*** Log file opened: 2/15/01 8:01:19 PM

[20:01] <VCI-Bob> Hi there! :)

[20:01] <calledout-VHL> 10Shalom Bob :)

[20:01] <VCI-Bob> Shalom!

[20:02] <calledout-VHL> 10Hope you are well and Happy in the Lord this eve

[20:02] <VCI-Bob> Thanks - how are you?

[20:02] <calledout-VHL> 10Very well thank you

[20:03] <VCI-Bob> What party of the country do you live in?

[20:03] <VCI-Bob> part

[20:03] <VCI-Bob> not party :)

[20:03] <VCI-Bob> my fingers go faster than my brain sometimes :)

[20:03] <calledout-VHL> 10I live in the Southeastern part of Ohio

[20:03] <calledout-VHL> 10near Cincinnati

[20:04] <VCI-Bob> So, do you speak with an accent? :)

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[20:04] <VCI-Bob> Hey there Bez!

[20:04] <calledout-VHL> 10Yes,

[20:04] <Bezalel-VHL> Good evening/morning, Bob and Called!

[20:04] <calledout-VHL> 10Hi Bez, missed you Monday

[20:04] <Bezalel-VHL> 2Had to take my daughter to the airport.

[20:04] <VCI-Bob> Oh, she was visiting?

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[20:06] <calledout-VHL> 10Hi Running :)

[20:06] <Bezalel-VHL> 2No, she flew down to California to ride back with my son-in-law. He had an accident in his father's car, and was suffering from "whiplash" type injuries. She went down to help him get his truck back up here.

[20:06] <VCI-Bob> Hello there Running!

[20:06] <Runningdeer-VHL> Hello!!!!

[20:06] <Runningdeer-VHL> Hi

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[20:06] <VCI-Bob> Ouch!

[20:06] <Bezalel-VHL> 2Hi Deer.

[20:06] <Runningdeer-VHL> I'm back now

[20:06] <VCI-Bob> Hello Complete!

[20:06] <Runningdeer-VHL> Hi Bez

[20:06] <calledout-VHL> 10Hi Complete :)

[20:06] <Bezalel-VHL> 2He seems to be doing okay, just has a stiff neck now.

[20:06] <Runningdeer-VHL> My computer locked up and crashed the other day

[20:06] <complete777-VHL> shalom ..... and Good Evening

[20:06] <Bezalel-VHL> 2Hi Complete.

[20:07] <Runningdeer-VHL> Shalom to all!!!!!

[20:07] <VCI-Bob> That's a common malady - computer woes

[20:07] <Runningdeer-VHL> I am so glad to be back too

[20:07] <VCI-Bob> happens to me a lot also :)

[20:07] <complete777-VHL> Thank you for your welcomes

[20:07] <VCI-Bob> You're welcome :)

[20:07] <VCI-Bob> First time in chat, Complete?

[20:07] <complete777-VHL> This is my first time here

[20:07] <complete777-VHL> Yes

[20:07] <Runningdeer-VHL> Well I ran out of memory and didn't knoiw how to check my resources until just the other night

[20:07] <Bezalel-VHL> 2Welcome for the welcome, welcome. :-)

[20:07] <VCI-Bob> :)

[20:08] <VCI-Bob> We're glad you are here! Hope you find it interesting!

[20:08] <Runningdeer-VHL> Shalom comp[lete

[20:08] <complete777-VHL> I was to this was a good site to visit regarding prophecy

[20:08] <Bezalel-VHL> 2When you say you ran out of memory, do you mean disk space, Deer?

[20:08] <Runningdeer-VHL> Welcome

[20:08] <Runningdeer-VHL> No I mean ram

[20:08] <complete777-VHL> Thank you @ running deer

[20:08] <calledout-VHL> 10brb

[20:08] <Runningdeer-VHL> :-)

[20:09] <complete777-VHL> And that you will be discussing prophecy

[20:09] <Bezalel-VHL> 2Unusual for running out of RAM to dump your system.

[20:09] <VCI-Bob> Complete, it's an open discussion, so any topics of interest are welcome, though I usually have a few main Scriptures that we focus on

[20:09] <complete777-VHL> Thats okay ... I don't mind following

[20:09] <complete777-VHL> I gave my like to Christ 4 years ago

[20:10] <VCI-Bob> Wonderful!

[20:10] <complete777-VHL> and I am still learning

[20:10] <Runningdeer-VHL> Well that's what Gateway tech advised me to do

[20:10] <VCI-Bob> We are all still learning :)

[20:10] <complete777-VHL> Best thing ever happened to me

[20:10] <Bezalel-VHL> 2And Bob is a good teacher. :-)

[20:10] <VCI-Bob> Isn't that the truth!

[20:10] <Runningdeer-VHL> and tried everything that I knew how to keep from doing that

[20:10] <complete777-VHL> I was in Islam before

[20:10] <VCI-Bob> Thanks, Bez

[20:10] <Runningdeer-VHL> but unfortunately I had to reformat

[20:11] <Bezalel-VHL> 2Wow...that is a terrific change. Thank the Lord for showing you the path.

[20:11] <Runningdeer-VHL> Yes he is

[20:11] <VCI-Bob> Oh? Then we have a lot we can learn from YOU - we'd be interesting in hearing of your experience, if you are willing

[20:11] <complete777-VHL> Amen

[20:11] <calledout-VHL> 10Yes, complete :)

[20:11] <complete777-VHL> My life is a open testimony of Gods faithfulness

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[20:11] <Bezalel-VHL> 2:-)

[20:11] <VCI-Bob> I think it's fascinating to hear that different paths that God's leads us to know Him

[20:12] <VCI-Bob> Welcome, Bigs

[20:12] <complete777-VHL> Amen

[20:12] <calledout-VHL> 10Hii Bigs

[20:12] <bigs39-VHL> hello

[20:12] <Runningdeer-VHL> :-)

[20:12] <Runningdeer-VHL> Yes complete! I'm interested in hearing myself!

[20:12] <VCI-Bob> What made you convinced that Jesus is the way, Complete?

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[20:13] <complete777-VHL> I feel like I can empathise with Jospeh and moses sent to other houses to observe the untruths in these house and then being brough out of it .... with BLESSINGS

[20:13] <VCI-Bob> Hi Dex! Great to see you!

[20:13] <Dex-VHL> 2Hi all.

[20:13] <complete777-VHL> The Holy Spirit @ Bob

[20:13] <calledout-VHL> 10Hey Dex :)

[20:13] <Bezalel-VHL> 2Hi Dex.

[20:13] <Runningdeer-VHL> Hi Dex!!

[20:13] <Runningdeer-VHL> Shalom!!!!!!!!!

[20:13] <Dex-VHL> 2ooops need a new color.

[20:14] <complete777-VHL> Shalom Dex

[20:14] <VCI-Bob> Thats very interesting, Complete - for God uses our background experiences, doesn't He?

[20:14] <Dex-VHL> 2<OlivHi Running

[20:14] <complete777-VHL> Yes God does ..... He is a GOD with a purpose

[20:14] <Runningdeer-VHL> How are you doing Dex

[20:14] <Dex-VHL> 77Hi Running

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[20:14] <Dex-VHL> 7Very,very tired.

[20:15] <VCI-Bob> Thinking of Moses and Joseph, the many years that they spent apparently languishing before God brought them into the place for His larger purpose

[20:15] <Runningdeer-VHL> My computer locked up and crashed the other day and I had to reformat my pc

[20:15] <complete777-VHL> Amen

[20:15] <VCI-Bob> Well, Dex, hopefully you will be invigorated here :)

[20:15] <Dex-VHL> 7I've missed yall.

[20:15] <complete777-VHL> And look at the two contrasts

[20:15] <Runningdeer-VHL> I had to uninstall my windows

[20:15] <Dex-VHL> 7I'm counting on it

[20:15] <VCI-Bob> And we missed you, Dex! I was wondering where you'd been :)

[20:15] <Runningdeer-VHL> and then rein stall

[20:16] <Runningdeer-VHL> Oh you were gone too?

[20:16] <complete777-VHL> Joseph was sold into poverty ..... in the sense of being thrown into Jail .... but look what God restored to him

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[20:16] <Runningdeer-VHL> Yes amen complete

[20:16] <Dex-VHL> 7Between revival at church, a new job and 3 sick kids i've been very busy for the last week

[20:16] <Runningdeer-VHL> I can imagine

[20:16] <VCI-Bob> Yes, and I would suppose the fact that Joseph never lost hope but was confident that God would bring him out is critical to his "success"

[20:16] <calledout-VHL> 10that's enough to make you tired Dex!!

[20:17] <complete777-VHL> The Moses brought up as a prince ... with materialistic riches..... then he was humbled from all these things and became a shepard huh

[20:17] <VCI-Bob> even in the midst of a bleak situation

[20:17] <VCI-Bob> Yeah

[20:17] <Dex-VHL> 7so shoooooooow me the scriptures.

[20:17] <complete777-VHL> yet he was Richley blessed

[20:17] <Bezalel-VHL> 2Pushy, pushy, Dex.

[20:17] <VCI-Bob> I was thinking about that the other day, with Moses..... did you know.....

[20:17] <Bezalel-VHL> 2:-)

[20:17] <Dex-VHL> 7:-)

[20:17] <complete777-VHL> Yes I was thinking about that this week

[20:17] <Runningdeer-VHL> cool!!!!!!!

[20:17] <complete777-VHL> looking at the contrasts

[20:18] <VCI-Bob> that when he killed that Egyptian, at that point Moses knew that he was supposed to be the deliverer?

[20:18] <VCI-Bob> even before the 40 years in Midian

[20:18] <complete777-VHL> saying the little we have is Mighty comapred to them that have more than enough

[20:18] <VCI-Bob> But his people rejected him as the deliverer at that point

[20:18] <Runningdeer-VHL> Yes he did

[20:18] <Runningdeer-VHL> they did

[20:19] <VCI-Bob> Which, of course, is a parallel to the Messiah Jesus - the first time around, He also was rejected as the Deliverer

[20:19] <complete777-VHL> Yes they rejected much

[20:19] <complete777-VHL> Amne

[20:19] <complete777-VHL> Amen

[20:19] <VCI-Bob> And Stephen hints at that in his fabulous "sermon" that cost him his life

[20:19] <Bezalel-VHL> 2And that included his own brother and sister.

[20:20] <VCI-Bob> OK Dex, said, "Show me the Scriptures" :) so.....

[20:20] <complete777-VHL> And yet the person whom watched over the coats of those stoning stephen would be used to spread the gospel

[20:20] <VCI-Bob> Let's start with 2 verses in Isaiah 30 that struck me this week

[20:20] <VCI-Bob> Yes, Complete! Isn't it great how God works!

[20:21] <VCI-Bob> The context of these two verses is....

[20:21] <complete777-VHL> Yes .. God perfected the works ... before they were even revealed

[20:21] <VCI-Bob> Isaiah rebuking Israel for their refusal to trust, and the horrid results, but...

[20:21] <VCI-Bob> these verses are a wonderful contrast

[20:22] <VCI-Bob> Yet the LORD longs to be gracious to you; he rises to show you compassion. For the LORD is a God of justice. Blessed are all who wait for him! (Isaiah 30:18 NIV)

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[20:22] <VCI-Bob> Even after their stubbornness and lack of faith, God "longs" to be gracious

[20:22] <VCI-Bob> How many of us can relate to that!!!

[20:22] <Runningdeer-VHL> That's a very good verse

[20:22] <Bezalel-VHL> 2I have MY hand up!

[20:22] <VCI-Bob> And notice, it's GOD who takes the initiative!

[20:23] <complete777-VHL> I can relate to that

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[20:23] <VCI-Bob> He "rises up" to show His compassion

[20:23] <Runningdeer-VHL> \o/

[20:23] <VCI-Bob> and, in the larger picture, these are "end time" promises to Israel, as we will see in the next verses

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[20:24] <complete777-VHL> Bob i believe that God loves many of the churches that are not in His will ..... and will correct them because of His LOVE that they should not perish ...

[20:24] <VCI-Bob> Think of all the weeping in Israel in the last few months, especially today.... did you see the pictures of those eight young people kikked?

[20:24] <VCI-Bob> Complete, His compassion is beyond our understanding

[20:24] <Runningdeer-VHL> Amen complete

[20:24] <VCI-Bob> O people of Zion, who live in Jerusalem, you will weep no more. How gracious he will be when you cry for help! As soon as he hears, he will answer you. (Isaiah 30:19 NIV)

[20:24] <VCI-Bob> "YOU WILL WEEP NO MORE"

[20:25] <Runningdeer-VHL> Amen

[20:25] <VCI-Bob> The "cry for help" is the driving force behind everything happening today in Israel

[20:25] <Bezalel-VHL> 2and "When you cry for help!"

[20:25] <VCI-Bob> God will hear them when they finally turn their attention to Him!

[20:25] <VCI-Bob> And, the next verse is simply incredible

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[20:26] <VCI-Bob> Although the Lord has given you bread of privation and water of oppression, He, your Teacher will no longer hide Himself, but your eyes will behold your Teacher. (Isaiah 30:20 NASB)

[20:26] <VCI-Bob> This is talking of Jesus - the Teacher

[20:26] <VCI-Bob> who has been largely "hidden" from Israel

[20:26] <VCI-Bob> but soon, will not be

[20:27] <Runningdeer-VHL> Amen Bob

[20:27] <VCI-Bob> Looks like we are losing people left and right, huh

[20:27] <Runningdeer-VHL> That's for sure!!!!

[20:27] <Bezalel-VHL> 2`And afterward, I will pour out my Spirit on all people. Your sons and daughters will prophesy, your old men will dream dreams, your young men will see visions. (NIV Joel 2:28)

[20:27] <Runningdeer-VHL> Amen!!!!!!!!!

[20:27] <Bezalel-VHL> 2Talk City strikes again.

[20:28] <VCI-Bob> Right, Bez! Though that started at Pentecost, the full realization of it is yet to come

[20:28] <Runningdeer-VHL> Yes

[20:28] <Runningdeer-VHL> That's what Joel prophesied

[20:28] <Bezalel-VHL> 2You know how I am when I find a verse I like, Bob. I run it into the ground. :-)

[20:28] <Runningdeer-VHL> lol

[20:29] <VCI-Bob> Nothing wrong with that :)

[20:29] <Runningdeer-VHL> No there isn't

[20:29] <Bezalel-VHL> 2I like to think that verse from Joel shows there will be a great annointing, soon.

[20:29] <VCI-Bob> I think it's so wonderful that Isaiah spoke of the day when Jesus will no longer be hidden from Israel

[20:29] <VCI-Bob> Yes, Bez

[20:30] <Bezalel-VHL> 2The Teacher will no longer be hidden. Nice turn of phrase.

[20:30] <Runningdeer-VHL> Yes it is wonderful that he will be revealed

[20:30] <VCI-Bob> Let's back up, and see where it says that God would hide His face from them....

[20:30] <VCI-Bob> On that day I will become angry with them and forsake them; I will hide my face from them, and they will be destroyed. Many disasters and difficulties will come upon them, and on that day they will ask, 'Have not these disasters come upon us because our God is not with us?' (Deuteronomy 31:17 NIV)

[20:30] <VCI-Bob> And I will certainly hide my face on that day because of all their wickedness in turning to other gods. (Deuteronomy 31:18 NIV)

[20:31] <VCI-Bob> You deserted the Rock, who fathered you; you forgot the God who gave you birth. (Deuteronomy 32:18 NIV)

[20:31] <VCI-Bob> The LORD saw this and rejected them because he was angered by his sons and daughters. (Deuteronomy 32:19 NIV)

[20:31] <VCI-Bob> "I will hide my face from them," he said, "and see what their end will be; for they are a perverse generation, children who are unfaithful. (Deuteronomy 32:20 NIV)

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[20:32] <Bezalel-VHL> 2Hi Michael

[20:32] <VCI-Bob> Welcome, Michael!

[20:32] <Runningdeer-VHL> If it applied back then it applys today too

[20:32] <michaelm6-VHL> 4hi all

[20:32] <VCI-Bob> And here, they ask "why"?

[20:33] <VCI-Bob> And appeal to his incredible grace:

[20:33] <Runningdeer-VHL> !Hi Michael

[20:33] <VCI-Bob> Awake, O Lord! Why do you sleep? Rouse yourself! Do not reject us forever. (Psalms 44:23 NIV)

[20:33] <VCI-Bob> Why do you hide your face and forget our misery and oppression? (Psalms 44:24 NIV)

[20:33] <VCI-Bob> We are brought down to the dust; our bodies cling to the ground. (Psalms 44:25 NIV)

[20:33] <VCI-Bob> Rise up and help us; redeem us because of your unfailing love. (Psalms 44:26 NIV)

[20:33] <VCI-Bob> His "unfailing love"

[20:33] <Bezalel-VHL> 2But we/they have to ask for His Love.

[20:33] <Bezalel-VHL> 2and recognize His glory.

[20:34] <VCI-Bob> Right - and they will - as we saw in Isaiah 30

[20:34] <VCI-Bob> "For a brief moment I abandoned you, but with deep compassion I will bring you back. (Isaiah 54:7 NIV)

[20:34] <VCI-Bob> In a surge of anger I hid my face from you for a moment, but with everlasting kindness I will have compassion on you," says the LORD your Redeemer. (Isaiah 54:8 NIV)

[20:34] <Bezalel-VHL> 2The prophets sure did emphasize the punishment and restoration cycle.

[20:34] <VCI-Bob> Yeah, over and over

[20:35] <VCI-Bob> And here, a plea for mercy:

[20:35] <VCI-Bob> No one calls on your name or strives to lay hold of you; for you have hidden your face from us and made us waste away because of our sins. (Isaiah 64:7 NIV)

[20:35] <VCI-Bob> Yet, O LORD, you are our Father. We are the clay, you are the potter; we are all the work of your hand. (Isaiah 64:8 NIV)

[20:35] <VCI-Bob> Do not be angry beyond measure, O LORD; do not remember our sins forever. Oh, look upon us, we pray, for we are all your people. (Isaiah 64:9 NIV)

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[20:35] <Runningdeer-VHL> Yes

[20:35] <VCI-Bob> Welcome back, complete! Did you get tossed out?

[20:35] <complete777-VHL> Yes i did

[20:36] <Runningdeer-VHL> wb complete

[20:36] <VCI-Bob> Sorry about that - happens way too much

[20:36] <complete777-VHL> Thank you

[20:36] <Runningdeer-VHL> I lost my Theophilus pc biblle

[20:36] <VCI-Bob> And here, in Ezekiel 39, is a very crucial promise:

[20:36] <Runningdeer-VHL> :-(

[20:37] <VCI-Bob> It's a recap of the battle just described there where God delivers them, giving His larger purposes for it all:

[20:37] <Bezalel-VHL> 2I used the online bible at www.biblegateway.com Deer.

[20:37] <VCI-Bob> "I will display my glory among the nations, and all the nations will see the punishment I inflict and the hand I lay upon them. (Ezekiel 39:21 NIV)

[20:37] <VCI-Bob> From that day forward the house of Israel will know that I am the LORD their God. (Ezekiel 39:22 NIV)

[20:37] <VCI-Bob> And the nations will know that the people of Israel went into exile for their sin, because they were unfaithful to me. So I hid my face from them and handed them over to their enemies, and they all fell by the sword. (Ezekiel 39:23 NIV)

[20:37] <VCI-Bob> I dealt with them according to their uncleanness and their offenses, and I hid my face from them. (Ezekiel 39:24 NIV)

[20:37] <VCI-Bob> "Therefore this is what the Sovereign LORD says: I will now bring Jacob back from captivity and will have compassion on all the people of Israel, and I will be zealous for my holy name. (Ezekiel 39:25 NIV)

[20:38] <Runningdeer-VHL> ut oh my window is messing up

[20:38] <VCI-Bob> As you said, Bez, once again, the cycle of discipline, and restoration

[20:38] <Bezalel-VHL> 2For His Holy name.

[20:38] <VCI-Bob> but all for His glory!

[20:38] <Dex-VHL> 7AAAAAAAmen

[20:39] <Bezalel-VHL> 2Hallelujah!!!!

[20:39] <VCI-Bob> They will forget their shame and all the unfaithfulness they showed toward me when they lived in safety in their land with no one to make them afraid. (Ezekiel 39:26 NIV)

[20:39] <VCI-Bob> When I have brought them back from the nations and have gathered them from the countries of their enemies, I will show myself holy through them in the sight of many nations. (Ezekiel 39:27 NIV)

[20:39] <VCI-Bob> Then they will know that I am the LORD their God, for though I sent them into exile among the nations, I will gather them to their own land, not leaving any behind. (Ezekiel 39:28 NIV)

[20:39] <VCI-Bob> I will no longer hide my face from them, for I will pour out my Spirit on the house of Israel, declares the Sovereign LORD." (Ezekiel 39:29 NIV)

[20:39] <Runningdeer-VHL> AMEN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

[20:39] <VCI-Bob> See how the gathering to the land is a part of the process of God bringing glory to Himself

[20:39] <Runningdeer-VHL> glory!

[20:39] <Bezalel-VHL> 2Again, the pouring out of the Holy Spirit.

[20:39] <Runningdeer-VHL> Yes amen

[20:40] <Runningdeer-VHL> I think my iwndow is ok now

[20:40] <VCI-Bob> "not leaving any behind" - which is why I believe that aliyah is far from complete

[20:40] <VCI-Bob> Yes, Bez, we see both the physical restoration, then the spiritual

[20:40] <Dex-VHL> 7Bones then the breath

[20:40] <VCI-Bob> First the physical, coming back to the land, then the spiritual "I will not longer hide my face from them"

[20:41] <VCI-Bob> Right, Dex!

[20:41] <complete777-VHL> aliyah ???

[20:41] <VCI-Bob> And to think, that we are witnesses of all this, unfolding before our eyes

[20:41] <Bezalel-VHL> 2no weapon forged against you will prevail, and you will refute every tongue that accuses you. This is the heritage of the servants of the LORD, and this is their vindication from me," declares the LORD. (NIV Isa 54:17)

[20:42] <VCI-Bob> Aliyah is the Hebrew turn for the regathering of the Jewish people back to the land of Israel

[20:42] <VCI-Bob> term

[20:42] <VCI-Bob> not turn :)

[20:42] <Runningdeer-VHL> Ok

[20:42] <Dex-VHL> 7:-)

[20:43] <complete777-VHL> thanks

[20:43] <Runningdeer-VHL> Pronounced all-yah?

[20:43] <VCI-Bob> all eee yah

[20:43] <Runningdeer-VHL> oh ok

[20:43] <complete777-VHL> thanks

[20:44] <Dex-VHL> 7as in "are all eee yah saved?"

[20:44] <VCI-Bob> That's a great verse, Bez - ultimate vindication from the Lord for all who serve Him!

[20:44] <VCI-Bob> LOL Dex

[20:44] <complete777-VHL> May I ask if you are messanic jews ?

[20:44] <Runningdeer-VHL> lol@Dex

[20:44] <Bezalel-VHL> 2And, refute all the tongues.

[20:44] <VCI-Bob> I'm not Jewish

[20:44] <complete777-VHL> okay

[20:45] <VCI-Bob> But I believe in the Jewish Messiah :)

[20:45] <complete777-VHL> Me to

[20:45] <Bezalel-VHL> 2Amen, Brother Bob.

[20:45] <Dex-VHL> 7Not I Complete. I'm just plain old saved through Jesus

[20:45] <Runningdeer-VHL> I'm not Jewish or native american either!!!!

[20:45] <Bezalel-VHL> 2I was raised as a Mormon, is that close enought?

[20:46] <Bezalel-VHL> 2enough

[20:46] <complete777-VHL> You have a good understanding of Hebrew

[20:46] <Runningdeer-VHL> I was raised a baptist all my life

[20:46] <Dex-VHL> 7Close enough for Jesus Amen

[20:46] <complete777-VHL> Amen

[20:46] <VCI-Bob> Raised a baptist all your life huh? That's a lot of raising up :)

[20:46] <Runningdeer-VHL> Amen Bez

[20:47] <Runningdeer-VHL> Yes

[20:47] <complete777-VHL> well we know that there is neither Jew or Gentle ..

[20:47] <Runningdeer-VHL> A LOT!!!

[20:47] <VCI-Bob> Right - the boundary has been torn down

[20:47] <complete777-VHL> Amen

[20:47] <Bezalel-VHL> 2That graft is going to be mighty strong.

[20:47] <Dex-VHL> 7Bob. I am really feeling much better. THIS IS REINVIGORATING!!!!!

[20:48] <Bezalel-VHL> 2I'll second that, Dex.!

[20:48] <Runningdeer-VHL> That's right through the blood of Jesus

[20:48] <VCI-Bob> I'm very glad to hear that, Dex! That's what we are here for!

[20:48] <complete777-VHL> May i ask a question

[20:48] <VCI-Bob> Certainly!

[20:48] <complete777-VHL> Is the rapture scriptral ?

[20:48] <Dex-VHL> 7Man I'm about ready to dance. Does this Keyboard detach and still work?

[20:49] <Runningdeer-VHL> lol

[20:49] <Bezalel-VHL> 2Is it wireless, Dex?

[20:49] <VCI-Bob> Yes, if we define the rapture in this way, it will certainly happen:

[20:49] <VCI-Bob> For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. (1 Thessalonians 4:16 NIV)

[20:49] <VCI-Bob> After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever. (1 Thessalonians 4:17 NIV)

[20:49] <Dex-VHL> 7It will be if i unplug it

[20:49] <Runningdeer-VHL> A wireless keyboard? hmmm!!!!!!!!!!!

[20:49] <VCI-Bob> This is the rapture, and it will happen - the big question that is debated, is when will it happen?

[20:49] <Runningdeer-VHL> lol

[20:49] <Bezalel-VHL> 2They have them Deer. Infra-red.

[20:50] <VCI-Bob> Before, in the middle of, or at the end of the period called the "tribulation - that is the debate

[20:50] <Bezalel-VHL> 2And we all know the rapture will occur Post-Tribulation.

[20:50] <complete777-VHL> Is this after what Jesus says in Matthew 24 : 29 - 31

[20:50] <VCI-Bob> "Immediately after the distress of those days "'the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from the sky, and the heavenly bodies will be shaken.' (Matthew 24:29 NIV)

[20:50] <VCI-Bob> "At that time the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and all the nations of the earth will mourn. They will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky, with power and great glory. (Matthew 24:30 NIV)

[20:50] <VCI-Bob> And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other. (Matthew 24:31 NIV)

[20:50] <Runningdeer-VHL> They do?

[20:50] <Dex-VHL> 7?????? Bez.

[20:51] <VCI-Bob> Complete, my opinion is that this is talking about the same event as 1 Thess 4

[20:51] <VCI-Bob> but those who believe the rapture is pre-trib see it as two different events

[20:51] <complete777-VHL> So this is after the tribulation

[20:51] <VCI-Bob> Yes, "the distress"

[20:51] <complete777-VHL> I don't see a pre-tribulation rapture

[20:51] <VCI-Bob> Another translation:

[20:51] <VCI-Bob> "But immediately after the tribulation of those days THE SUN WILL BE DARKENED, AND THE MOON WILL NOT GIVE ITS LIGHT, AND THE STARS WILL FALL from the sky, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken, (Matthew 24:29 NASB)

[20:52] <VCI-Bob> I don't either, complete

[20:53] <VCI-Bob> For one thing, there are so many similarities - the call, the trumpet, the angels, the gathering - all in both 1 thess 4 and matthew 24

[20:53] <VCI-Bob> and Matthew explicitly gives the timing of it - "after the tribulation"

[20:53] <complete777-VHL> Bob compare Matthew 24 : 29 and Rev 6 : 12 - 13

[20:53] <Bezalel-VHL> 2Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed--(1 Cor 15:51)

[20:54] <VCI-Bob> I watched as he opened the sixth seal. There was a great earthquake. The sun turned black like sackcloth made of goat hair, the whole moon turned blood red, (Revelation 6:12 NIV)

[20:54] <VCI-Bob> and the stars in the sky fell to earth, as late figs drop from a fig tree when shaken by a strong wind. (Revelation 6:13 NIV)

[20:54] <VCI-Bob> The sky receded like a scroll, rolling up, and every mountain and island was removed from its place. (Revelation 6:14 NIV)

[20:54] <Bezalel-VHL> 2in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. (1 Cor 15:52)

[20:55] <VCI-Bob> Yes - the resurrection will happen at that time, of the rapture, when Jesus returns - but Revelation tells us the "first resurrection" happens AFTER the tribulation

[20:55] <michaelm6-VHL> 4but what about the fact that no one knows the time of the return, to me if it is at the end of the 7 year tribulation, then we would know the time of the end

[20:55] <Bezalel-VHL> 2Post-Trib....

[20:55] <VCI-Bob> Good question Michael :)

[20:55] <Bezalel-VHL> 2We can see the season, though.

[20:55] <VCI-Bob> for you know very well that the day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night. (1 Thessalonians 5:2 NIV)

[20:55] <VCI-Bob> While people are saying, "Peace and safety," destruction will come on them suddenly, as labor pains on a pregnant woman, and they will not escape. (1 Thessalonians 5:3 NIV)

[20:55] <VCI-Bob> But you, brothers, are not in darkness so that this day should surprise you like a thief. (1 Thessalonians 5:4 NIV)

[20:56] <complete777-VHL> Bob you seen what was mentioned in mathew 29 ..... was also mentioned in Rev 6 - 12 - 13

[20:56] <VCI-Bob> It will come "like a thief" to those who are not looking - but Paul says, not for us

[20:56] <complete777-VHL> I mean matthew 24 : 29

[20:56] <Bezalel-VHL> 2Amen, hallelujah!

[20:56] <VCI-Bob> Yes, that's a good point, Complete

[20:57] <Bezalel-VHL> 2Isaiah also talks about the signs of the wrath.

[20:57] <VCI-Bob> Michael, looking at another passage that you referred to:

[20:57] <complete777-VHL> Need to be like the five wise

[20:57] <VCI-Bob> Even so, when you see these things happening, you know that it is near, right at the door. (Mark 13:29 NIV)

[20:57] <VCI-Bob> I tell you the truth, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened. (Mark 13:30 NIV)

[20:57] <VCI-Bob> Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away. (Mark 13:31 NIV)

[20:57] <VCI-Bob> "No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father. (Mark 13:32 NIV)

[20:58] <VCI-Bob> Jesus said we will not know the "day or hour" but we will know it is "near"

[20:58] <michaelm6-VHL> 4thats the one

[20:58] <complete777-VHL> Amen

[20:58] <VCI-Bob> Because we will see "these things" happening

[20:58] <VCI-Bob> And what are "these things" that He is talking about?

[20:58] <VCI-Bob> He had just finishing describing what would happen in the tribulation

[20:59] <VCI-Bob> saying when YOU see "these things" - you know it's near

[20:59] <Bezalel-VHL> 2As a sidelight to this discussion, Bob. Sign Ministeries is hold a Parousia Conference in Seatle, during April.

[20:59] <Bezalel-VHL> 2holding not hold

[20:59] <VCI-Bob> Thanks for the tip, Bez

[20:59] <Bezalel-VHL> 2I believe I'm going to go....

[21:00] <VCI-Bob> OK Bez - always great to have you here :)

[21:00] <complete777-VHL> Bob so can we look to events happening in Isreal as possible signs ?

[21:00] <VCI-Bob> Oh yes indeed, Complete!

[21:00] <Bezalel-VHL> 2No, I mean I'm going to the Parousia Conference.

[21:00] <VCI-Bob> Oh - LOL

[21:00] <Bezalel-VHL> 2Of course, if you want me to leave. :-)

[21:00] <complete777-VHL> Okay can you guys shed some light

[21:00] <VCI-Bob> I heard them in Orlando last year - well worth the time

[21:01] <VCI-Bob> Yes, events in Israel are the greatest barometer for understanding end-times

[21:01] <Runningdeer-VHL> Bye Bezz

[21:01] <Runningdeer-VHL> God bless you

[21:01] <VCI-Bob> I'm just finishing an article about my understanding of the impending war

[21:01] <Runningdeer-VHL> !:-)

[21:02] <Runningdeer-VHL> Oh

[21:02] <VCI-Bob> LOL Bez, everyone is trying to toss you :)

[21:02] <Dex-VHL> 7God Bless you Bez.

[21:02] <Bezalel-VHL> 2Will you post on your site, Bob?

[21:02] <VCI-Bob> Yes

[21:02] <Dex-VHL> 7ooooops. sorry bez

[21:02] <Bezalel-VHL> 2:-), It's my sparkling personality.

[21:02] <complete777-VHL> Can you explain why there is a division between Jew and muslim regarding the place that the new priminster of isreal went to visit ... that escalated the violence in Isreal today

[21:03] <complete777-VHL> God Bless bez

[21:03] <VCI-Bob> Excellent question, Complete - the site of the Temple Mount, or what the Muslims call the "Noble Sanctuary"

[21:03] <VCI-Bob> will increasingly become a focal point... because...

[21:04] <complete777-VHL> This is very important

[21:04] <VCI-Bob> it's referred to numerous times in the Bible as "the place God has chosen for His Name to dwell forever"

[21:04] <Bezalel-VHL> 2It will probably be the catalyst for the near-term war.

[21:04] <VCI-Bob> It's His special place, and He's very jealous for it

[21:05] <VCI-Bob> Here is an example of His sentiments:

[21:05] <Runningdeer-VHL> Yes I believe he is

[21:05] <VCI-Bob> This is what the LORD Almighty says: "I am very jealous for Zion; I am burning with jealousy for her." (Zechariah 8:2 NIV)

[21:05] <VCI-Bob> This is what the LORD says: "I will return to Zion and dwell in Jerusalem. Then Jerusalem will be called the City of Truth, and the mountain of the LORD Almighty will be called the Holy Mountain." (Zechariah 8:3 NIV)

[21:05] <Dex-VHL> 7I heard a pastor on the radio the other day and he said something that i had never thought of until then. He said that when God is given prophecy to the Jews he often gives numbers but to the Church he seldom gives numbers. the more i thought about it the more i agree with him

[21:05] <VCI-Bob> Yes, Dex? Elaborate, please

[21:06] <VCI-Bob> So, complete, the Temple Mount will be a place of contention, as Obadiah foresaw:

[21:06] <VCI-Bob> "The day of the LORD is near for all nations. As you have done, it will be done to you; your deeds will return upon your own head. (Obadiah 1:15 NIV)

[21:06] <VCI-Bob> Just as you drank on my holy hill, so all the nations will drink continually; they will drink and drink and be as if they had never been. (Obadiah 1:16 NIV)

[21:06] <VCI-Bob> But on Mount Zion will be deliverance; it will be holy, and the house of Jacob will possess its inheritance. (Obadiah 1:17 NIV)

[21:06] <VCI-Bob> The house of Jacob will be a fire and the house of Joseph a flame; the house of Esau will be stubble, and they will set it on fire and consume it. There will be no survivors from the house of Esau." The LORD has spoken. (Obadiah 1:18 NIV)

[21:06] <Dex-VHL> 7Well many of the old testament phophets were given prophecies dealing with the future of the Jews. i.e the 70 weeks of Daniel.

[21:07] <VCI-Bob> In v 16, God calls it "my holy hill"

[21:07] <Dex-VHL> 7but I can't think of any time frames given to the Church by Christ.

[21:07] <VCI-Bob> And in that verse, he describes those who are there without His permission

[21:08] <VCI-Bob> Yes, Dex, you're right, the prophets did give some specific timeframes

[21:08] <Dex-VHL> 7and even though Revelation is in the New Testament John was the apostle to the Jews and Revelation is mostly speaking of Israels' fate.

[21:08] <VCI-Bob> So, Complete, ultimately, God's Temple will dwell there on His holy hill, and the Messiah Jesus will rule the world from there

[21:09] <Runningdeer-VHL> That's interesting

[21:09] <complete777-VHL> So where will the anti-christ defile

[21:09] <VCI-Bob> Read Psalm 2 sometime, which describes the contention between the worlds powers and the Son of God

[21:09] <VCI-Bob> The antichrist will defile the rebuilt temple in Jerusalem

[21:10] <complete777-VHL> Yes i just finished read psalms 2 about 15 min ago

[21:10] <Runningdeer-VHL> Yes that's right

[21:10] <VCI-Bob> Don't let anyone deceive you in any way, for that day will not come until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the man doomed to destruction. (2 Thessalonians 2:3 NIV)

[21:10] <VCI-Bob> He will oppose and will exalt himself over everything that is called God or is worshiped, so that he sets himself up in God's temple, proclaiming himself to be God. (2 Thessalonians 2:4 NIV)

[21:10] <VCI-Bob> Psalm 2 is one of my favorites

[21:11] <complete777-VHL> The new temple is where

[21:11] <complete777-VHL> sorry for asking such questions

[21:12] <Dex-VHL> 7That's how we learn Complete

[21:12] <VCI-Bob> We believe, Complete, that it will be rebuilt where it was before - the Temple Mount

[21:12] <complete777-VHL> I really would like to learn

[21:12] <VCI-Bob> where the Dome of the Rock now stands

[21:13] <VCI-Bob> Some think it may be rebuilt beside it, I doubt that very much

[21:13] <Bezalel-VHL> 2The site that Sharon will not surrender.

[21:13] <Bezalel-VHL> 2And Barak tried to use as trade bait for peace.

[21:13] <complete777-VHL> Is this the same temple mount - city of truth we just spoke about ?

[21:13] <VCI-Bob> That, I believe, is the real reason why Barak lost so overwhelmingly - because he was willing to relinquish God's special place

[21:14] <Bezalel-VHL> 2I imagine the Lord was mightily peeved about that!

[21:14] <VCI-Bob> Yes - Jerusalem will be called the "City of Truth" in the days of the Messiah

[21:14] <VCI-Bob> Yes, indeed, Bez

[21:15] <complete777-VHL> The Lord has his hand aginst them who try to false and impose their own will

[21:15] <VCI-Bob> Right - emphatically

[21:15] <Bezalel-VHL> 2Amen.

[21:15] <complete777-VHL> yet the just forefill the word of God

[21:15] <Runningdeer-VHL> God is a jealous God!

[21:15] <complete777-VHL> I love God so much

[21:15] <VCI-Bob> Yes, because His will will prevail!

[21:16] <complete777-VHL> Amne

[21:16] <complete777-VHL> amen

[21:16] <Bezalel-VHL> 2Yes, Complete. The more the world denies God, the more truth is put behind the prophesies.

[21:16] <Runningdeer-VHL> His will always prevails in the end

[21:16] <VCI-Bob> Yes, and He laughs at those who dare oppose Him!

[21:16] <complete777-VHL> I cry sometimes

[21:16] <VCI-Bob> "Let us break their chains," they say, "and throw off their fetters." (Psalms 2:3 NIV)

[21:16] <VCI-Bob> The One enthroned in heaven laughs; the Lord scoffs at them. (Psalms 2:4 NIV)

[21:16] <VCI-Bob> Then he rebukes them in his anger and terrifies them in his wrath, saying, (Psalms 2:5 NIV)

[21:16] <VCI-Bob> "I have installed my King on Zion, my holy hill." (Psalms 2:6 NIV)

[21:17] <complete777-VHL> because they see not

[21:17] <complete777-VHL> and hear not

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[21:17] <Bezalel-VHL> 2Also, Complete, keep your tool kit ready for when we're called to help rebuild the temple.

[21:17] <VCI-Bob> It's a done deal - King Jesus will rule from Zion!

[21:17] <VCI-Bob> But all of the demonic powers HATE that idea, and fight against it with all their might

[21:17] <complete777-VHL> yet in their hearts they seek to defile what God has ordained and this isa vain attempt by man

[21:18] <Runningdeer-VHL> Yes

[21:18] <VCI-Bob> which is why, from a spiritual level, we see such conflict over that place

[21:18] <complete777-VHL> Yes I do ......

[21:18] <Runningdeer-VHL> Yes it is complete! A very vain attempt

[21:18] <VCI-Bob> Yes, a vain, futile attempt at rebellion, which will be overthrown by the glory of Jesus' appearing!

[21:18] <complete777-VHL> Amen

[21:19] <complete777-VHL> I don't know why i cry though

[21:19] <complete777-VHL> I weep for isreal

[21:19] <Bezalel-VHL> 2And we are being called to witness...

[21:19] <VCI-Bob> Yes

[21:19] <Runningdeer-VHL> Because you have a heart for Isreael just like I do

[21:19] <Bezalel-VHL> 2We are becoming the Watchmen on the Towers.

[21:19] <Runningdeer-VHL> Yes

[21:19] <VCI-Bob> Yes, God has put it in our hearts to intercede for Israel, with tears

[21:19] <complete777-VHL> I love Isreal a land that is in the hand of my Father

[21:20] <Runningdeer-VHL> I am a Jew by his divine nature and because I do, I can feel Israel's heartbeat also

[21:20] <complete777-VHL> Sometimes when I hear Hebrew it's as if i know how to speak it

[21:20] <complete777-VHL> something in side me just moves

[21:20] <VCI-Bob> "In those days, at that time," declares the LORD, "the people of Israel and the people of Judah together will go in tears to seek the LORD their God. (Jeremiah 50:4 NIV)

[21:20] <VCI-Bob> They will ask the way to Zion and turn their faces toward it. They will come and bind themselves to the LORD in an everlasting covenant that will not be forgotten. (Jeremiah 50:5 NIV)

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[21:20] <VCI-Bob> Welcome, Z!

[21:21] <VCI-Bob> That's a wonderful promise from the Lord

[21:21] <Z-VHL> hey bob, chatteers

[21:21] <Dex-VHL> 7Bob I know we have touched on this before but where do you see the U.S. in the tribulation. I either forsee us being destroyed before hand or on the wrong side of God. I have heard scripture bent and flexed to meet many peoples ideas but the truth as i see it, is that scripture is silent on our country.

[21:21] <Bezalel-VHL> 2Hi Z

[21:21] <complete777-VHL> Welcome Z

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[21:22] <VCI-Bob> Yes, Dex - all of the nations will join in the wholesale rebellion against God, and will give their allegiance and worship to the false savior - all whose names are not in the book of life

[21:22] <Runningdeer-VHL> Oh that is do goo Dex!!!!!!!

[21:22] <skip-VHL> 4hi

[21:22] <Runningdeer-VHL> good

[21:22] <complete777-VHL> Hello @ skip

[21:23] <Bezalel-VHL> 2Hi Skip

[21:23] <Runningdeer-VHL> Hi Skip

[21:23] <Runningdeer-VHL> How are you?

[21:23] <VCI-Bob> I don't see anything definitive in the Bible about the US, personally - perhaps there are some Scriptures that MAY speak of it, I'm not sure

[21:23] <complete777-VHL> This is when the open persecution of the church will be revealed

[21:24] <skip-VHL> 4good and you RD?

[21:24] <complete777-VHL> Who are the lost sheep of isreal ?

[21:24] <VCI-Bob> But here is what God says about the nations, at that time

[21:24] <VCI-Bob> Welcome, Skip!

[21:24] <VCI-Bob> Come near, you nations, and listen; pay attention, you peoples! Let the earth hear, and all that is in it, the world, and all that comes out of it! (Isaiah 34:1 NIV)

[21:24] <VCI-Bob> The LORD is angry with all nations; his wrath is upon all their armies. He will totally destroy them, he will give them over to slaughter. (Isaiah 34:2 NIV)

[21:24] <VCI-Bob> Their slain will be thrown out, their dead bodies will send up a stench; the mountains will be soaked with their blood. (Isaiah 34:3 NIV)

[21:24] <Runningdeer-VHL> I'm blessed in th ename of the Most High God

[21:24] <Z-VHL> there are scriptures which refer to an eagle

[21:24] <Dex-VHL> 7Hi Skip

[21:24] <VCI-Bob> All the stars of the heavens will be dissolved and the sky rolled up like a scroll; all the starry host will fall like withered leaves from the vine, like shriveled figs from the fig tree. (Isaiah 34:4 NIV)

[21:25] <VCI-Bob> Yes, there are, Z - some think that's the US

[21:25] <skip-VHL> 4was checking out more of your pics today and Bo sure is a great photographer

[21:25] <VCI-Bob> That last verse tells us the time frame of Isaiah 34

[21:25] <VCI-Bob> Thanks Skip - I'll tell her :)

[21:26] <Bezalel-VHL> 2Sounds like the Day of Wrath.

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[21:26] <VCI-Bob> Yes - the day of the Lord

[21:26] <skip-VHL> 4do you think the sky will literally be rolled up?

[21:26] <Rich-VHL> 7hello Bob and everyone

[21:26] <Bezalel-VHL> 2Hi Rich

[21:26] <complete777-VHL> Hello Rich

[21:26] <Rich-VHL> 7hey Bez

[21:26] <skip-VHL> 4hi RICH and EVERYONE

[21:26] <VCI-Bob> I will show wonders in the heavens and on the earth, blood and fire and billows of smoke. (Joel 2:30 NIV)

[21:26] <VCI-Bob> The sun will be turned to darkness and the moon to blood before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD. (Joel 2:31 NIV)

[21:26] <Runningdeer-VHL> Hi Rich

[21:26] <Rich-VHL> 7complete how are you

[21:27] <Runningdeer-VHL> God bless you!!!!!!

[21:27] <complete777-VHL> well i must go ...... I am in London and it's 2 : 23am

[21:27] <VCI-Bob> Yes, Skip, it will appear that way

[21:27] <Rich-VHL> 7skip hello

[21:27] <Runningdeer-VHL> :-)

[21:27] <skip-VHL> 4WOW

[21:27] <complete777-VHL> I am blessed @ rich

[21:27] <VCI-Bob> So glad you joined us complete! Come back again!

[21:27] <Bezalel-VHL> 2Wow, Complete....you are dedicated...

[21:27] <Rich-VHL> 7hi deer and God Bless you too

[21:27] <Runningdeer-VHL> By complete

[21:27] <skip-VHL> 4no wonder mens hearts will fail them

[21:27] <VCI-Bob> God bless you

[21:27] <Bezalel-VHL> 2Please come back, you're a wonderful addition.

[21:27] <Runningdeer-VHL> And may God bless you abundantly!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

[21:27] <Dex-VHL> 7Please visit again Complete

[21:27] <VCI-Bob> I watched as he opened the sixth seal. There was a great earthquake. The sun turned black like sackcloth made of goat hair, the whole moon turned blood red, (Revelation 6:12 NIV)

[21:27] <VCI-Bob> and the stars in the sky fell to earth, as late figs drop from a fig tree when shaken by a strong wind. (Revelation 6:13 NIV)

[21:27] <VCI-Bob> The sky receded like a scroll, rolling up, and every mountain and island was removed from its place. (Revelation 6:14 NIV)

[21:28] <Rich-VHL> 7by by complete

[21:28] <Dex-VHL> 7God Bless you.

[21:28] <Bezalel-VHL> 2Just like a night shade.....

[21:28] <Rich-VHL> 7good comparison Bez

[21:28] <VCI-Bob> Then the kings of the earth, the princes, the generals, the rich, the mighty, and every slave and every free man hid in caves and among the rocks of the mountains. (Revelation 6:15 NIV)

[21:28] <VCI-Bob> They called to the mountains and the rocks, "Fall on us and hide us from the face of him who sits on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb! (Revelation 6:16 NIV)

[21:28] <VCI-Bob> For the great day of their wrath has come, and who can stand?" (Revelation 6:17 NIV)

[21:29] <complete777-VHL> I am dedicated ......

[21:29] <VCI-Bob> Compare that to Isaiah 2:

[21:29] <Rich-VHL> 7I thought you left complete

[21:29] <VCI-Bob> Go into the rocks, hide in the ground from dread of the LORD and the splendor of his majesty! (Isaiah 2:10 NIV)

[21:29] <VCI-Bob> The eyes of the arrogant man will be humbled and the pride of men brought low; the LORD alone will be exalted in that day. (Isaiah 2:11 NIV)

[21:29] <VCI-Bob> The LORD Almighty has a day in store for all the proud and lofty, for all that is exalted (and they will be humbled), (Isaiah 2:12 NIV)

[21:29] <skip-VHL> 4ptl COMPLETE

[21:29] <VCI-Bob> The arrogance of man will be brought low and the pride of men humbled; the LORD alone will be exalted in that day, (Isaiah 2:17 NIV)

[21:29] <VCI-Bob> and the idols will totally disappear. (Isaiah 2:18 NIV)

[21:29] <VCI-Bob> Men will flee to caves in the rocks and to holes in the ground from dread of the LORD and the splendor of his majesty, when he rises to shake the earth. (Isaiah 2:19 NIV)

[21:29] <Rich-VHL> 7Amen Bob

[21:30] <Rich-VHL> 7they will flee from His love too Bob

[21:30] <VCI-Bob> Incredible words

[21:30] <skip-VHL> 4WILL THAT BE BEFORE OR AFTER THE 1000YEARS REIGHN?

[21:30] <Rich-VHL> 7some people just can't love another

[21:30] <VCI-Bob> Before

[21:31] <Bezalel-VHL> 2Stop trusting in man, who has but a breath in his nostrils. Of what account is he? (NIV Isa 2:20)

[21:31] <skip-VHL> 4it still sends chills down my spine

[21:31] <VCI-Bob> "but a breath"

[21:31] <Bezalel-VHL> 2Oops Isa 2:22

[21:31] <VCI-Bob> One breath away from eternity

[21:31] <Rich-VHL> 7it will be a Glorious sight to behold huh skip

[21:32] <skip-VHL> 4to say the least Rich

[21:33] <Bezalel-VHL> 2In a twinkling of an eye.

[21:33] <Rich-VHL> 7hello Z

[21:33] <Z-VHL> hey rich

[21:33] <VCI-Bob> Hi Rich!

[21:33] <Runningdeer-VHL> How are you Z?

[21:33] <skip-VHL> 4is that you LIZ?

[21:33] <Z-VHL> i'm good

[21:33] <Rich-VHL> 7haven't seen much of you on the forums lately Z

[21:33] <Z-VHL> u?

[21:33] <Runningdeer-VHL> Great!!!!

[21:34] <Z-VHL> i havent known what to post

[21:34] <Runningdeer-VHL> I'm blessed in Jesus name!!!!!!!!!!!!!:-)

[21:34] <VCI-Bob> Who appointed him over the earth? Who put him in charge of the whole world? (Job 34:13 NIV)

[21:34] <VCI-Bob> If it were his intention and he withdrew his spirit and breath, (Job 34:14 NIV)

[21:34] <VCI-Bob> all mankind would perish together and man would return to the dust. (Job 34:15 NIV)

[21:34] <Rich-VHL> 7just post Jesus and His love Z

[21:34] <complete777-VHL> Must go ....... May God continue you to Bless you in Jesus name

[21:34] <Z-VHL> all i see is war on the horizon and i figured everyone kneew that already

[21:34] <VCI-Bob> Good night, Complete!

[21:35] <complete777-VHL> and I thank god for you all

[21:35] <Bezalel-VHL> 2Good morning, Complete. Thanks for coming.

[21:35] <skip-VHL> 4Shalom777

[21:35] <complete777-VHL> Bob ... i have been encouraged

[21:35] <complete777-VHL> shalom skip

[21:35] <VCI-Bob> Wonderful!!!

[21:35] <Rich-VHL> 7thats why we need to pst Jesus Z

[21:35] <VCI-Bob> The grace of the Lord Jesus be with you

[21:35] <complete777-VHL> What days do you do this on

[21:35] <Z-VHL> yes, true

[21:35] <complete777-VHL> so i can visit again

[21:35] <VCI-Bob> Mondays, Tuesdays, and Thursdays

[21:36] <complete777-VHL> Okay ........ thanks

[21:36] <VCI-Bob> Stan Mondays, and Delta Tuesdays

[21:36] <complete777-VHL> Byeeeeeeee

[21:36] <Bezalel-VHL> 2Monday is politics, Tuesday Hearts for Israel and Thursday Prophesy.

[21:36] <Rich-VHL> 7see ya 777

[21:36] <Runningdeer-VHL> Bye now and God bless!!!!!!!!!!!!!!111

[21:37] <complete777-VHL> Is it always at 8:00pm

[21:37] <VCI-Bob> Yes

[21:37] <Bezalel-VHL> 2 8:00 PM Eastern Time (US)

[21:37] <complete777-VHL> okay

[21:37] complete777-VHL [~complete777-VHL@proxy16.talkcity.com] has quit IRC (complete777-VHL has left the room)

[21:37] <VCI-Bob> OK friends, now is your chance to share blessing, insights, questions, etc :)

[21:37] <Rich-VHL> 7Bob can you put up for some of 1st John about where he tells we know we are saved if we believe

[21:37] <VCI-Bob> Sure

[21:37] <Bezalel-VHL> 2Complete was a blessing.

[21:38] <Rich-VHL> 7wish I was here earlier then Bez

[21:38] <VCI-Bob> We know that we have come to know him if we obey his commands. (1 John 2:3 NIV)

[21:38] <VCI-Bob> The man who says, "I know him," but does not do what he commands is a liar, and the truth is not in him. (1 John 2:4 NIV)

[21:38] <VCI-Bob> But if anyone obeys his word, God's love is truly made complete in him. This is how we know we are in him: (1 John 2:5 NIV)

[21:38] <VCI-Bob> Whoever claims to live in him must walk as Jesus did. (1 John 2:6 NIV)

[21:38] <Runningdeer-VHL> Yes he was

[21:38] <VCI-Bob> This is how we know who the children of God are and who the children of the devil are: Anyone who does not do what is right is not a child of God; nor is anyone who does not love his brother. (1 John 3:10 NIV)

[21:38] <VCI-Bob> This is the message you heard from the beginning: We should love one another. (1 John 3:11 NIV)

[21:39] <VCI-Bob> We know that we have passed from death to life, because we love our brothers. Anyone who does not love remains in death. (1 John 3:14 NIV)

[21:39] <VCI-Bob> Anyone who hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life in him. (1 John 3:15 NIV)

[21:39] <VCI-Bob> This is how we know what love is: Jesus Christ laid down his life for us. And we ought to lay down our lives for our brothers. (1 John 3:16 NIV)

[21:39] <VCI-Bob> We know that we live in him and he in us, because he has given us of his Spirit. (1 John 4:13 NIV)

[21:39] <VCI-Bob> And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent his Son to be the Savior of the world. (1 John 4:14 NIV)

[21:39] <VCI-Bob> If anyone acknowledges that Jesus is the Son of God, God lives in him and he in God. (1 John 4:15 NIV)

[21:39] <Rich-VHL> 7that sure is wonderfull

[21:39] <Runningdeer-VHL> Well God is love and in him there is no darkness at all

[21:39] <VCI-Bob> Sure is!

[21:40] <Rich-VHL> 7true deer

[21:40] <VCI-Bob> And this is the testimony: God has given us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. (1 John 5:11 NIV)

[21:40] <VCI-Bob> He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life. (1 John 5:12 NIV)

[21:40] <VCI-Bob> I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life. (1 John 5:13 NIV)

[21:40] <VCI-Bob> Very simple - we have the Son, we have life!

[21:40] <Rich-VHL> 7Amen and Amen

[21:40] <Bezalel-VHL> 2Thank you Jesus!

[21:41] <Runningdeer-VHL> And when we have love for one another we are showing a lost and dying world God's love

[21:41] <Rich-VHL> 7yup deer

[21:41] <VCI-Bob> Yes, Jesus, thank you

[21:41] <Runningdeer-VHL> Thank you Jesus

[21:41] <VCI-Bob> We know that we are children of God, and that the whole world is under the control of the evil one. (1 John 5:19 NIV)

[21:41] <VCI-Bob> We know also that the Son of God has come and has given us understanding, so that we may know him who is true. And we are in him who is true--even in his Son Jesus Christ. He is the true God and eternal life. (1 John 5:20 NIV)

[21:41] <Runningdeer-VHL> \o/

[21:41] <Bezalel-VHL> 2You are our Way and our life.

[21:41] <Rich-VHL> 7He loved us enough to die for us

[21:42] <VCI-Bob> I like that last verse especially

[21:42] <Runningdeer-VHL> Yes he sure did

[21:42] <Rich-VHL> 7me too Bob

[21:42] <Runningdeer-VHL> Now who else would literally do that for us?

[21:43] <Rich-VHL> 7it says some where there too that we have an unction from God to know all things too

[21:43] <Runningdeer-VHL> what he did

[21:43] <Runningdeer-VHL> Yes it does say that

[21:43] <VCI-Bob> But you have an anointing from the Holy One, and all of you know the truth. (1 John 2:20 NIV)

[21:43] <VCI-Bob> I do not write to you because you do not know the truth, but because you do know it and because no lie comes from the truth. (1 John 2:21 NIV)

[21:44] <Rich-VHL> 7no one else could either deer

[21:44] <VCI-Bob> I am writing these things to you about those who are trying to lead you astray. (1 John 2:26 NIV)

[21:44] <VCI-Bob> As for you, the anointing you received from him remains in you, and you do not need anyone to teach you. But as his anointing teaches you about all things and as that anointing is real, not counterfeit--just as it has taught you, remain in him. (1 John 2:27 NIV)

[21:44] <Runningdeer-VHL> That's true!!!!

[21:45] <Rich-VHL> 7what a book that 1st John huh

[21:45] <Runningdeer-VHL> No one else could and be able to suffer a horrible death like he suffered

[21:45] <VCI-Bob> Yes, a wonderful book - jam packed with encouragement

[21:45] <Runningdeer-VHL> I love to read 1st John

[21:46] <Rich-VHL> 7i know deer and it almost makes me cry to think of what He went through

[21:46] <VCI-Bob> He was very brave and courageous, huh guys? So much for the men who think that Christianity is a religion for wimps

[21:46] <Runningdeer-VHL> Yes it makes me sad too

[21:47] <Rich-VHL> 7your right there Bob

[21:47] <VCI-Bob> He was the ultimate hero

[21:47] <skip-VHL> 4who is going to be the wimp in the end?

[21:47] <Rich-VHL> 7paid the ultimate price but then recieved the ultimate Glory

[21:48] <Bezalel-VHL> 2At the Right Hand of God!

[21:48] <VCI-Bob> Yes, and we are called to follow in his steps

[21:48] <Rich-VHL> 7yup and we will I'm sure all of us here

[21:49] <skip-VHL> 4I hang my head in shame for I have not been what HE called me to be

[21:49] <Runningdeer-VHL> Amen

[21:49] <Rich-VHL> 7ah but in the near future it will happen dear skip

[21:49] <VCI-Bob> Me either, Skip, but we look ahead

[21:50] <Runningdeer-VHL> I am always striving to be what God wants me to be

[21:50] Z-VHL [~Z-VHL@jproxy1.talkcity.com] has quit IRC (Z-VHL has left the room)

[21:50] <Runningdeer-VHL> I'

[21:50] <Bezalel-VHL> 2Bye Z

[21:50] <Rich-VHL> 7we must try to think of the Glory reserved for us and not only the bad stuff

[21:50] <skip-VHL> 4I LOVE YOU YESHUA,cause you first loved me in all my sin

[21:50] <Runningdeer-VHL> That's right

[21:50] <Rich-VHL> 7by Z

[21:50] <VCI-Bob> Right, RICH!!!

[21:51] <Bezalel-VHL> 2And Skip, soon enought we'll be called to stand for Him, and face the consequences of our Love.

[21:51] <Runningdeer-VHL> We cannot continue to dwell on our past mistakes if we want to go forward

[21:51] <Rich-VHL> 7even though its hard sometimes huhBob

[21:51] <VCI-Bob> Yes

[21:52] <VCI-Bob> True, Runningdear

[21:52] <skip-VHL> 4sometimes the harder I try the behinder I get

[21:52] <Bezalel-VHL> 2:-)

[21:52] <VCI-Bob> Now if we are children, then we are heirs--heirs of God and co-heirs with Christ, if indeed we share in his sufferings in order that we may also share in his glory. (Romans 8:17 NIV)

[21:52] <VCI-Bob> I consider that our present sufferings are not worth comparing with the glory that will be revealed in us. (Romans 8:18 NIV)

[21:52] <Runningdeer-VHL> The past will keep us from having what God wants for us

[21:52] <VCI-Bob> I don't like sufferings - we all shy away from them

[21:53] <Rich-VHL> 7yup

[21:53] <VCI-Bob> I don't like the idea of "taking up my cross" - but it's the only way

[21:53] <skip-VHL> 4the devil has tried to convince me I deserve the hardship but i remember he is the father of LIES

[21:54] <VCI-Bob> and, as Rich said, it's essential that we keep our "eyes on the prize"

[21:54] <Rich-VHL> 7I know skip

[21:54] <Rich-VHL> 7and that prize is Jesus Himself

[21:54] <skip-VHL> 4YAHOO

[21:54] <VCI-Bob> It's good for us to meditate on what God has in store for us - to think about the wonderful glory that we will experience for ETERNITY!

[21:55] <Bezalel-VHL> 2I like to think of it as God's refining of us, Skip.

[21:55] <VCI-Bob> Yeah!

[21:55] <skip-VHL> 4true BEZ

[21:55] <Bezalel-VHL> 2We'll only get stronger and better through the refining process.

[21:55] <Rich-VHL> 7teaching us just as we tach our own children huh Bez

[21:55] <Bezalel-VHL> 2:-)

[21:56] <VCI-Bob> People give the devil too much credit - even the "bad" things in our lives are only there to the extent that God allows them

[21:56] <Rich-VHL> 7and He doesn't test us beyond what we can bear

[21:56] <Runningdeer-VHL> That's right

[21:56] <VCI-Bob> As evidenced by people such as Job and Paul

[21:56] <skip-VHL> 4PTLY

[21:56] <skip-VHL> 4forget the y

[21:56] <Rich-VHL> 7whats that ski

[21:56] <Runningdeer-VHL> Theere isn't anything that doesn't happen to us wuthout a reason

[21:57] <Bezalel-VHL> 2The crucible for silver and the furnace for gold, but the LORD tests the heart. (NIV Prov 17:3)

[21:57] <Rich-VHL> 7skip

[21:57] <skip-VHL> 4PRAISE THE LORD

[21:57] <VCI-Bob> Yes, Satan was allowed to bother them, but only to a limited degree, and only for God's ultimate purposes

[21:57] <Runningdeer-VHL> Amen

[21:57] <Rich-VHL> 7yes for His purposes

[21:58] <Rich-VHL> 7and His Glory

[21:58] <Bezalel-VHL> 2And even with the trials and tribulations, we are truly blessed.

[21:58] <Runningdeer-VHL> Yes we are Bez

[21:58] <Rich-VHL> 7yes Bez we truely lean from them

[21:58] <VCI-Bob> Yes, we are, though we so easily forget it, or at least I do

[21:58] <Rich-VHL> 7learn

[21:58] <skip-VHL> 4me too BOB

[21:58] <Bezalel-VHL> 2Amen, Bob.....

[21:59] <Rich-VHL> 7we are still children

[21:59] <VCI-Bob> I'm glad He's very patient - I'm evidence #1 of His extreme patience :)

[21:59] <Runningdeer-VHL> Amen and he is our Father

[21:59] <VCI-Bob> Yes

[21:59] <skip-VHL> 4I think we all feel that way Bob

[21:59] <VCI-Bob> yeah :)

[21:59] <Bezalel-VHL> 2Then I must be a close second, Bob!

[21:59] <Rich-VHL> 7yup skip

[22:00] <Runningdeer-VHL> I know I do

[22:00] <VCI-Bob> Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in the heavenly realms with every spiritual blessing in Christ!!! (Ephesians 1:3 NIV)

[22:00] <skip-VHL> 4not perfect just loved and forgiven

[22:00] <Dex-VHL> 7I'm talking about Jesus, Rightous, Holy, Savior, Healer, Praise God he's coming again.

[22:00] <Runningdeer-VHL> Amen

[22:00] <VCI-Bob> For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight. In love (Ephesians 1:4 NIV)

[22:00] <VCI-Bob> he predestined us to be adopted as his sons through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasure and will-- (Ephesians 1:5 NIV)

[22:00] <VCI-Bob> to the praise of his glorious grace, which he has freely given us in the One he loves. (Ephesians 1:6 NIV)

[22:01] <Runningdeer-VHL> Amen and amen

[22:01] <skip-VHL> 4I know that predestined part is SO TRUE

[22:01] <Bezalel-VHL> 2Praise You Father, our Lord.

[22:01] <Rich-VHL> 7oh those verses of promise aren't they so good to read

[22:01] <Runningdeer-VHL> Yes they sure are!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11

[22:01] <VCI-Bob> Look, it's all His doing! His choosing! His predestining! His adopting! His pleasure! His will! His grace! His praise!!!

[22:02] <Bezalel-VHL> 2His GLORY for ever and ever!

[22:02] <Runningdeer-VHL> go on....................

[22:02] <Rich-VHL> 7it sure is Bob

[22:02] <Runningdeer-VHL> Amen

[22:02] <skip-VHL> 4or else I wouldnt be here tonight with you wonderful folks

[22:02] <VCI-Bob> In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, in accordance with the riches of God's grace (Ephesians 1:7 NIV)

[22:02] <VCI-Bob> that he lavished on us with all wisdom and understanding. (Ephesians 1:8 NIV)

[22:02] <Runningdeer-VHL> That's right skip

[22:03] <Rich-VHL> 7thats why I like to say the genous ( is that spelled right) of God

[22:03] <VCI-Bob> He chose us, simply because it pleased Him to do that! To pour His grace on us, so we could be His children forever!

[22:03] <Rich-VHL> 7just think how smart HE IS

[22:03] <VCI-Bob> oh yeah!

[22:04] <Bezalel-VHL> 2And on that day, He'll point to us and say "I choose YOU!"

[22:04] <VCI-Bob> an IQ of 10000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 at least :)

[22:04] <VCI-Bob> Amen!

[22:04] <Runningdeer-VHL> Yes and that means forever and forever and forever and..............

[22:04] <Runningdeer-VHL> amen

[22:04] <Rich-VHL> 7HE wrote our lives before the foundation of this world

[22:04] <VCI-Bob> And he made known to us the mystery of his will according to his good pleasure, which he purposed in Christ, (Ephesians 1:9 NIV)

[22:04] <VCI-Bob> to be put into effect when the times will have reached their fulfillment--to bring all things in heaven and on earth together under one head, even Christ. (Ephesians 1:10 NIV)

[22:05] <skip-VHL> 4I heard something that worries me yesterday and that is sicientist say they will clone a human in the next several years

[22:05] <VCI-Bob> Look, more things that HE did - His revealing, His will, His pleasure, His purpose!

[22:05] <Rich-VHL> 7its all Him Bob

[22:05] <Runningdeer-VHL> Yes amen

[22:06] <Bezalel-VHL> 2HIS GLORY! Praise the Lord, hallelujah.

[22:06] <VCI-Bob> Skip, I think that is one of the signs of the times - mankind crossing boundaries and trying to play God

[22:06] <Runningdeer-VHL> His power!!!!!!!!!

[22:06] <Rich-VHL> 7God has done it all from before the foundation

[22:06] <skip-VHL> 4most definatly BOB

[22:06] <Bezalel-VHL> 2I'm special, because HE chose me! Not the other way around.

[22:06] <VCI-Bob> Right!

[22:07] <skip-VHL> 4amen BEZ

[22:07] <Rich-VHL> 7He knows the end of things from the beginning of things He wrote it that way

[22:07] <VCI-Bob> And, Bez, this is nothing compared to what it will be!

[22:07] <Dex-VHL> 7Where did you hear that Skip?

[22:07] <Bezalel-VHL> 2And that is a promise!

[22:07] <Rich-VHL> 7Amen Bez

[22:07] <skip-VHL> 4on one of the late night news shows

[22:08] <Runningdeer-VHL> That's why after he created me, he threw the mold away. There will never be another like me because I am specail in his eyes

[22:08] <Bezalel-VHL> 2:-), Deer.

[22:08] <Dex-VHL> 7oh ok thanks

[22:08] <Rich-VHL> 7true deer

[22:08] <VCI-Bob> It's all part of mankind's arrogance - thinking that we can do things better than God

[22:08] <Rich-VHL> 7yup

[22:09] <Bezalel-VHL> 2Once again, the ultimate sin, pride.

[22:09] <Dex-VHL> 7That's the same problem the Babylonians had.

[22:09] <Runningdeer-VHL> 'You can look this whole wide world over and you will not find another me like me

[22:09] <VCI-Bob> And, ultimately, an attempt to achieve divine status apart from God

[22:09] <VCI-Bob> yes, Bez

[22:09] <skip-VHL> 4but it might be where the one who suffers a mortal head wound and comes back to life comes from

[22:10] <VCI-Bob> "For God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil." (Genesis 3:5 NIV)

[22:10] <VCI-Bob> Same old lie

[22:10] <Bezalel-VHL> 2I use to think I was smart. Then I got saved....

[22:10] <Rich-VHL> 7yes it is Bob

[22:10] <Dex-VHL> 7same old desire

[22:10] <Rich-VHL> 7me too Bez

[22:10] <Runningdeer-VHL> It's a spirit of rebellion which is witchcraft

[22:10] <Rich-VHL> 7might be deer

[22:11] <VCI-Bob> enlightenment, divinity - but who needs God? Follow me instead - the serpent's lie that the antichrist will repeat

[22:11] <skip-VHL> 4yeah and the older I get the smarter i realize my mom is

[22:11] <Rich-VHL> 7LOL skip me too

[22:11] <Rich-VHL> 7and I'm 52

[22:11] <Bezalel-VHL> 2And the AC will be very, very good at it. It will make Clinton look like a piker.

[22:11] <Runningdeer-VHL> me too skip

[22:12] <VCI-Bob> yeah

[22:12] <VCI-Bob> Here's some news:

[22:12] <Rich-VHL> 7OK

[22:12] <VCI-Bob> From the J Post

[22:12] <VCI-Bob> JERUSALEM (February 16) - Prime Minister Ehud Barak last night finally made his long-awaited decision and told Prime Minister-elect Ariel Sharon that he would accept his offer of the Defense portfolio, effectively finalizing plans for a national unity government.

[22:13] <VCI-Bob> The top posts in the country have now been decided, as Barak also claimed the Foreign Ministry for Labor. Sharon had offered the party two of the top three portfolios. Regional Cooperation Minister Shimon Peres is expected to be named foreign minister today and Likud MK Silvan Shalom finance minister.

[22:13] <skip-VHL> 4I got a email from someone who loves Yeshua but is into astrology, I dont think the two go together am I wrong?

[22:13] <VCI-Bob> You are right, Skip

[22:13] <Rich-VHL> 7your not wrong skip

[22:14] <Rich-VHL> 7is this good news Bob

[22:14] <Runningdeer-VHL> No they don't skip\

[22:14] <Bezalel-VHL> 2Astrology, another attempt by man to explain himself.

[22:14] <Runningdeer-VHL> That's right

[22:14] <Rich-VHL> 7yup

[22:14] <Bezalel-VHL> 2and control his destiny.

[22:14] <VCI-Bob> Well, Rich, talking to Stan the other day, he doesn't think so

[22:14] <Runningdeer-VHL> You can't claim to l9ove God and the works of darkness troo

[22:15] <skip-VHL> 4so does this mean he has formed his government?

[22:15] <Rich-VHL> 7just wondering Bob

[22:15] <VCI-Bob> Stan thinks that Peres and Barak in those positions is bad news, and he's probably right

[22:15] <VCI-Bob> In the process, Skip

[22:15] <Bezalel-VHL> 2Barak as Foreign Minister sounds kinda iffy.

[22:15] <Dex-VHL> 7Why trust in the stars when you can trust in the one who made them.

[22:15] <skip-VHL> 4amen DEX

[22:15] <Bezalel-VHL> 2Or was that Defense.

[22:15] <Rich-VHL> 7oh how true Dex

[22:15] <VCI-Bob> But, as I told Stan, I think Sharon has the wherewithall to keep those two in line

[22:15] <Runningdeer-VHL> That's right

[22:16] <Runningdeer-VHL> That's right

[22:16] <VCI-Bob> More news:

[22:16] <VCI-Bob> JERUSALEM (February 16) - Prime Minister-elect Ariel Sharon relayed a message to Syrian President Bashar Assad yesterday that Israel is willing to start negotiations with all Arab countries without pre-conditions, but that it expects Syria to rein in Hizbullah - which has begun operating not only in south Lebanon but also in the Gaza Strip.

[22:16] <Runningdeer-VHL> amen

[22:16] <Rich-VHL> 7especialy in the situation they are now in huh Bob

[22:16] <VCI-Bob> Yes

[22:16] <Runningdeer-VHL> What has the stars ever done for me anyway?

[22:16] <skip-VHL> 4if he had not been able to form it would they have another election ?

[22:16] <VCI-Bob> Sharon may "expect" Syria to rein in Hizbullah, but I doubt if that will happen

[22:16] <VCI-Bob> Yes, skip

[22:17] <Rich-VHL> 7Sharon is just going thru the motions I think Bob so it will look good to the world

[22:17] <VCI-Bob> The message was sent through EU special Mideast envoy Miguel Moratinos, who met yesterday with Sharon in Tel Aviv, and with Palestinian Authority Chairman Yasser Arafat in Gaza. Moratinos is scheduled to go to Syria at the end of the month.

[22:17] <VCI-Bob> According to Sharon aide Ra'anan Gissin, Moratinos said that Assad wants to reform Syria's economy and modernize the country. Gissin said that Sharon had replied that he would be interested in restarting negotiations with the Syrians, but that it is difficult for Israel to negotiate with Syria while Damascus is aiding and abetting hostile actions against Israel.

[22:17] <VCI-Bob> Hizbullah today has more freedom of action and cooperation under Bashar's regime than it did under Bashar's father, the late president Hafez Assad, Sharon told Moratinos.

[22:18] <Rich-VHL> 7he knows what the arabs will do

[22:18] <skip-VHL> 4I will study up on Israels politics cause i sure dont understand it now

[22:18] <VCI-Bob> It's complicated, yes

[22:19] <Rich-VHL> 7and Sharon knows what Israel must do too

[22:19] <Bezalel-VHL> 2I guess Sharon couldn't start off by bombing Damasacus, huh?

[22:20] <VCI-Bob> LOL Bez - I think he should name YOU as defense minister :)

[22:20] <Rich-VHL> 7he could have but he needs to go thru the motions Bez

[22:20] <skip-VHL> 4I heard on tv too that the arabs are reluctant to send more money to Arafat now since he has misused it before

[22:20] <VCI-Bob> Yes, Skip - corruption is rampant in the PA

[22:20] <Bezalel-VHL> 2He probably doesn't care, Skip. The US provides more than enough.

[22:20] <VCI-Bob> And, reports indicate it's on the verge of collapse

[22:21] <Rich-VHL> 7probably a good thing huh Bob

[22:21] <Bezalel-VHL> 2Well, hope Arafat has squirrelled enough away to bribe himself into Baghdad.

[22:21] <skip-VHL> 4the USA is a prime example of trying to serve two masters huhg

[22:21] <Rich-VHL> 7yup skip

[22:22] <VCI-Bob> Not sure, Rich - it would mean anarchy in the territories, perhaps - with various factions vying for power

[22:22] <Bezalel-VHL> 2Anarchy is pretty rampant there now. Just won't have a leader to blame it on.

[22:23] <VCI-Bob> I read that report, Bez, but it seems unlikely to me, that Arafat would flee to Iraq and set up shop

[22:23] <Rich-VHL> 7it might be easier for Sharon to stop all that gun play if the p.a. weren't there

[22:23] <VCI-Bob> He's an old man, and his lifelong dream is to rule Palestine from Jerusalem

[22:23] <VCI-Bob> won't happen, of course :)

[22:23] <Runningdeer-VHL> My IGD keeps growling and barking at me

[22:23] <Runningdeer-VHL> lol

[22:23] <VCI-Bob> IGD?

[22:23] <skip-VHL> 4is the PA differant than the Hizbulla?

[22:24] <Runningdeer-VHL> Internet Guard Dog

[22:24] <Runningdeer-VHL> lol

[22:24] <VCI-Bob> Ignorant Growling Dog?

[22:24] <Runningdeer-VHL> lol

[22:24] <VCI-Bob> Yes, Skip...

[22:24] <skip-VHL> 4but both are terrorist huh?

[22:25] <Rich-VHL> 7gotta get to bed you all God Bless each and everyone of you see ya next time

[22:25] <VCI-Bob> The Palestinian Authority is the quasi-government body supposedly in charge in the "West Bank" and Gaze

[22:25] <VCI-Bob> Gaza

[22:25] <VCI-Bob> see ya Rich!

[22:25] <skip-VHL> 4Goodnight Rich

[22:25] <Runningdeer-VHL> Bye Riuch and shalom

[22:25] <skip-VHL> 4peace be with you

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[22:25] <VCI-Bob> Officially, the PA is not a terrorist group, however, it's not that simple, because it consists of smaller factions that are, such as Fatah and the Tanzim

[22:26] <Bezalel-VHL> 2Now, I will say good night. I need to let my wife go home. (I'm staying at my daughter's to take care of the grandsons). :-) Thanks all for the inspiration and love.

[22:26] <VCI-Bob> Night Bez! God bless!

[22:26] <skip-VHL> 4Shalom BEZ

[22:26] <Dex-VHL> 7God Bless you Bez

[22:26] <Runningdeer-VHL> Bye now Bez

[22:26] <Runningdeer-VHL> I love you in Jesus

[22:26] <VCI-Bob> The PA is the overall governing body, but there are many factions, most of which are involved in terrorism in one way or another

[22:26] <Runningdeer-VHL> :-)

[22:26] <Bezalel-VHL> 2as RunningDeer would say \o?

[22:26] <VCI-Bob> Hezbollah, or Hizbullah, is entirely different.....

[22:27] <Bezalel-VHL> 2\o/

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[22:27] <Runningdeer-VHL> \o/\o/\o/

[22:27] <VCI-Bob> it operates primarily in Southern Lebanon, with support from Iran

[22:28] <VCI-Bob> Hamas is another similar group, that operates in Israel, and both Hamas and Hezbollah are explicitly dedicated to the destruction of Israel

[22:28] <Dex-VHL> 7how many are in them

[22:28] <VCI-Bob> Both are not only terrorist groups, but broad social organizations, that provide services to the populace

[22:29] <Dex-VHL> 7i see

[22:29] <VCI-Bob> Not sure, Dex

[22:29] <skip-VHL> 4yeah like guns and bombs

[22:29] <Dex-VHL> 7that is a good device for recruiting

[22:30] <VCI-Bob> Yes, Hamas and Hezbollah are popular because they do provide assistance to people

[22:30] <VCI-Bob> and of course because they inflame hatred for Israel

[22:30] <Dex-VHL> 7so did john gotti

[22:30] <VCI-Bob> yeah :)

[22:31] <VCI-Bob> Another group that is gaining more prominence once again is the PFLP

[22:31] <VCI-Bob> Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine

[22:31] <skip-VHL> 4PFLP

[22:31] <VCI-Bob> This is a Palestinian group, operating in Lebanon mostly, but also in Israel

[22:32] <skip-VHL> 4another one to defend against

[22:32] <VCI-Bob> They are not part of the PA, but are the "bad cop" to Arafat's "good cop" - if you know what I mean

[22:32] <Dex-VHL> 7do these groups support each other or are they in opposition?

[22:33] <Dex-VHL> 7they do have one goal

[22:33] <VCI-Bob> Arafat would not claim to be in league with the PFLP, or Hamas, but in fact he does allow them to operate and coordinate with them

[22:33] <VCI-Bob> but not officially, so that he can still claim to be a man of peace

[22:34] <VCI-Bob> It's all a farce, of course, and everyone knows it

[22:34] <skip-VHL> 4how on earth did arafat get the noble peace prise?

[22:34] <VCI-Bob> Insanity

[22:34] <skip-VHL> 4obiously

[22:34] <Dex-VHL> 7wrong. the media gave it to him

[22:34] <skip-VHL> 4you know what I mean

[22:35] <VCI-Bob> Yes, Dex - it's part of a concerted campaign to wrest land from Israel - portray Arafat as a peacemaker

[22:36] <VCI-Bob> Well, folks, I guess it's that time once again :)

[22:36] <VCI-Bob> Time to shut er down :)

[22:36] <skip-VHL> 4YES SHALOM MY FRIENDS

[22:37] <Dex-VHL> 7Ted Turner is perhaps the most influential antichristian in international behind the scenes politics

[22:37] <VCI-Bob> Shalom, and thanks for keeping this chat lively and fun!

[22:37] <VCI-Bob> Good night, everyone :)

[22:37] <Dex-VHL> 7God bless you all. Running are you staying?

[22:37] <skip-VHL> 4it has been a pleasure to visit with ya'll again

[22:37] <skip-VHL> 4love yous

[22:40] <skip-VHL> 4BYE YA'LL

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[22:42] <Runningdeer-VHL> I have a prayer request for my neice

[22:42] <VCI-Bob> yes, deer?

[22:42] <Runningdeer-VHL> My neice just turned 11 years old Feb. 5th

[22:43] <Runningdeer-VHL> and she has been having weak spells

[22:43] <Runningdeer-VHL> when she shouldn't be

[22:43] <VCI-Bob> Has she seen a doc yet, Deer?

[22:44] <Runningdeer-VHL> My mother has been torn up over it but she had a dream the other night where the doctor's test was all wrong

[22:44] <Runningdeer-VHL> She already had a bunch of tests done on her

[22:44] <VCI-Bob> Lord God, we ask you for this young lady, to put your care on her

[22:44] <Runningdeer-VHL> but stioll the doctors can't find anything wrong

[22:44] <VCI-Bob> She is yours, and we commit her to your loving hands, Lord

[22:45] <Runningdeer-VHL> She has lost a lot of weight

[22:45] <Runningdeer-VHL> and her ribs are beginning to show

[22:45] <VCI-Bob> We ask you to help them find the problem

[22:47] <Runningdeer-VHL> Thankyou so much for praying for her

[22:47] <Runningdeer-VHL> :-)

[22:47] <VCI-Bob> :)

[22:48] <VCI-Bob> Good night, friends

[22:48] <Runningdeer-VHL> But my neice is showing all the symptoms of mono and that is treatable you know

[22:49] <Dex-VHL> 7God Bless you Bob

[22:49] <Runningdeer-VHL> God bless you too

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