58] <DeltaVHL> oops

[21:59] <VCI-Bob> Gotta find it :)

[21:59] <VCI-Bob> Go ahead, Delta!

[21:59] <DeltaVHL> Not to us, Adonai, not to us, but to Your name give glory

[21:59] <VCI-Bob> "Be on guard, that your hearts may not be weighted down with dissipation and drunkenness and the worries of life, and that day come on you suddenly like a trap; (Luke 21:34 NASB)

[21:59] <VCI-Bob> for it will come upon all those who dwell on the face of all the earth. (Luke 21:35 NASB)

[21:59] <VCI-Bob> "But keep on the alert at all times, praying in order that you may have strength to escape all these things that are about to take place, and to stand before the Son of Man." (Luke 21:36 NASB)

[22:00] <DeltaVHL> Yep.

[22:00] <Rich-VHL> 7Amen

[22:00] <Gran-VHL> 6bob that is one verse that leads one to think pre trib

[22:01] <VCI-Bob> Well, perhaps not, Gran?

[22:01] <DeltaVHL> I cant access it, but, I like Psalm 115. especially verses 2, 3, 17, & 18]

[22:01] <Gran-VHL> 6help me out here Bob

[22:01] <VCI-Bob> Does one need "strength" to be raptured out? Or "strength" to endure to the end?

[22:02] <VCI-Bob> If I am going to be raptured out beforehand, why would I need "strength" ?

[22:02] <DeltaVHL> strength to run the race? To fight the good fight?

[22:02] <Bezalel-VHL> 2You took the words from my mouth, Bob....

[22:02] <Ken-VHL> Sometimes just to get through today!

[22:02] <Gran-VHL> 6well here we are told to pray to have strength to escape

[22:02] <Bezalel-VHL> 2Out the other side of the tribulation, Gran.

[22:02] <Gran-VHL> 6or endure to the end

[22:03] <Bezalel-VHL> 2And be ready to die as martyr for the Lord.

[22:03] <Rich-VHL> 7thats what I think too to the end

[22:03] <Gran-VHL> 6I am torn both ways guys

[22:03] <VCI-Bob> 1628. ekpheugo, ek-fyoo'-go; from G1537 and G5343; to flee out:--escape, flee. - that's the Greek word

[22:03] <VCI-Bob> Perhaps one of our scholars can do a study on that :)

[22:03] <Rich-VHL> 7I know Gran

[22:03] <DeltaVHL> Thinking on the Parable of the Ten Virgins, here, too.

[22:04] <DeltaVHL> Oh well

[22:04] <Gran-VHL> 6I have been taught that that verse and others mean to escape the trib

[22:04] <Rich-VHL> 7I pray for a rapture too but I just don't think it will be Gran

[22:04] <Gran-VHL> 6in the rapture

[22:04] <Gran-VHL> 6also I have heard verses in Thess used both ways also

[22:04] <VCI-Bob> Think about this....

[22:05] <DeltaVHL> The people of Israel had to flee at a moment's notice when invaded many times

[22:05] <VCI-Bob> "Be careful, or your hearts will be weighed down with dissipation, drunkenness and the anxieties of life, and that day will close on you unexpectedly like a trap. (Luke 21:34 NIV)

[22:05] <VCI-Bob> That's the first thing he said

[22:05] <VCI-Bob> For it will come upon all those who live on the face of the whole earth. (Luke 21:35 NIV)

[22:05] <VCI-Bob> Be always on the watch, and pray that you may be able to escape all that is about to happen, and that you may be able to stand before the Son of Man." (Luke 21:36 NIV)

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[22:05] <VCI-Bob> If a person is not watching and praying....

[22:05] <DeltaVHL> Shalom Skip!

[22:05] <VCI-Bob> he or she is going to become overcome by the world

[22:05] <skip-VHL> hi

[22:05] <Gran-VHL> 6so I am prepared for the worst and praying for the best

[22:05] <Bezalel-VHL> 2Hi Skip

[22:05] <Rich-VHL> 7we have to be awake and not sleep

[22:05] <Gran-VHL> 6Skip shalom

[22:05] <DeltaVHL> Hey, Gran, it sounds like a plan! :-)

[22:05] <Rich-VHL> 7hello skip

[22:06] <VCI-Bob> They would not "escape" from the entrapment of evil, but would be overcome

[22:06] <DeltaVHL> Skip, how are the ears?

[22:06] <skip-VHL> HELL ALL

[22:06] <skip-VHL> HELLO

[22:06] <DeltaVHL> ROFL!!!!!!!

[22:06] <VCI-Bob> they would be overtaken by "all that is about to happen"

[22:06] <skip-VHL> so sorry

[22:06] <Ken-VHL> Hi. Skip.

[22:06] <VCI-Bob> That is why He said to pray for strength - to escape from the pervading evil

[22:06] <VCI-Bob> See it?

[22:06] <skip-VHL> doing good Delta It wasnt very bad

[22:06] <VCI-Bob> Not to be raptured out

[22:06] <Rich-VHL> 7sure do Bob

[22:06] <DeltaVHL> Yes.

[22:07] <DeltaVHL> :-) Skip!

[22:07] <Gran-VHL> 6thats good skip

[22:07] <Gran-VHL> 6but Delta I thought you were the one having the tubes put in

[22:07] <Bezalel-VHL> 2Besides Gran, we need to be here to be a thorn in the side of the AC.

[22:07] <skip-VHL> 4not near as bad as an ear ache

[22:07] <DeltaVHL> Gran, we both are

[22:07] <Gran-VHL> 6yes Bez

[22:07] <VCI-Bob> It's the evil that is the danger, that we need to pray for strength to "escape"

[22:07] <Rich-VHL> 7so true Bez

[22:07] <Gran-VHL> 6O I C

[22:08] <DeltaVHL> Well, after the announcement today about the Western Wall, it sounds as though allah is afraid of the L-rd G-d of Israel!

[22:08] <Gran-VHL> 6see Delta everyone is differnt

[22:08] <Rich-VHL> 7and remain true to our Lord

[22:08] <DeltaVHL> :-) Gran

[22:08] <skip-VHL> 4everything sounds SO LOUD now tho

[22:08] <Gran-VHL> 6what was that Delta

[22:08] <Ken-VHL> What? Delta.

[22:08] <DeltaVHL> Moslems don't even want Jewish people to touch the Wall, Gran

[22:08] <Rich-VHL> 7what annoucement Delta

[22:08] <Bezalel-VHL> 2Not muffled by congestion anymore, Skip?

[22:08] <skip-VHL> 4what announcment at the wall?

[22:09] <VCI-Bob> One last bit from Zephaniah, skipping to the end for the good stuff :)

[22:09] <Gran-VHL> 6can they do that?

[22:09] <DeltaVHL> Sorry Bob.

[22:09] <Bezalel-VHL> 2I like good stuff.

[22:09] <VCI-Bob> Eat this up!

[22:09] <VCI-Bob> Sing, O Daughter of Zion; shout aloud, O Israel! Be glad and rejoice with all your heart, O Daughter of Jerusalem! (Zephaniah 3:14 NIV)

[22:09] <VCI-Bob> The LORD has taken away your punishment, he has turned back your enemy. The LORD, the King of Israel, is with you; never again will you fear any harm. (Zephaniah 3:15 NIV)

[22:09] <VCI-Bob> On that day they will say to Jerusalem, "Do not fear, O Zion; do not let your hands hang limp. (Zephaniah 3:16 NIV)

[22:09] <VCI-Bob> The LORD your God is with you, he is mighty to save. He will take great delight in you, he will quiet you with his love, he will rejoice over you with singing." (Zephaniah 3:17 NIV)

[22:09] <skip-VHL> 4NO BEZ

[22:09] <Gran-VHL> 6yes Bob I read that

[22:09] <Gran-VHL> 6I like to skip to the end

[22:09] <Gran-VHL> 6like Rev

[22:09] <VCI-Bob> :)

[22:09] <DeltaVHL> YEAH G-D!!!!!!!

[22:09] <VCI-Bob> The King of Israel!

[22:09] <Ken-VHL> AMEN

[22:09] <Gran-VHL> 6Go Jesus

[22:10] <VCI-Bob> Oh what fantastic words

[22:10] <DeltaVHL> YESHUA! Lion of Judah!

[22:10] <Rich-VHL> 7oh the Love He has for us

[22:10] <Gran-VHL> 6ys

[22:10] <DeltaVHL> Hey, reminds me of a song...

[22:10] <DeltaVHL> "Dancin in the Streets"

[22:10] <Gran-VHL> 6we have HIS words to comfort us

[22:10] <DeltaVHL> :-)

[22:10] <Gran-VHL> 6and to fire us up

[22:10] <Gran-VHL> 6like David

[22:10] <Rich-VHL> 7yes like David Gran

[22:10] <VCI-Bob> Zephaniah saw the bleakest of scenes, but he also saw the most joyous of scenes!

[22:11] <DeltaVHL> Only keep the undies covered, Gran! :-)

[22:11] <skip-VHL> 4lol

[22:11] <Gran-VHL> 6<G>

[22:11] <Gran-VHL> 6Delta sheesh

[22:11] <Bezalel-VHL> 2ROFL!!!

[22:11] <Gran-VHL> 6<G>

[22:11] <VCI-Bob> LOL

[22:11] <Rich-VHL> 7OH OH I forgot what David did

[22:11] <DeltaVHL> ROFL....can't hardly type!

[22:11] <VCI-Bob> OK, this is definately not a "G" rated night :)

[22:12] <Gran-VHL> 6he danced down the street before the ARK

[22:12] <DeltaVHL> ROFLLLLLLLLLLLL!!!!

[22:12] <Gran-VHL> 6and took off his royal robes

[22:12] <Rich-VHL> 7yeah I remember now

[22:12] <VCI-Bob> <---- quickly steps in with more Bible verses:

[22:12] <VCI-Bob> Sing, O Daughter of Zion; shout aloud, O Israel! Be glad and rejoice with all your heart, O Daughter of Jerusalem! (Zephaniah 3:14 NIV)

[22:12] <VCI-Bob> The LORD has taken away your punishment, he has turned back your enemy. The LORD, the King of Israel, is with you; never again will you fear any harm. (Zephaniah 3:15 NIV)

[22:12] <VCI-Bob> On that day they will say to Jerusalem, "Do not fear, O Zion; do not let your hands hang limp. (Zephaniah 3:16 NIV)

[22:12] <VCI-Bob> The LORD your God is with you, he is mighty to save. He will take great delight in you, he will quiet you with his love, he will rejoice over you with singing." (Zephaniah 3:17 NIV)

[22:12] <Gran-VHL> 6made his wife mad

[22:12] <DeltaVHL> Yeah, but think what a party we will have when Yeshua

[22:12] <VCI-Bob> oops

[22:12] <DeltaVHL> returns

[22:12] <VCI-Bob> At that time I will gather you; at that time I will bring you home. I will give you honor and praise among all the peoples of the earth when I restore your fortunes before your very eyes," says the LORD. (Zephaniah 3:20 NIV)

[22:12] <VCI-Bob> I love that last phrase

[22:12] <DeltaVHL> YEAH!!!!!!!!!!

[22:12] <Gran-VHL> 6going to fast Bob can't read it

[22:12] <VCI-Bob> "when I restore your fortunes before your very eyes," says the LORD."

[22:13] <Gran-VHL> 6will scroll back up

[22:13] <DeltaVHL> Dancin, Dancin in the streets! Praising the Lord! Won't that be neat? heee hee!

[22:13] <Rich-VHL> 7Praise His Holy Name

[22:13] <VCI-Bob> Israel, keep watching, the God of heaven is going to do fantastic things!

[22:13] <DeltaVHL> Hallelujah!

[22:13] <VCI-Bob> Before your very eyes!

[22:13] <Bezalel-VHL> 2Before your very eyes, and we'll be there to participate!

[22:13] <Ken-VHL> MARANATHA!!!!

[22:13] <VCI-Bob> yeah!

[22:13] <Rich-VHL> 7Israel your God is comming soon

[22:13] <skip-VHL> 4pretty fantastic what he does daily too

[22:13] <DeltaVHL> Hey Bob?

[22:13] <VCI-Bob> Yes?

[22:14] <VCI-Bob> Hey, Skip, sorry I missed your entrance

[22:14] <DeltaVHL> Here's a good one!

[22:14] <Ken-VHL> Right Skip!

[22:14] <VCI-Bob> ok - go for it

[22:14] <skip-VHL> 4HI BOB

[22:14] <DeltaVHL> "THe dead can't praise Adonai, not those who sink down into silence. But we will bless Adonai from now on and forever"

[22:14] <VCI-Bob> Hi! I noticed your customary red words :)

[22:15] <skip-VHL> 4HA!

[22:15] <DeltaVHL> Psalm 115: 17 & 18

[22:15] <VCI-Bob> Where is that from, Delta?

[22:15] <VCI-Bob> It is not the dead who praise the LORD, those who go down to silence; (Psalms 115:17 NIV)

[22:15] <VCI-Bob> it is we who extol the LORD, both now and forevermore. Praise the LORD. (Psalms 115:18 NIV)

[22:15] <VCI-Bob> Good stuff!

[22:15] <DeltaVHL> Yeah!

[22:15] <Gran-VHL> 6when that happens I will be able to dance a jig for sure not now tho

[22:15] <DeltaVHL> The first of the chapter is good too!

[22:15] <DeltaVHL> So is the middle.... LOL

[22:15] <Bezalel-VHL> 2How about the end, Delta?

[22:15] <VCI-Bob> Actually, Delta, when it's LORD in all caps... it's Yahweh, or YHVH

[22:15] <skip-VHL> 4Iwill be with you Gran

[22:16] <Gran-VHL> 6yeah skip great

[22:16] <DeltaVHL> I typed it from CJB....and yep, it's all caps! Thanks! :-)

[22:16] <Gran-VHL> 6CJB ?

[22:16] <Ken-VHL> Hey! Bob, I have to go. Thanks again. Shalom ALL .

[22:17] <DeltaVHL> Ken, good seeing you!

[22:17] <Gran-VHL> 6Ken shalom and God bless you come back soon

[22:17] <Rich-VHL> 7God Bless Ken

[22:17] <VCI-Bob> Some translations now do it that way, and I think it's good - rather than LORD, it's Yahweh

[22:17] <VCI-Bob> Thanks Ken! Always a pleasure!

[22:17] <Bezalel-VHL> 2Night Ken

[22:17] <DeltaVHL> Kewl, Bob!

[22:17] <skip-VHL> 4Shalom Ken

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[22:18] <VCI-Bob> whew!

[22:18] <DeltaVHL> Can ya'll see us praising the L-rd Yeshua?

[22:18] <VCI-Bob> Did you want me to post more of Psalm 115, Delta?

[22:18] <DeltaVHL> I mean. wow.....even the angels can't do it like us!

[22:18] <DeltaVHL> Yes, Bob, please?

[22:18] <VCI-Bob> sure - all of it?

[22:18] <DeltaVHL> (thanks!)

[22:19] <Bezalel-VHL> 2Whirling dervishes....

[22:19] <DeltaVHL> LOL...what ever hits you?

[22:19] <VCI-Bob> Not to us, O LORD, not to us but to your name be the glory, because of your love and faithfulness. (Psalms 115:1 NIV)

[22:19] <VCI-Bob> Why do the nations say, "Where is their God?" (Psalms 115:2 NIV)

[22:19] <VCI-Bob> Our God is in heaven; he does whatever pleases him. (Psalms 115:3 NIV)

[22:19] <VCI-Bob> This is the "in your face" Psalm (my title anyway) :)

[22:19] <VCI-Bob> God does whatever He wants!

[22:19] <DeltaVHL> Yeah! :-)

[22:19] <skip-VHL> 4lol

[22:19] <Rich-VHL> 7when He wants Bob

[22:19] <Bezalel-VHL> 2LOL!

[22:19] <DeltaVHL> G-d does as He pleases!

[22:19] <VCI-Bob> But their idols are silver and gold, made by the hands of men. (Psalms 115:4 NIV)

[22:19] <VCI-Bob> They have mouths, but cannot speak, eyes, but they cannot see; (Psalms 115:5 NIV)

[22:19] <VCI-Bob> they have ears, but cannot hear, noses, but they cannot smell; (Psalms 115:6 NIV)

[22:19] <VCI-Bob> they have hands, but cannot feel, feet, but they cannot walk; nor can they utter a sound with their throats. (Psalms 115:7 NIV)

[22:20] <Bezalel-VHL> 2I can live with that!

[22:20] <VCI-Bob> Those idols! Ha! Frauds, all of them!

[22:20] <DeltaVHL> They are DEAD!

[22:20] <VCI-Bob> In your face, idols!

[22:20] <DeltaVHL> (raspberry...)

[22:20] <DeltaVHL> hee hee!

[22:20] <VCI-Bob> Those who make them will be like them, and so will all who trust in them. (Psalms 115:8 NIV)

[22:20] <Rich-VHL> 7thats what I think too

[22:20] <VCI-Bob> V 8 is an important spiritual principal to take note of

[22:20] <DeltaVHL> Uh, thats false and dead, right?

[22:21] <VCI-Bob> always true

[22:21] <VCI-Bob> A person becomes like his or her idol

[22:21] <VCI-Bob> Always

[22:21] <skip-VHL> 4yepurs

[22:21] <Rich-VHL> 7yup

[22:21] <DeltaVHL> no idols, though, cause it violates the top Ten!

[22:22] <DeltaVHL> Commandments, that is, sorry

[22:22] <VCI-Bob> O house of Israel, trust in the LORD-- he is their help and shield. (Psalms 115:9 NIV)

[22:22] <VCI-Bob> O house of Aaron, trust in the LORD-- he is their help and shield. (Psalms 115:10 NIV)

[22:22] <VCI-Bob> You who fear him, trust in the LORD-- he is their help and shield. (Psalms 115:11 NIV)

[22:22] <Rich-VHL> 7top ten???

[22:22] <VCI-Bob> The LORD remembers us and will bless us: He will bless the house of Israel, he will bless the house of Aaron, (Psalms 115:12 NIV)

[22:22] <Gran-VHL> 6commandments Rich

[22:22] <DeltaVHL> He doesn't forget!

[22:22] <VCI-Bob> When we trust - God sees it! He doesn't ignore it, but always rewards our trust - never disappoints us, always remembers!

[22:23] <DeltaVHL> :-)

[22:23] <Rich-VHL> 7we have to trust Him its as Peter said to Jesus He only has the words of eternal life

[22:23] <VCI-Bob> he will bless those who fear the LORD-- small and great alike. (Psalms 115:13 NIV)

[22:23] <VCI-Bob> May the LORD make you increase, both you and your children. (Psalms 115:14 NIV)

[22:23] <VCI-Bob> May you be blessed by the LORD, the Maker of heaven and earth. (Psalms 115:15 NIV)

[22:23] <DeltaVHL> He blesses the big and the small

[22:23] <VCI-Bob> The highest heavens belong to the LORD, but the earth he has given to man. (Psalms 115:16 NIV)

[22:24] <VCI-Bob> I think there are some hidden principals in that verse also - any thoughts?

[22:24] <Gran-VHL> 6and Adam gave it to satan

[22:24] <Rich-VHL> 7the last one Bob

[22:24] <DeltaVHL> The angels praise Him in heaven, and we can praise Him on earth?

[22:24] <VCI-Bob> yes

[22:24] <DeltaVHL> We choose, have free reign.

[22:25] <VCI-Bob> Good, anything else?

[22:25] <Gran-VHL> 6yes the angels only wish they could have salvation

[22:25] <Rich-VHL> 7He gave the earth to man for him to be tested on

[22:25] <skip-VHL> 4I choose the G-D of ISRAEL

[22:25] <VCI-Bob> Good

[22:25] <Gran-VHL> 6but rejoice when a sinner comes home

[22:25] <VCI-Bob> Anything else?

[22:25] <DeltaVHL> Yeah, Gran, they are Dancin in the Streets!

[22:25] <VCI-Bob> What I see also is this - There are certain things that God reserves for Himself, that He has not given man permission to do

[22:26] <DeltaVHL> ooooh! Good Bob!

[22:26] <skip-VHL> 4I agree BOB

[22:26] <Gran-VHL> 6God blesses us

[22:26] <Rich-VHL> 7thats true

[22:26] <Rich-VHL> 7we're only His little ones and can't do all that He does

[22:26] <skip-VHL> 4and G-DS thoughts are not mans thoughts

[22:27] <VCI-Bob> Like, tinker with the creation job? God's perogative alone, not the mad scientists of genetic experimentation who have no idea what they are doing

[22:27] <DeltaVHL> ugh, or the Genome dealy

[22:27] <Gran-VHL> 6yeah cloning

[22:27] <Gran-VHL> 6sheesh

[22:27] <DeltaVHL> Or, dare I say it? Abortion?

[22:27] <Rich-VHL> 7oh genetics isn't that awfull what science plans

[22:27] <Gran-VHL> 6yes for sure

[22:27] <Bezalel-VHL> 2Or force evolution down our throats as a fact, not theory.

[22:28] <DeltaVHL> Amen, Bez on that!

[22:28] <Gran-VHL> 6ys that is still a fight

[22:28] <VCI-Bob> Yeah, Delta - we talked about that a little earlier - Molech, the demon of child sacrifice

[22:28] <skip-VHL> 4I used to have a lot of ?s for G-D but realized even if he told me i couldnt understand anyway

[22:28] <DeltaVHL> Molech and allah can go where Yeshua sends them!

[22:28] <VCI-Bob> Right, Bez

[22:28] <DeltaVHL> In the end, that is

[22:28] <Bezalel-VHL> 2That's wonderful Skip. Can I use it?

[22:28] <DeltaVHL> Crispy Critters

[22:28] <skip-VHL> 4sure Bez

[22:28] <DeltaVHL> :-) Skip, yeah!

[22:28] <Bezalel-VHL> 2Thanks!

[22:29] <Rich-VHL> 7they can't prove evolution but it is the best thing they can come up with to try to make the Bible false

[22:29] <Gran-VHL> 6I believe when we get there all our questions will disappear anyway

[22:29] <VCI-Bob> Verses about Hell in the OT:

[22:29] <VCI-Bob> Topheth has long been prepared; it has been made ready for the king. Its fire pit has been made deep and wide, with an abundance of fire and wood; the breath of the LORD, like a stream of burning sulfur, sets it ablaze. (Isaiah 30:33 NIV)

[22:29] <VCI-Bob> "And they will go out and look upon the dead bodies of those who rebelled against me; their worm will not die, nor will their fire be quenched, and they will be loathsome to all mankind." (Isaiah 66:24 NIV)

[22:29] <DeltaVHL> Stinky!

[22:29] <Gran-VHL> 6yukky

[22:30] <Rich-VHL> 7they won't be quite dead then Bob

[22:30] <VCI-Bob> And, the fate of Satan:

[22:30] <VCI-Bob> All your pomp has been brought down to the grave, along with the noise of your harps; maggots are spread out beneath you and worms cover you. (Isaiah 14:11 NIV)

[22:30] <skip-VHL> 4eternal torment

[22:30] <Gran-VHL> 6oh my

[22:30] <Bezalel-VHL> 2The Lake for Fire!

[22:30] <Bezalel-VHL> 2of

[22:30] <DeltaVHL> ugh, ugh, ugh

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[22:30] <Debi_-VHL> hi

[22:30] <VCI-Bob> ugh is right

[22:30] <Gran-VHL> 6but satan is not a man so how can he get maggots?

[22:31] <DeltaVHL> Shalom Debi!

[22:31] <skip-VHL> 4HI DEBI

[22:31] <VCI-Bob> Hi Debi! Welcome!

[22:31] <Rich-VHL> 7hello Debi

[22:31] <Gran-VHL> 6Debi shaom

[22:31] <Debi_-VHL> Shalom

[22:31] <Gran-VHL> 6shalom

[22:31] <VCI-Bob> Be right back in a few - carry on....

[22:31] <DeltaVHL> Uh, Gran, cause G-d does as He pleases?

[22:31] <Bezalel-VHL> 2Hi Deb

[22:31] <Gran-VHL> 6well yes thats true

[22:31] <Debi_-VHL> topic?

[22:31] <Rich-VHL> 7Delta what happened at the wll in Israel

[22:31] <skip-VHL> 4I have to go to my other job now SHALOM ALL

[22:31] <DeltaVHL> Rich?

[22:31] <Gran-VHL> 6oh Delta after read the transript

[22:31] <Debi_-VHL> bye Skip

[22:31] <Rich-VHL> 7God Bless skip

[22:31] <DeltaVHL> Shalom Skip!

[22:31] <skip-VHL> 4but first tell us Delta

[22:32] <DeltaVHL> Thanks for the encouragement

[22:32] <Bezalel-VHL> 2Night Skip

[22:32] <Gran-VHL> 6about that any gospel law I told you about Bob was telling us

[22:32] <DeltaVHL> tell what? I am confused?

[22:32] <Gran-VHL> 6skip shalom and god bless you

[22:32] <DeltaVHL> Oh the WALL!

[22:32] <Rich-VHL> 7yup

[22:32] <Gran-VHL> 6no just read the transspript

[22:32] <DeltaVHL> The Moslems are upset cause the Jewish people want to secure loose stones in the Wall

[22:33] <Gran-VHL> 6no this is the Knessite

[22:33] <Gran-VHL> 6just read it

[22:33] <DeltaVHL> and it's their property since it's part of the Temple Mount

[22:33] <Rich-VHL> 7how upset are they

[22:33] <DeltaVHL> They tried to pass a "law"

[22:33] <Gran-VHL> 6yes they do not want Jews to even touch the wall

[22:33] <DeltaVHL> If you go to the Arutz-Sheva website, it's there

[22:33] <Rich-VHL> 7oh oh they now think they own the western wall too

[22:33] <skip-VHL> 4G_D BLESS YOU ALL good night

[22:33] <Gran-VHL> 6no Delta different law

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[22:33] <DeltaVHL> Shalom Skip!

[22:34] <Gran-VHL> 6against Gospel

[22:34] <Rich-VHL> 7night skip

[22:34] <DeltaVHL> Well it all belongs to G-d!

[22:34] <Rich-VHL> 7thats for sure

[22:34] <Gran-VHL> 6Stan does not think it will pass but need much prayer

[22:34] <Bezalel-VHL> 2Gran's talking about a law that passed first reading in the Knesset. It will outlaw evangelism in Israel.

[22:34] <DeltaVHL> And He will bring down their mosques and dome!

[22:34] <DeltaVHL> No, Gran, that's a different bill, I think

[22:34] <Gran-VHL> 6yeah Delta an earthquake

[22:35] <DeltaVHL> About not allowing any evangelism in Israel.

[22:35] <Gran-VHL> 6yes Delta two different things

[22:35] <Gran-VHL> 6we talked about

[22:35] <DeltaVHL> ;-) Gran

[22:35] <DeltaVHL> See what I get for coming in late? :-)

[22:35] <Gran-VHL> 6Bob was listening to Chosen People link interesting

[22:36] <Gran-VHL> 6yes for sure

[22:36] <Bezalel-VHL> 2There's a petition to sign....www.chosen-people.com

[22:36] <Debi_-VHL> peace

[22:36] <DeltaVHL> Well, even if evangelism were outlawed, we would find a way to proclaim Yeshua's love in action

[22:36] <Gran-VHL> 6yes

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[22:37] <Gran-VHL> 6Bob said he would put up a link on his website

[22:37] <Rich-VHL> 7good night friends God Bless everyone of you and may He Bless Israel too

[22:37] <Gran-VHL> 6for it

[22:37] <DeltaVHL> Shalom Rich!

[22:37] <Gran-VHL> 6rich god bless

[22:37] <Gran-VHL> 6see you soon

[22:37] <Bezalel-VHL> 2Night RIch

[22:37] <Rich-VHL> 7Love you all in Jesus

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[22:38] <DeltaVHL> I had a funny thought about the Wall conflict...

[22:38] <Bezalel-VHL> 2Funny, hah-hah?

[22:38] <Gran-VHL> 6strange?

[22:38] <DeltaVHL> Allah is so afraid of the L-rd G-d of Israel, he doesn't even want a Jewish person to touch the Wall

[22:38] <DeltaVHL> Now, that is fear.

[22:38] <Gran-VHL> 6yes sounds like it

[22:39] <DeltaVHL> Because the prayers of the people are effective

[22:39] <DeltaVHL> They are turning to G-d

[22:39] <Gran-VHL> 6yes

[22:39] <DeltaVHL> and calling for Messiah!

[22:39] <Gran-VHL> 6and HE will come

[22:39] <Gran-VHL> 6when they least expect HIM

[22:39] <DeltaVHL> And they will know Messiah in all His fullness! He is THE way, THE truth and THE life!

[22:39] <Gran-VHL> 6AMEN

[22:39] <Bezalel-VHL> 2I sent my first e-mail to Pres. Bush. Asked him to move the embassy and withdraw the human rights protests against Israel.

[22:39] <DeltaVHL> Ok, I'm preachin' arem

[22:39] <DeltaVHL> aren't I?

[22:40] <Gran-VHL> 6yup

[22:40] <DeltaVHL> Bez? Snail mail him too, and call

[22:40] <DeltaVHL> Cause most time the email goes into "file 13"

[22:40] <Bezalel-VHL> 2Hopefully, they'll add it to their statistics anyway.

[22:40] <Gran-VHL> 6I hope not when I email my congressmen I always get a reply back

[22:40] <Gran-VHL> 6and senators

[22:41] <DeltaVHL> Yep. I call and harass my legislators too

[22:41] <Gran-VHL> 6even the Dem

[22:41] <DeltaVHL> LOL, I had a reply once that referred to Netanyahu as PM

[22:41] <Gran-VHL> 6lately

[22:41] <Gran-VHL> 6??

[22:41] <DeltaVHL> This was a year after Barak was in, yes

[22:41] <DeltaVHL> So...sometimes I think they have form letters. :-)

[22:41] <DeltaVHL> I call anyway, and I write snail mail

[22:41] <Gran-VHL> 6my my well look who the Pres was then

[22:41] <DeltaVHL> Just cause

[22:42] <Gran-VHL> 6He he

[22:42] <DeltaVHL> Uh, Gran? The Senator who wrote it is part of Pres Bush's cabinet. :-)

[22:42] <Gran-VHL> 6maybe they took those with them

[22:42] <DeltaVHL> ahem

[22:42] <Gran-VHL> 6along with stuff they stole

[22:42] <Bezalel-VHL> 2I did see the news piece on VHL about the US issuing protest against Israel for human rights violations.

[22:42] <Bezalel-VHL> 2Big John?

[22:42] <DeltaVHL> Isn't that strange, Bez?

[22:42] <Gran-VHL> 6I did see that

[22:43] <DeltaVHL> yep, Bez

[22:43] <Gran-VHL> 6who is he Delta

[22:43] <Gran-VHL> 6secret name?

[22:43] <DeltaVHL> Why do they not see it when Palestinians violate human rights against Israeli's?

[22:43] <Bezalel-VHL> 2That was the reason I sent the E-mail. But I'll keep sending. And I'll take your advice Delta, and go with some snail mail.

[22:44] <Gran-VHL> 6hey maybe we can get him to register with VHL and chat with us

[22:44] <DeltaVHL> Yea, the office workers answer a lot of the mail, not the Senator....but they have to report the numbers called in about what

[22:44] <VCI-Bob> OK. I am back

[22:44] <Gran-VHL> 6that would be good he would ge t an ear full huh?

[22:44] <Bezalel-VHL> 2An Arab runs a bus into a crowd of Israelis, kills 8 injures 20 and the Israelis are violating human rights.

[22:44] <DeltaVHL> Hey Bob? We went into Politics while you were gone, I think.

[22:44] <DeltaVHL> :-)

[22:45] <Gran-VHL> 6yeaah a little bit

[22:45] <Gran-VHL> 6somehow it all goes together

[22:45] <DeltaVHL> All nations will turn against Israel :-9

[22:45] <DeltaVHL> ooops

[22:45] <Bezalel-VHL> 2We slipped the leash.

[22:45] <DeltaVHL> :-(

[22:45] <VCI-Bob> that's fine :) As long as you don't actually GO into politics :)

[22:45] <Gran-VHL> 6while the cats away you know <G>

[22:45] <DeltaVHL> Now, Bob, I was thinking of running for Pres!

[22:45] <Bezalel-VHL> 2Seems like politics pays well....

[22:45] <DeltaVHL> hee hee!

[22:46] <VCI-Bob> oh that's a scary thought - let me speak to your husband :)

[22:46] <Bezalel-VHL> 2And they have fantastic retirement benefits.

[22:46] <Gran-VHL> 6well I will onlly agree to run for PM or Pres of Israel remember kids.

[22:46] <DeltaVHL> ROFL!!!!!!!!! Bob!

[22:46] <Gran-VHL> 6yeaah ROFL

[22:46] <VCI-Bob> <g>

[22:46] <DeltaVHL> Ok, I'll run for Rep.

[22:47] <VCI-Bob> Hey, I got a new bicycle today!

[22:47] <VCI-Bob> :)

[22:47] <DeltaVHL> We know not to run for Senator around here.... but, I won't go farther with that!

[22:47] <Gran-VHL> 6but it would take me years to understand the way they do stuff over there. it is confusing enough here

[22:47] <Bezalel-VHL> 2Oh, go for Carnahan's senate seat, at least.

[22:47] <DeltaVHL> uh oh, what kind, Bob?

[22:47] <DeltaVHL> Bez, I will not say it, I will not say it. I will be good

[22:47] <Gran-VHL> 6yes what kind Bob

[22:47] <DeltaVHL> :-)

[22:47] <Bezalel-VHL> 2For your trips to NJ, Bob?

[22:47] <VCI-Bob> A "Comfort Cruiser" LOL - you can tell I'm not a youngster now :)

[22:48] <DeltaVHL> Uh oh....a "motor bike?"

[22:48] <Gran-VHL> 6I have a trek and finally got the tires pumped up

[22:48] <VCI-Bob> No, bicycle - crossover

[22:48] <Gran-VHL> 6a motor scooter Bob not a cushman?

[22:48] <VCI-Bob> I love to ride bike

[22:48] <VCI-Bob> No motor

[22:48] <DeltaVHL> I have a great bike, but, needs a new tire

[22:48] <Gran-VHL> 6me too since 7 years old

[22:49] <Gran-VHL> 6never lost my balance

[22:49] <DeltaVHL> Hey, I hate to do this, but, I must get up early to go to doc....please keep me in prayer tomorrow!

[22:49] <Gran-VHL> 6but our road is still dirt well now mud

[22:49] <DeltaVHL> :-)

[22:49] <VCI-Bob> How long would 1000 miles take on a bike, Bez? Quite awhile

[22:49] <DeltaVHL> Shalom!

[22:49] <VCI-Bob> God bless, Delta!

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[22:49] <Gran-VHL> 6OK /dear read the transript

[22:49] <Bezalel-VHL> 2Not for you, Bob. You can work wonders! :-)

[22:49] <Gran-VHL> 6and email me a letter not just a forward sheesh

[22:50] <VCI-Bob> hardly! :)

[22:50] <Gran-VHL> 6shalom Delta

[22:50] <VCI-Bob> OK - my assignment is to find a map for Gran

[22:50] <Gran-VHL> 6and all I need to get up and go to beddy by shalom and God bless you all unil next time

[22:51] <VCI-Bob> Night, Gran!

[22:51] <Gran-VHL> 6GOOD fellow Bob

[22:51] <Bezalel-VHL> 2I'll say good night also. As always, thank you for the wisdom and faith of these chats, Bob.

[22:51] <Bezalel-VHL> 2Night Gran.

[22:51] <VCI-Bob> My pleasure, Bez! God bless!

[22:51] <Gran-VHL> 6yes Bob we learn so much if we can remember that is

[22:51] <VCI-Bob> :)

[22:51] <VCI-Bob> I'm glad!

[22:51] <Bezalel-VHL> 2And blessings to you and Gran....

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[22:52] <Gran-VHL> 6I am in a romans study on Sat night and we move nice and slow so we can learn and remember great teacher also he is

[22:52] <VCI-Bob> That's great, Gran!

[22:52] <VCI-Bob> I know we move kinda fast here sometimes

[22:52] <Gran-VHL> 6so you get the blue ribbion again tonight Bob

[22:52] <VCI-Bob> Thanks, Gran - you're the best! :)

[22:53] <VCI-Bob> Good night!

[22:53] <Gran-VHL> 6shalom and love to you all Gran boy you guys sure do bolster my ego it need rubbing a lot lately

[22:53] <VCI-Bob> :)

[22:53] <Gran-VHL> 6Bbbbbbbyeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

[22:53] <VCI-Bob> Bye :)

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