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[20:00] michaelm6-VHL [~michaelm6-VHL@proxy12.talkcity.com] has joined #VHL-Prophecy

[20:00] <michaelm6-VHL> hello bob

[20:00] <VCI-Bob> Michael! You made it! I was wondering if anyone would get in

[20:01] <michaelm6-VHL> i had trouble

[20:01] <VCI-Bob> It seems very congested - I had trouble myself

[20:01] <michaelm6-VHL> what causes that

[20:01] <VCI-Bob> Well, it is using the internet chat services, and I guess they are overwhelmed by the volume

[20:02] <michaelm6-VHL> ok

[20:02] <VCI-Bob> So what's on your mind tonight, Michael?

[20:02] <michaelm6-VHL> i cant stay long, my sister in law is about to have her first baby at any minute

[20:03] <VCI-Bob> oh boy! that's terrific!!!

[20:03] <VCI-Bob> right there where you are?

[20:03] <michaelm6-VHL> she was due last friday and hasn't had it yet

[20:04] Bezalel-VHL [~Bezalel-VHL@proxy3.talkcity.com] has joined #VHL-Prophecy

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[20:04] <VCI-Bob> Welcome, Bez! Glad you made it in!

[20:04] <Bezalel-VHL> Pant, pant, pant, I made it!

[20:04] <VCI-Bob> Hello, Rod!

[20:04] <michaelm6-VHL> the room is getting full now

[20:05] <rod1-VHL> hello

[20:05] <VCI-Bob> I know - it's rough tonight to get in

[20:05] <michaelm6-VHL> hello bez , rod

[20:05] <Bezalel-VHL> Hi Michael and Rod and Bob

[20:05] red-VHL [~red-VHL@proxy11.talkcity.com] has joined #VHL-Prophecy

[20:06] <VCI-Bob> Hello, Red!

[20:06] <Bezalel-VHL> Hi Red....

[20:06] <michaelm6-VHL> i figure if they keep counting votes in florida, I will win

[20:06] <VCI-Bob> Yeah, Michael! :)

[20:07] <red-VHL> hello everyone- sorry I'm late had to put my kids to bed. What did I miss?

[20:07] <VCI-Bob> Looks like we have a few new people here

[20:07] <VCI-Bob> Nothing, red, we are just getting started

[20:08] <VCI-Bob> For the newcomers, this is an open discussion - any subject related to Bible prophecy

[20:08] <VCI-Bob> Let's pray first - Lord Jesus, we ask you to be here with us, and may Your Spirit teach us

[20:09] <VCI-Bob> we worship you as our God and Saviour, the one who paid the great price for our sinful rebellion

[20:09] <VCI-Bob> and we thank you for the forgiveness that you have extended to us

[20:09] <Bezalel-VHL> 2We look to You for guidance in this time of trial both in Israel and the US.

[20:09] <VCI-Bob> May you soon come back, Jesus, and may you prepare us as your servants

[20:10] <VCI-Bob> Thank you that you hear us in your great mercy, though we are but dust

[20:10] <VCI-Bob> Amen :)

[20:10] <red-VHL> amen

[20:11] <VCI-Bob> Well, we often start off discussing the Israel situation

[20:11] <michaelm6-VHL> 4so what is up with the electionin isreal

[20:11] <VCI-Bob> which continues to deteriorate towards war

[20:12] <VCI-Bob> Michael, elections are forthcoming, but not real soon

[20:12] <VCI-Bob> Barak has conceded to new elections, and I believe the date has been set for May - I'll confirm that

[20:13] <VCI-Bob> So, in the meantime, he is a "lame duck"

[20:13] <michaelm6-VHL> 4i think you are right bob

[20:14] <VCI-Bob> and the Knesset has already served notice that it will tolerate no "peace agreements" that arise from a desperate attempt by Barak to stay in power

[20:14] <red-VHL> my husband is in the reserves and I'm concerded about the possible position that the US will take in all this

[20:14] <VCI-Bob> Meanwhile, more people are voicing the opinion that a regional war is a strong possibility

[20:15] <VCI-Bob> Red, it's unlikely that the US would take military steps to protect Israel

[20:15] <VCI-Bob> if anything, when push comes to shove, the US will be more interested in the flow of Mideast oil

[20:15] <red-VHL> that is what I was afraid of what of taking the other side?

[20:16] <michaelm6-VHL> 4i read an article that predicted an all out war

[20:16] <VCI-Bob> It's hard to say exactly what will happen, but personally, I don't see the US getting directly involved if there is a war

[20:17] <VCI-Bob> Michael, yes, that's my opinion about what will happen - an all out war between Israel and several countries - and this is apparently what the Scriptures foretell

[20:17] <red-VHL> I pray not but my husband already said that he will not fight against Israel.

[20:17] <VCI-Bob> Good for him, Red!

[20:17] <VCI-Bob> May the Lord give him strength and resolve

[20:18] <michaelm6-VHL> 4i agree, how is the problem with lebonon and the terrorist group

[20:18] <VCI-Bob> Nothing has really changed, Michael - the nothern border with Lebanon continues to be very tense

[20:19] <VCI-Bob> though Syria and Hezbollah have been given many warnings in recent days......

[20:19] <VCI-Bob> they do not seem willing to back off in any way

[20:19] <VCI-Bob> apparently, Assad is increasingly of the opinion that he could win a military conflict with Israel

[20:20] <VCI-Bob> which is absurd, of course

[20:21] <VCI-Bob> There are a number of Bible passages that we believe address this upcoming war

[20:21] <michaelm6-VHL> 4i also saw where a major terrorist escaped from proson with the palistinians help

[20:21] <VCI-Bob> many of them we have looked at before in this chat

[20:21] <VCI-Bob> Yes, Michael - a Hamas murderer "escaped" but was actually released by the PA

[20:22] <VCI-Bob> This from Arutz Sheva:Contrary to media reports yesterday, arch-terrorist Muhammad Def did not escape from a Palestinian Authority prison last week, but was rather set free by Muhammad Dahlan. So reports a Hamas internet site in Gaza this morning. Def is responsible for, among others, the #18 bus attacks in Jerusalem over four years ago, which killed 33 people.

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[20:23] <VCI-Bob> I imagine there are several people unable to get into the room tonight :(

[20:24] <michaelm6-VHL> 4yes

[20:24] <Bezalel-VHL> 2Or is that "wishful" thinking? .... ;-)

[20:24] <VCI-Bob> One of the Bible passages that I would like to look at is Psalm 83

[20:24] <VCI-Bob> I believe it speaks of the current situation

[20:25] <michaelm6-VHL> 4go ahead bob

[20:25] <VCI-Bob> It describes a military alliance of Arab nations against Israel, an alliance that has never been fulfilled historically

[20:25] <VCI-Bob> though many of the participants in 1948 and 1967 are included

[20:26] <VCI-Bob> which makes sense, because in reality any war that occurs next is actually just an extension of those

[20:26] <michaelm6-VHL> 4who are edom, moab and the others listed in v.6-7

[20:26] <VCI-Bob> for example, Syria has technically remained in a state of war with Israel since 1948

[20:27] <VCI-Bob> ok - let's look at the Psalm

[20:27] <VCI-Bob> the first few verses are an appeal to the Lord to assess the situation, and take action

[20:27] <VCI-Bob> A song. A psalm of Asaph. O God, do not keep silent; be not quiet, O God, be not still. (Psalms 83:1 NIV)

[20:27] <VCI-Bob> See how your enemies are astir, how your foes rear their heads. (Psalms 83:2 NIV)

[20:27] <VCI-Bob> With cunning they conspire against your people; they plot against those you cherish. (Psalms 83:3 NIV)

[20:27] <VCI-Bob> "Come," they say, "let us destroy them as a nation, that the name of Israel be remembered no more." (Psalms 83:4 NIV)

[20:28] <michaelm6-VHL> 4in mine, it says that they are the descendents of lot

[20:28] <VCI-Bob> Patience, michael, we'll get there :)

[20:28] <michaelm6-VHL> 4ok

[20:28] <VCI-Bob> Notice the key features of the first few verses:

[20:29] <VCI-Bob> this group "conspires" and "plots" against Israel, with the objective of entirely obliterating her

[20:29] <VCI-Bob> With one mind they plot together; they form an alliance against you-- (Psalms 83:5 NIV)

[20:29] <VCI-Bob> But look at verse 5 - who is it really that they are forming an alliance against?

[20:30] <VCI-Bob> the "you" in verse 5 is God

[20:30] <michaelm6-VHL> 4yes,

[20:30] <VCI-Bob> whom the Psalmist is directing his prayer towards

[20:31] <VCI-Bob> ok, now here is the alliance:

[20:31] <VCI-Bob> the tents of Edom and the Ishmaelites, of Moab and the Hagrites, (Psalms 83:6 NIV)

[20:31] <VCI-Bob> Gebal, Ammon and Amalek, Philistia, with the people of Tyre. (Psalms 83:7 NIV)

[20:31] <VCI-Bob> Even Assyria has joined them to lend strength to the descendants of Lot. Selah (Psalms 83:8 NIV)

[20:31] <VCI-Bob> These comprise a wide range of lands surrounding Israel....

[20:32] <VCI-Bob> and would roughly correspond with Jordan, Lebanon, Syria, Saudi Arabia, and Iraq

[20:33] <Bezalel-VHL> 2Interesting that Egypt is not included.

[20:33] <VCI-Bob> notice that Egypt is not included, nor any other north African nations, nor Iran, nor any European nations

[20:33] <michaelm6-VHL> 4i thought we were on good terms with saudi arabia, but i read some stuff today that makes me think otherwise

[20:33] <VCI-Bob> right, Michael

[20:33] <VCI-Bob> I think the way it is expressd in v 8 is interesting

[20:33] <VCI-Bob> "even Assyria" (Iraq)

[20:34] <Bezalel-VHL> 2Who are the descendents of Lot?

[20:34] <michaelm6-VHL> 4it makes since, the others start in and iraq joins

[20:34] <red-VHL> what about the news that the UN has signed a resolution that Israel has no right to impose law?

[20:34] <michaelm6-VHL> 4later

[20:34] <VCI-Bob> The descendant of Lot, by the way, were Moab and Ammon, who settled in present day Jorday

[20:34] <VCI-Bob> Jordan

[20:35] <VCI-Bob> Notice that it specifically includes "Philistia"

[20:35] <Bezalel-VHL> 2And Jordan has been quiet until recently...

[20:35] <VCI-Bob> which is the Palestinians

[20:35] <michaelm6-VHL> 4i have a student doing a report on the UN, and it is a scary thing when you really look it

[20:35] <VCI-Bob> right Michael, your comment about Iraq joining in later - it fits exactly

[20:35] <red-VHL> the only countries not signing the resolution is Israel and the US

[20:36] <VCI-Bob> Red, the UN General Assembly votes on a similar resolution each year

[20:36] <VCI-Bob> it's become a tradition of sorts, and the vote is always something like 144-1

[20:36] <red-VHL> oh, forgive me, I am a new student

[20:37] <VCI-Bob> that's OK :)

[20:37] <VCI-Bob> nothing to forgive for :)

[20:37] <VCI-Bob> yes, red, it's a shameful action by the UN which is harshly anti-Israel

[20:37] <michaelm6-VHL> 4bob, have you ever seen the Quest bible

[20:37] <VCI-Bob> just as the Bible foretold

[20:37] <VCI-Bob> no, Michael

[20:38] <VCI-Bob> more from Psalm 83: after naming the participants....

[20:38] <michaelm6-VHL> 4my mom got me one for christmas(early present) and it is a really good study bible

[20:38] <michaelm6-VHL> 4go ahead

[20:38] <VCI-Bob> the psalms has specific requests for their disposition

[20:39] <VCI-Bob> that's great, Michael! May the Lord bless you greatly and open your understanding!

[20:39] <VCI-Bob> Remember, this is not just the Psalmist talking, but by the inspiration of the Holy Spirit:

[20:39] <VCI-Bob> Do to them as you did to Midian, as you did to Sisera and Jabin at the river Kishon, (Psalms 83:9 NIV)

[20:39] <VCI-Bob> who perished at Endor and became like refuse on the ground. (Psalms 83:10 NIV)

[20:39] <VCI-Bob> Make their nobles like Oreb and Zeeb, all their princes like Zebah and Zalmunna, (Psalms 83:11 NIV)

[20:40] <VCI-Bob> He cites specific historical occurences when other peoples came against Israel and were decisively defeated

[20:40] <VCI-Bob> and asks God to do that once again

[20:40] <VCI-Bob> what did they have in common?

[20:40] <VCI-Bob> who said, "Let us take possession of the pasturelands of God." (Psalms 83:12 NIV)

[20:41] <VCI-Bob> Just as the Arabs are saying today

[20:41] <VCI-Bob> Make them like tumbleweed, O my God, like chaff before the wind. (Psalms 83:13 NIV)

[20:41] <VCI-Bob> As fire consumes the forest or a flame sets the mountains ablaze, (Psalms 83:14 NIV)

[20:41] <VCI-Bob> so pursue them with your tempest and terrify them with your storm. (Psalms 83:15 NIV)

[20:42] <Bezalel-VHL> 2Ouch!

[20:42] <VCI-Bob> These are things that will happen, folks. This is not just a "prayer request" by the writer, but a foretelling of what the Lord will do

[20:42] <VCI-Bob> and what is the Lord's objective in all this?

[20:43] <VCI-Bob> Cover their faces with shame so that men will seek your name, O LORD. (Psalms 83:16 NIV)

[20:43] <VCI-Bob> May they ever be ashamed and dismayed; may they perish in disgrace. (Psalms 83:17 NIV)

[20:43] <VCI-Bob> Let them know that you, whose name is the LORD-- that you alone are the Most High over all the earth. (Psalms 83:18 NIV)

[20:43] <VCI-Bob> as always, the glory of His great Name

[20:43] <VCI-Bob> so that men everywhere will know that He alone is God

[20:43] <Bezalel-VHL> 2Amen

[20:44] <VCI-Bob> ok, I'm carrying on a monologue here :) comments are welcome anytime :)

[20:44] <michaelm6-VHL> 4im reading

[20:44] <michaelm6-VHL> 4as you go

[20:44] <red-VHL> as a new student, how do I know this hasn't happen already?

[20:44] <VCI-Bob> :)

[20:44] <Bezalel-VHL> 2Do you see my entries, Bob. Or are you ignoring me?

[20:44] <VCI-Bob> Good question, Red

[20:45] <VCI-Bob> not ignoring you, Bez :)

[20:45] <Bezalel-VHL> 2Okay:-)

[20:46] <Bezalel-VHL> 2What is the Biblical name for Iran?

[20:46] <VCI-Bob> Well, Red, I guess one would need to examine all historical military conflicts, both past and modern, to see if the alliance described was ever formulated

[20:46] <VCI-Bob> Persia, Bez

[20:46] <Bezalel-VHL> 2Thanks

[20:46] <VCI-Bob> But, Red, according to my reading, it has not

[20:47] <VCI-Bob> even 1948 and 1967 do not qualify, because Egypt was involved then

[20:47] <Bezalel-VHL> 2That lineup is falling into place today, though.

[20:47] <VCI-Bob> and is not mentioned here

[20:47] <michaelm6-VHL> 4what do you think will happen after the election in isreal

[20:47] <VCI-Bob> yes, Bez, it certainly is

[20:47] <michaelm6-VHL> 4who will be the main players

[20:47] <red-VHL> I have a lot of reading to do!

[20:47] <Bezalel-VHL> 2Even, like you say, with the exclusion of Iran and Egypt.

[20:47] <VCI-Bob> :) Red

[20:48] <VCI-Bob> right, Bez

[20:48] <michaelm6-VHL> 4will it be sharon,or netenyaho i cant spell it

[20:48] <VCI-Bob> Michael, it's more likely to be Netanyahu

[20:48] <michaelm6-VHL> 4doesn't he want to rebuild the temple

[20:48] <VCI-Bob> Sharon leads Likud now, but the Likud feels that he is not electable to PM

[20:48] <VCI-Bob> who, Michael?

[20:49] <michaelm6-VHL> 4netenyahu

[20:49] <VCI-Bob> No, though Netanyahu has a good feel for the religious foundations of the situation, he is very much a secular leader - he has made no statement about the temple that I am aware of

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[20:50] <VCI-Bob> Welcome Annie! You made it in!!!

[20:50] <michaelm6-VHL> 4ok

[20:50] <red-VHL> hi Annie

[20:50] <VCI-Bob> Did you have to use a battering ram on the door to get in?

[20:50] <Bezalel-VHL> 2The current President, though, is religious. Isn't that correct, Bob?

[20:51] <red-VHL> I'm the new one Annie I hope I wasn't the one keeping you out.

[20:51] <VCI-Bob> I guess so, Bez, to some extent, but it depends on how one defines it, I suppose - he is more than some others

[20:51] <Bezalel-VHL> 2But, he doesn't carry much political weight....

[20:52] <VCI-Bob> no, and the "President" position is not supposed to a political position at all

[20:52] <VCI-Bob> it's more ceremonial, and a person who attempts to find consensus and lend stability, to my understanding

[20:52] <Bezalel-VHL> 2But, as a ceremonial figure head, maybe he would show interest in rebuilding the Temple.

[20:52] <VCI-Bob> he is not supposed to take partison positions

[20:52] <VCI-Bob> partisan

[20:53] <Annie-VHL> Hi all, no red I'm sure you had nothing to do with it

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[20:53] <michaelm6-VHL> 4i saw last night that the european union is getting ready to add more countries, do you think this is the revived roman empire

[20:53] <VCI-Bob> Bez, the rebuilding of the temple is a topic that most people in Israel don't even touch

[20:54] <VCI-Bob> Michael, it's looking more like it every day

[20:54] <VCI-Bob> let me get a story for you on that topic.....

[20:54] <michaelm6-VHL> 4is the antichrist supposed to come out of that , or the middle east

[20:54] <VCI-Bob> "EUROPEAN UNION SUMMIT COMPARED TO U.S. CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION"

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[20:55] <red-VHL> what of the critics of the EU are they strong enough to stop any actions

[20:55] <VCI-Bob> The Washington Post reported: "To understand the historic nature of the European Union summit convening Thursday in this Mediterranean city, think back to America's Constitutional Convention of 1787 and the seemingly intractable issues that divided the delegates who gathered that summer in Philadelphia. There were 13 American states back then, compared to 15 EU nations. The old Articles of Confederation that bound the states together jealously guarded the sovereignty of each, and

[20:55] <VCI-Bob> there was widespread apprehension of any monolithic federal government with its own bureaucracy and chief executive. The main dispute then--as now in Europe--was between the larger states and the little ones

[20:55] <michaelm6-VHL> 4i saw that one on jvim.com

[20:55] <VCI-Bob> Yes, Michael, that's where I just got that story from also

[20:55] <VCI-Bob> Red, probably not

[20:56] <VCI-Bob> I remember many years ago that Bible teachers were saying there would be a revived Roman Empire of sorts

[20:56] Bezalel-VHL [~Bezalel-VHL@proxy1.talkcity.com] has joined #VHL-Prophecy

[20:56] <VCI-Bob> and now it is happening

[20:56] <VCI-Bob> Bez made it back in! :)

[20:56] <Bezalel-VHL> How rude. I got booted all the way outta IE.

[20:56] <michaelm6-VHL> 4i had a teacher that told me a lot of things that are happening today

[20:57] <VCI-Bob> The EU is becoming more like a single nation every day

[20:57] <VCI-Bob> economically, militarily, judicially

[20:57] <michaelm6-VHL> 4i have to go for a little while, hope to be back in a minute

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[20:58] <Bezalel-VHL> 2Tough night for Talk City.

[20:58] <VCI-Bob> Ouch, Bez!

[20:58] <VCI-Bob> Yes, it is - poor Annie got tossed also

[20:58] <VCI-Bob> we need to find a better chat client for these sessions

[20:58] <Bezalel-VHL> 2I noticed a note about VHL outages between Dec 7 and 9.

[20:58] <VCI-Bob> I've been looking around, but have not found one that meets our requirements yet

[20:59] <Bezalel-VHL> 2It usually works better than this.

[20:59] <VCI-Bob> Yes, Bez, I don't know what that is all about - I suppose the transition to the new ownership

[20:59] Annie-VHL [~Annie-VHL@proxy3.talkcity.com] has joined #VHL-Prophecy

[20:59] <Bezalel-VHL> 2I think the "net" might be having problems tonight. My home page is even coming up slow.

[21:00] <VCI-Bob> Stan sent a letter today regarding VHL - I'm going to post it on my "VHL update" page later

[21:00] <VCI-Bob> Welcome back, Annie!

[21:00] <Bezalel-VHL> 2Are you in NJ tonight, Bob?

[21:00] <red-VHL> I guess I'm having beginners luck I even got on quickly

[21:00] <VCI-Bob> Yes, I am, Bez - the Hampton Inn, Meadowlands, room 509

[21:00] <VCI-Bob> Good for you, Red! :)

[21:00] <Annie-VHL> This is too crazy tonight but I'm persistant LOL

[21:00] <red-VHL> you go girl

[21:00] <Bezalel-VHL> 2Same here, Annie.....:-)

[21:00] <VCI-Bob> Hang in there Annie!

[21:01] <VCI-Bob> OK - since there is such a smallish group, let's open it up for Q & A

[21:01] <VCI-Bob> whaddya say?

[21:01] <Bezalel-VHL> 2OK

[21:02] <VCI-Bob> that means.... you have to provide the Q :)

[21:02] <Bezalel-VHL> 2What question do you want, Bob?

[21:02] <Bezalel-VHL> 2:-)

[21:02] <VCI-Bob> :)

[21:02] <red-VHL> my sister is reading up on HAARP, do you know anything about it or it's effects?

[21:02] <VCI-Bob> Unless you'd like to do a Bible Quiz

[21:02] <VCI-Bob> HAARP? I'm not familiar with that

[21:02] <Bezalel-VHL> 2I'd flunk!

[21:02] <VCI-Bob> what does it stand for?

[21:03] <VCI-Bob> nah, Bez, no flunking

[21:03] <Annie-VHL> I wanted to tell you that I got a video from my nephew in the state of Wash. it is from Friends of Jerusalem hosted by Raabbi Yechiel Eckstein telli9ng that he is coming to Florida in the spring to raise money for the poor in Jerusalem

[21:03] <red-VHL> high frequency arurol radar puls- I think

[21:03] <VCI-Bob> No, Red, I don't know about that

[21:04] <VCI-Bob> Annie, I've heard him speak a few times

[21:04] <Annie-VHL> I have something on HAARP somewhere, I think they are located in

[21:04] <red-VHL> I'm forgetting an a word, anyway it has to do with the military and communications. However the possibilities of use are scarry

[21:04] <Annie-VHL> alaska

[21:05] <VCI-Bob> What is scary about it, Red?

[21:05] <Annie-VHL> If I'm not mistaken has to do with controling our weather

[21:05] <VCI-Bob> Ha! Fat chance of that - I think that is something God reserves for his own use :)

[21:06] <red-VHL> yes in alaska. It is being tested to see if weather among other thing can be controlled. as i understand it

[21:06] <Bezalel-VHL> 2But, you know how prideful we can get.

[21:06] <Annie-VHL> I'm very serious, they send off these explosions into the jet stream and have figured a way to do this

[21:06] <red-VHL> all in a days work!

[21:07] <VCI-Bob> Well, like everything else, once man takes control, we manage to mess it up bigtime - it's human pride, like Bez said

[21:07] <red-VHL> I heard that alaska hasn't got snow yet!

[21:07] <Annie-VHL> I heard that too but they can have our cold it's about 8 here right now

[21:08] <red-VHL> I like the snow we got 3 inches today

[21:08] <VCI-Bob> We do know that during the times of God's final judgment on the earth, major upheavals in the weathern patterns will occur - it's described in several places

[21:08] <Bezalel-VHL> 2We're supposed to have snow this weekend.

[21:09] <VCI-Bob> even, perhaps, a flucuation in the rotation of the earth, according to Isaiah, and Jesus

[21:09] <Annie-VHL> that's right Bob oh by the way who's the winner in the presidential race ????

[21:09] <VCI-Bob> which will disrupt the normal seasonal patterns

[21:09] <Bezalel-VHL> 2The Lord's choice.

[21:09] <VCI-Bob> you're asking me, Annie??? :)

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[21:10] <Bezalel-VHL> 2Yeah, how would anyone from Florida know...;-)

[21:10] <VCI-Bob> and... cause huge upheavals in the oceans

[21:10] <VCI-Bob> Welcome, Jerry!

[21:10] <Annie-VHL> Yeah well who do you think? I know it will be God's choice

[21:10] <jerry-VHL> Shalom all, only got a short time, but wanted to say hi.

[21:10] <Annie-VHL> Shalom Jerry

[21:11] <Bezalel-VHL> 2Hi Jerry

[21:11] <red-VHL> hi jerry

[21:11] <VCI-Bob> I don't know - I have this bad feeling that somehow Gore will pull it out

[21:11] <red-VHL> Gore, Clinton all the same

[21:11] <jerry-VHL> That is so strange, I have had that same feeling. I don't know how though

[21:11] <Annie-VHL> We-l-l-l-l-l I SURE HOPE NOT

[21:11] <Bezalel-VHL> 2Actually, Gore may be a way to revitalize the Christian right.....

[21:12] <red-VHL> how so

[21:12] <red-VHL> how so?

[21:12] <jerry-VHL> What Christian right?

[21:12] <Annie-VHL> I don't think so

[21:12] <Bezalel-VHL> 2Bring the Church to the forefront of American power/politics.

[21:12] <VCI-Bob> Bez, with all due respect, I don't think that's what we need anyway

[21:12] <Annie-VHL> No-no-no he's been around Clinton too much for that

[21:13] <Bezalel-VHL> 2You don't think the Church should move out front in America?

[21:13] <red-VHL> if you mean that the christian's will speak out against Gore

[21:13] <VCI-Bob> no, not in the way that many people see it - yes, as a prophetic voice, but no, not in an attempt to seize political power

[21:13] <VCI-Bob> there is a big difference

[21:14] <Bezalel-VHL> 2Okay, I'll buy that. But, if Gore does win, it is the Lord's choice.

[21:14] <VCI-Bob> People often point to our past as an example, when men in government feared the Lord.... but the difference is this:

[21:14] <Annie-VHL> Yes I think the church will come out if we repent as a nation and pray for God's wil

[21:15] <red-VHL> my husband just did a report on us gov. and religion. I don't see to many obsticals for Gore on that respect

[21:15] <VCI-Bob> at that time, they reflected the consensus - no, not all were Christians, but the consensus of the populace was that God's laws had validity

[21:15] <jerry-VHL> The Christians are so fractured they need to unite in the true God. Here we have Gore and Clinton using the church scenes to thier advantage. Sickning

[21:16] <VCI-Bob> today, that consensus does not exist, and any "Christian" attempt to grab political power is going to be an attempt to impose God's laws on an unwilling populace

[21:16] <Annie-VHL> : Not by might, Nor by Power but BY MY SPIRIT SAYS THE LORD

[21:17] <jerry-VHL> God is being used by politics - Look at Leiberman

[21:17] <Bezalel-VHL> 2The Christians could be gathered together, and strengthened by resistance to a Gore administration.

[21:17] <red-VHL> Clinton are interested in unified religion throughout the would/ they preach tolorence and look to silence religious "fanaticism"

[21:17] <VCI-Bob> We must discern the times - this is the "end game" folks, and we must approach things accordingly

[21:17] <jerry-VHL> The Christiians are supporting the Gore administration

[21:17] <Bezalel-VHL> 2Which Christians, Jerry?

[21:17] <VCI-Bob> Yes, Red - that will be the trend more and more

[21:18] <Annie-VHL> Why?

[21:18] <jerry-VHL> Those who worship the True God among us are growing smaller in number

[21:18] <red-VHL> christians and gore should not be in the same sentence

[21:18] <Annie-VHL> I think so too red

[21:18] <jerry-VHL> I heard that the majority of Catholic and many various sects supported Cllinton and Gore

[21:19] <jerry-VHL> That is accurate Red, but not factual.

[21:19] <Bezalel-VHL> 2Are they the Church, or is the spirtual Church less denominational, like Bob said.

[21:19] <Annie-VHL> My mother used to sy "Believe half of what you see and half of what you hear

[21:19] <jerry-VHL> They say they are the church.

[21:19] <Bezalel-VHL> 2And ignore the other half, Annie?

[21:20] <VCI-Bob> Many times, in Bible prophecy, as God surveys the increasing rebellion in the world against Him, he dares and taunts them to rise up together against Him

[21:20] <red-VHL> my husband made a good point. he said, " judge not" and " we should pray for gore" ouch

[21:20] <Annie-VHL> LOL

[21:20] <jerry-VHL> Let's face Christ said when I return shall I find faith on the earth. Meaning perhaps we would not be a majority.

[21:20] <VCI-Bob> So, if Clinton, and Gore, and that crowd want to rebel against God - let them. It's coming, and hand-wringing is not going to stop it

[21:21] <Bezalel-VHL> 2I think that is what I was trying to say. Just wasn't doing a very good job of it, Bob. :-)

[21:21] <jerry-VHL> We must make many judgments based on the truth, but we must not judge the condition of a man's heart or position with God as this is God;s juridiciton.

[21:21] <VCI-Bob> :)

[21:22] <Annie-VHL> Right jerry

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[21:22] <Bezalel-VHL> 2I kinda look at a Gore presidency as a "trial" period. Kinda like 40 years in the desert.

[21:22] <VCI-Bob> Right, we cannot see a man's heart - we see his actions - like a man who enthusiastically supports the killing of unborn children

[21:23] <Rich-VHL> 7hi you all

[21:23] <red-VHL> I walk a fine line and must remind myself that a man's heart is not for me to judge

[21:23] <VCI-Bob> Hello there Rich!

[21:23] <Bezalel-VHL> 2Hi Rich.

[21:23] <jerry-VHL> How can any person stand for abortion and say God or use the church for photo ops. That's is scary to me

[21:23] <jerry-VHL> Sahlom Rick

[21:23] <Rich-VHL> 7how is everyone tonight

[21:23] <Annie-VHL> I was told a long time ago that God will separate HIS own out from every religion

[21:23] <Annie-VHL> Shalom Rich

[21:24] <Bezalel-VHL> 2Seeing Slick Willy stand up in churches at the end of the campaign was more than I could take.

[21:24] <VCI-Bob> Yes, Jerry - it's not "judging" to hold our leaders accountable to God's standards - look at what John the Baptist said about the political leaders of his time

[21:24] <jerry-VHL> Yes Annie, many shall come from all religions of the world, races, political pursuasions

[21:24] <Rich-VHL> 7Annie, Bez, jerry red Bob not too many here tonight

[21:25] <Bezalel-VHL> 2The chat room is being tempermental, Rich.

[21:25] <red-VHL> my husband jim is here too

[21:25] <VCI-Bob> No, Rich, apparently internet congestion kept people out

[21:25] <Bezalel-VHL> 2Hi Jim.

[21:25] <VCI-Bob> Hey there Jim!

[21:25] <Rich-VHL> 7I know what you mean Bez

[21:25] <Annie-VHL> Hi Jim

[21:25] <Rich-VHL> 7hello Jim

[21:25] <red-VHL> he says hi

[21:25] <jerry-VHL> Shalom Jim

[21:25] <Annie-VHL> Where are you from red?

[21:26] <Rich-VHL> 7I had a hard time getting in too Bob

[21:26] <VCI-Bob> Jim, do you call her "Red" also? :)

[21:26] <red-VHL> indiana

[21:26] <VCI-Bob> We are glad you persisted, Rich! :)

[21:26] <Annie-VHL> N.Y. here

[21:26] <red-VHL> no you don't want to know what he calls me

[21:26] <jerry-VHL> The religious leaders of today do not want to step on any toes. They seem to be more interested in keeping the pews filled.

[21:26] <VCI-Bob> LOL

[21:26] <Rich-VHL> 7thank you

[21:26] <VCI-Bob> I bet he calls you "Beautiful" :)

[21:26] <red-VHL> amen jerry- from jim

[21:27] <VCI-Bob> RIght Jim?

[21:27] <Rich-VHL> 7I won't take that bet Bob

[21:27] <Bezalel-VHL> 2You must have auburn hair, huh, Red?

[21:27] <red-VHL> he said he has no choice- he is right

[21:27] <VCI-Bob> LOL what a romantic :) I better be quiet before I get Jim in trouble :)

[21:28] <red-VHL> why yes i do bez

[21:28] <Bezalel-VHL> 2I used to be known as Flame, for my red hair.

[21:28] <Bezalel-VHL> 2Or my hot temper.

[21:28] <jerry-VHL> It will not win congregants to speak about our need to support Israel. The churches of today in general are oblivious to prophetic truth

[21:28] <VCI-Bob> ok - folks - back to Bible prophecy :)

[21:29] <red-VHL> welcome fellow red head bez

[21:29] <jerry-VHL> I love red hair

[21:29] <Bezalel-VHL> 2:-)

[21:29] <VCI-Bob> I liked that quote from Peter that Stan used on the front page

[21:29] <red-VHL> sorry about getting off track bob

[21:29] <VCI-Bob> :) that's ok, Red - we do it all the time :)

[21:29] <Rich-VHL> 7I have a granddaughter with the most beautifull red hair

[21:29] <Annie-VHL> that's right jerry lots of the churches are dead to the signs of the times

[21:29] <Rich-VHL> 7she is 2

[21:30] <VCI-Bob> One thing I like about Peter's quote is the sense of him being a personal eyewitness to the the events of Jesus:

[21:30] <VCI-Bob> We did not follow cleverly invented stories when we told you about the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but we were eyewitnesses of his majesty. (2 Peter 1:16 NIV)

[21:30] <jerry-VHL> Annie, they don't want to hear it.

[21:30] <VCI-Bob> Unlike many who say the gospel accounts are fabrications, here we have a first person testimony

[21:31] <Annie-VHL> Might be scared to preach about it as the people might run out the front door

[21:31] <VCI-Bob> and then he recounts what happened on the "Mount of Transfiguration":

[21:31] <VCI-Bob> For he received honor and glory from God the Father when the voice came to him from the Majestic Glory, saying, "This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased." (2 Peter 1:17 NIV)

[21:31] <VCI-Bob> We ourselves heard this voice that came from heaven when we were with him on the sacred mountain. (2 Peter 1:18 NIV)

[21:31] <jerry-VHL> I delivered a Christians for Israel newspaper to all the churches in my area, some 250 churches with a note stating that if they would want to know more contact me. Not one response.

[21:31] <Rich-VHL> 7when I try to talk to even my dad he doesn't even want to discuss Israel and he is a good christian

[21:32] <VCI-Bob> Yeah, I don't get it either

[21:32] <jerry-VHL> Scary Rick

[21:32] <Annie-VHL> Better get him back in his Bible Rich

[21:32] <Rich-VHL> 7I know I'm trying

[21:33] <VCI-Bob> Well, actually, I do get it - Churches are caught up in their own affairs - their building projects, or all their "programs"

[21:33] <Bezalel-VHL> 2I was finally saved when I read the prophesies and saw the relation to today's Israel.

[21:33] <VCI-Bob> He, that's cool Bez :)

[21:33] <VCI-Bob> Hey

[21:33] <Annie-VHL> that's rightr Bob so sad

[21:33] <Rich-VHL> 7Bob the verses I like are in I think 1st John where he says how he even handled Jesus

[21:34] <Rich-VHL> 7and witnessed His Holiness

[21:34] <Bezalel-VHL> 2Whenever I start testifying, I always tell others to read the Prophets. You can't deny the love and caring of God Almighty.

[21:34] <jerry-VHL> That is neat. Bez. When God brought me to the understanding I was in awe and could hardly contain myself.

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[21:35] <Rich-VHL> 7me too jerry

[21:35] <VCI-Bob> Yes, Rich, me too - let me find them for us

[21:35] <VCI-Bob> Welcome, Dove!

[21:35] <dove-VHL> hello

[21:35] <Bezalel-VHL> 2Hi Dove.

[21:35] <Rich-VHL> 7hello blessed Dove

[21:35] <VCI-Bob> That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked at and our hands have touched--this we proclaim concerning the Word of life. (1 John 1:1 NIV)

[21:35] <red-VHL> I hate to leave but it is past my bedtime. thanks for the chat . God's blessing to all of you

[21:35] <VCI-Bob> NIght Red! Thanks for coming, and join us again!

[21:35] <VCI-Bob> God bless!

[21:35] <jerry-VHL> I think it just sealed it for me, because I could relate to being Israel in my life and the great mercy He has for me. I guess I could see it when I understood it thruoug Israel.

[21:36] <red-VHL> I will!

[21:36] <Rich-VHL> 7Isn't that something Bob

[21:36] <Bezalel-VHL> 2Night Red and Jim.

[21:36] <VCI-Bob> The life appeared; we have seen it and testify to it, and we proclaim to you the eternal life, which was with the Father and has appeared to us. (1 John 1:2 NIV)

[21:36] <Annie-VHL> Good-night red and Shalom Dove

[21:36] <VCI-Bob> We proclaim to you what we have seen and heard, so that you also may have fellowship with us. And our fellowship is with the Father and with his Son, Jesus Christ. (1 John 1:3 NIV)

[21:36] <jerry-VHL> Shalom Red

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[21:36] <Rich-VHL> 7by by red and Jim

[21:36] <dove-VHL> Hi! Bez. Annie Bob ,Rich, Jerry. Oh! II love you all , and I thank God for you too

[21:36] <VCI-Bob> Yes, it is, Rich - amazing words - because John experience the amazing presence of the Lord Jesus

[21:36] <jerry-VHL> Shalom dove

[21:37] <jerry-VHL> Shalom Jim too

[21:37] <dove-VHL> love red and jim

[21:37] <Bezalel-VHL> 2How did the visit with the Doc go today, Dove?

[21:37] <Rich-VHL> 7I know he did Bob how can anyone deny His existance after reading those words

[21:37] <dove-VHL> Well, I am still going to have the surgery, but next week.

[21:38] <Bezalel-VHL> 2My prayers remain with you, Dove.

[21:38] <VCI-Bob> Yes, Rich, if one examines it historically, with an open heart, there is no other conclusion that Jesus was who He claimed to be

[21:38] <Annie-VHL> Mine too each day!!!

[21:39] <VCI-Bob> and He was raised from the dead to validate His claims to be the eternal Author of Life!

[21:39] <jerry-VHL> Dove God be with you as our prayers are

[21:39] <Rich-VHL> 7Amen Bob

[21:39] <Annie-VHL> Amen Bob

[21:39] <dove-VHL> They are so messed up at the County Hospital, they couldn't even find my chart today, or the TAR referal that had came back approved until I got home. Then the Hospital called me and told me to come back next week.

[21:40] <VCI-Bob> Not only that, but His resurrection validates His claim to the the future coming Lord who will judge the world in righteousness

[21:40] <Rich-VHL> 7its a good thing your not critical huh dove

[21:40] <Bezalel-VHL> 2Real confidence builder, huh, Dove. But, you have the best Physician on your side. :-)

[21:40] <dove-VHL> But I am doing my best not to loose it with the Drs. Jesus is the only reason I didn't blow it today

[21:40] <Rich-VHL> 7wonderful words of hope Bob

[21:40] <jerry-VHL> Dove All is in God's hands, we mustn't look at the circumstances or we would all be just a little frazzled

[21:41] <Rich-VHL> 7very good dove

[21:41] <VCI-Bob> When we have nothing else to hold onto, we call out to the Lord, who will never disappoint us

[21:42] <VCI-Bob> His mercy endures forever

[21:42] <Bezalel-VHL> 2Amen and Amen.

[21:42] <Annie-VHL> Gotta go now, been long day. God Bless you All and keep you in HIS CAre

[21:42] <dove-VHL> Yes! and I truly thank all you my dear friends for all your support and prayers, and most of all the Promise I have in Jesus

[21:42] <Bezalel-VHL> 2Night Annie.

[21:42] <jerry-VHL> I have been there so much in my life where there was nothing, no one, and the world holds no answers. Only Jesus

[21:42] <VCI-Bob> Night, Annie! Shalom

[21:42] <Rich-VHL> 7another set of verses I like real well are at the end of St. John where Jesus prepares breakfast for the apostles

[21:42] <dove-VHL> I Love you Annie

[21:42] <VCI-Bob> yeah, Rich :)

[21:42] <jerry-VHL> Shalom Annie

[21:43] <Rich-VHL> 7have a good night Annie

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[21:43] <dove-VHL> Thank you dear Sister

[21:43] <VCI-Bob> fried fish - my wife Bo had "St Peters fish" when we were at a restaurant in Israel

[21:44] <Rich-VHL> 7i wish I could do that Bob

[21:45] <Rich-VHL> 7I will someday

[21:45] <VCI-Bob> Well, Rich, it's not too hard for the Lord :)

[21:45] <Rich-VHL> 7maybe I can fix breakfast for Jesus and you all one day

[21:45] <VCI-Bob> all ya need is a passport and a ticket - a couple of pieces of paper :)

[21:45] <Rich-VHL> 7and a believing wife too

[21:46] <jerry-VHL> All things in God's time.

[21:46] <Rich-VHL> 7she is still an atheist

[21:46] <jerry-VHL> Rich, I am sorry to hear that.

[21:47] <VCI-Bob> Take courage, Rich - God hears prayer

[21:47] <jerry-VHL> Is she a good person, do you see and opening

[21:47] <Rich-VHL> 7I know that one day she will come around

[21:47] <Bezalel-VHL> 2Keep praying....it took about 20 years for me to wake up....

[21:47] <jerry-VHL> That is good.

[21:47] <dove-VHL> You know what? Today I met a fellow at the downtown Bus terminal, and we were reading the Bible out loud together, and I was telling him about how I was watching the news and all the things I was seeing made me weep for the people, because there is going to be alot of people who saddly enough may not make it. Like the word of God says; "As in the days of Noah, so will the coming of the Son Of Man be." I am really burdened by this.

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[21:47] <jerry-VHL> I have been married for 24 years and still nothing. I wonder sometimes

[21:47] <VCI-Bob> Yeah, and Bez was a tough nut to crack, by all accounts! LOLOL (Well, by his own account anyway)

[21:48] <VCI-Bob> Yes, Dove

[21:48] <Bezalel-VHL> 2You better believe it, Bob. They wrote the song "What to do with a drunken sailor" about me.

[21:48] <dove-VHL> Alot of people are truly lost in the deception of this world

[21:49] <VCI-Bob> there is no person too "lost" for the Lord

[21:49] <VCI-Bob> yes, Dove, that's true

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[21:50] <jerry-VHL> What do you mean?

[21:50] <Rich-VHL> 7I think I just got booted

[21:50] <dove-VHL> I know this, and I keep my hope for people because I know that the Lord would that No One perish, but that all come to know salvation, but He wont force it on them

[21:50] <Rich-VHL> 7but i'm back now

[21:51] <Rich-VHL> 7I think can anyone see me

[21:51] <Bezalel-VHL> 2I see you Rich

[21:51] <jerry-VHL> Rich you were lost and now you are found Praise God

[21:51] <VCI-Bob> I'm not sure what the question is, Jerry

[21:51] <Bezalel-VHL> 2ROFL Jerry

[21:51] <VCI-Bob> :)

[21:51] <Rich-VHL> 7great Bez thanks jerry

[21:52] <jerry-VHL> Bez What does Rofl mean

[21:52] <Bezalel-VHL> 2Rolling on the floor laughing.

[21:52] <jerry-VHL> never mind

[21:52] <jerry-VHL> I get it.

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[21:52] <Rich-VHL> 7love it Bez

[21:52] <VCI-Bob> Welcome, Dex!

[21:52] <Dex-VHL> hi

[21:53] <Rich-VHL> 7hello Dex

[21:53] <jerry-VHL> Shalom Dex

[21:53] <dove-VHL> Well I just needed to share that with you, but know that I most certainly will continue to pray for them and for God's mercy on us all:)

[21:55] <Rich-VHL> 7I was wondering if I got booted again

[21:55] <VCI-Bob> We are here :)

[21:55] <dove-VHL> you did not say anything wrong

[21:55] <Rich-VHL> 7thinking huh

[21:55] <Bezalel-VHL> 2Net congestion. Maybe we need a cold pill.

[21:55] <VCI-Bob> sometimes the screen freezes and stops scrolling

[21:55] <VCI-Bob> yeah, a net decongestant

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[21:56] <Rich-VHL> 7make a lot of money on that one Bob

[21:56] <Bezalel-VHL> 2Aaaahchooooo!

[21:56] <VCI-Bob> :)

[21:56] <jerry-VHL> It's happening again

[21:57] <VCI-Bob> OK, did you guys get your money's worth tonight? We didn't cover much prophecy really

[21:57] <Rich-VHL> 7Bob what other verses can you come up with that proclaims the deity of Jesus

[21:57] <Rich-VHL> 7by the apostles

[21:57] <VCI-Bob> Old Testament, or New, Rich?

[21:57] <VCI-Bob> ok - let me look

[21:57] <Rich-VHL> 7new

[21:58] <dove-VHL> that's a tough one to answer I guess, but someting like that, in my opinion needs alot of prayer to the Lord for guidence, and wisdom, before anything gets broken up. Because I know that God will be able to fix anything

[21:58] <Rich-VHL> 7Amen dove

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[21:58] <VCI-Bob> here is one

[21:58] <VCI-Bob> Then he said to Thomas, "Put your finger here; see my hands. Reach out your hand and put it into my side. Stop doubting and believe." (John 20:27 NIV)

[21:58] <VCI-Bob> Thomas said to him, "My Lord and my God!" (John 20:28 NIV)

[21:58] <VCI-Bob> Then Jesus told him, "Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed." (John 20:29 NIV)

[21:59] <VCI-Bob> Notice, Thomas called Jesus "My God" and Jesus accepted the worship

[21:59] <Rich-VHL> 7I love those too

[21:59] <VCI-Bob> and commended him for believing

[21:59] <Rich-VHL> 7I noticed Bob

[22:00] <VCI-Bob> Philip said, "Lord, show us the Father and that will be enough for us." (John 14:8 NIV)

[22:00] <VCI-Bob> Jesus answered: "Don't you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, 'Show us the Father'? (John 14:9 NIV)

[22:00] <Rich-VHL> 7Jesus is God just as His Father is God

[22:00] <jerry-VHL> I know my marriage is not the topic for tonight. But prayers are always welcome.

[22:00] <Rich-VHL> 7you got em jerry

[22:00] <dove-VHL> Jerry, just continue in fervernt prayer to the Lord, I will pray too that the Lord will quickly resolve and renew this union

[22:01] <jerry-VHL> I need too say goodnight to all, shalom I was only going to sit in for a short time, many blessing to all.

[22:01] <Dex-VHL> 3I will pray for you tonight.

[22:01] <VCI-Bob> Shalom, Jerry - God bless you

[22:01] <Bezalel-VHL> 2My wife survived 28 years of my antics.....and pray is a very powerful force.

[22:01] <Bezalel-VHL> 2prayer

[22:01] <VCI-Bob> yes, Bez

[22:01] <Rich-VHL> 7God Bless jerry

[22:02] <Rich-VHL> 7LOL Bez

[22:02] <jerry-VHL> Thank you Bob, I would appreciate it. Take care all

[22:02] <Bezalel-VHL> 2Night Jerry.

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[22:02] <Dex-VHL> 3Bob Do yall discuss prophecy every night?

[22:02] <VCI-Bob> My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all ; no one can snatch them out of my Father's hand. (John 10:29 NIV)

[22:02] <VCI-Bob> I and the Father are one." (John 10:30 NIV)

[22:02] <VCI-Bob> Again the Jews picked up stones to stone him, (John 10:31 NIV)

[22:02] <VCI-Bob> but Jesus said to them, "I have shown you many great miracles from the Father. For which of these do you stone me?" (John 10:32 NIV)

[22:02] <VCI-Bob> "We are not stoning you for any of these," replied the Jews, "but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God." (John 10:33 NIV)

[22:02] <dove-VHL> I love you jerry "Lord thank You for Jerry give strength to jerry and a peace that only You can give Jesus, in Your name ,Amen

[22:02] <VCI-Bob> Dex, the organized chats are Monday and Thursday at 8 PM

[22:03] <Dex-VHL> 3Sorry I arrived so late.

[22:03] <VCI-Bob> Monday is Stan from Jerusalem, and the emphasis in that chat is the political situation there, but he touches on prophecy also

[22:04] <Bezalel-VHL> 2Hard to separate Israel and prophecy. :-)

[22:04] <VCI-Bob> Notice, Rich, that when Jesus said "I and the Father are one" - the listeners knew very well what he was claiming

[22:04] <Rich-VHL> 7yes they did

[22:04] <Rich-VHL> 7but He was also a man

[22:05] <Rich-VHL> 7and they couldn't figure that

[22:05] <VCI-Bob> Here is another:

[22:05] <VCI-Bob> Your father Abraham rejoiced at the thought of seeing my day; he saw it and was glad." (John 8:56 NIV)

[22:05] <VCI-Bob> "You are not yet fifty years old," the Jews said to him, "and you have seen Abraham!" (John 8:57 NIV)

[22:05] <VCI-Bob> "I tell you the truth," Jesus answered, "before Abraham was born, I am!" (John 8:58 NIV)

[22:05] <VCI-Bob> At this, they picked up stones to stone him, but Jesus hid himself, slipping away from the temple grounds. (John 8:59 NIV)

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[22:05] <VCI-Bob> He tells them that Abraham was glad to see Jesus

[22:06] <dove-VHL> Oh! I love that when Jesus said that.." I and the Father are One" Awesome, just Awesome. Makes me want to sit up and listen:)

[22:06] <Bezalel-VHL> 2That one just hit me between the eyes, Bob.

[22:06] <Rich-VHL> 7Yes and Jesus tells us that no man has seen the Father at any time

[22:06] <VCI-Bob> and when Jesus said "I AM" - he was claiming to the the eternal, self-existant God of the universe

[22:06] <VCI-Bob> which evoked the usual reaction - they wanted to stone Him

[22:07] <VCI-Bob> Yeah, Bez :)

[22:07] <Rich-VHL> 7how do you think Bob are Jesus and the Father one and the same

[22:07] <VCI-Bob> Yes, Dove, Aweseom

[22:07] <VCI-Bob> Yes, they are one, but also distinct - Father and Son

[22:08] <Rich-VHL> 7me too thats what I think

[22:08] <VCI-Bob> The Father sent the Son

[22:08] <Bezalel-VHL> 2And the Holy Spirit.

[22:08] <VCI-Bob> yes

[22:08] <Rich-VHL> 7when Jesus said that He and the Father were one I think He ment that they were united i

[22:08] <dove-VHL> Bob, didn't Jesus say, " If you've seen Me , you've seen the Father?" after or before that statement?

[22:09] <Rich-VHL> 7in the same purpose

[22:09] <VCI-Bob> Yes, He did, Dove

[22:09] <VCI-Bob> here is another

[22:09] <VCI-Bob> So, because Jesus was doing these things on the Sabbath, the Jews persecuted him. (John 5:16 NIV)

[22:09] <VCI-Bob> Jesus said to them, "My Father is always at his work to this very day, and I, too, am working." (John 5:17 NIV)

[22:09] <VCI-Bob> For this reason the Jews tried all the harder to kill him; not only was he breaking the Sabbath, but he was even calling God his own Father, making himself equal with God. (John 5:18 NIV)

[22:09] <VCI-Bob> Jesus gave them this answer: "I tell you the truth, the Son can do nothing by himself; he can do only what he sees his Father doing, because whatever the Father does the Son also does. (John 5:19 NIV)

[22:09] <VCI-Bob> For the Father loves the Son and shows him all he does. Yes, to your amazement he will show him even greater things than these. (John 5:20 NIV)

[22:09] <VCI-Bob> For just as the Father raises the dead and gives them life, even so the Son gives life to whom he is pleased to give it. (John 5:21 NIV)

[22:09] <VCI-Bob> Moreover, the Father judges no one, but has entrusted all judgment to the Son, (John 5:22 NIV)

[22:09] <VCI-Bob> that all may honor the Son just as they honor the Father. He who does not honor the Son does not honor the Father, who sent him. (John 5:23 NIV)

[22:10] <Rich-VHL> 7Amen

[22:10] <VCI-Bob> Notice that Jesus said that all people should give the same honor to the Son as to the Father - that is, worship Him as God

[22:11] <Rich-VHL> 7Jesus is the Word of God

[22:11] <VCI-Bob> and that if you do not worship Jesus as God, you don't know the Father either

[22:11] <Rich-VHL> 7Amen Amen

[22:11] <Bezalel-VHL> 2I'd never noticed

[22:11] <dove-VHL> "Praise the Lord"

[22:12] <Bezalel-VHL> 2"the Father judges no one, but has entrusted all judgment to the Son"

[22:12] <VCI-Bob> yes, Bez....

[22:12] <Bezalel-VHL> 2Is that reaffirmation of salvation through the Lord Jesus, Bob?

[22:12] <VCI-Bob> and the reason is given a little later:

[22:12] <VCI-Bob> For as the Father has life in himself, so he has granted the Son to have life in himself. (John 5:26 NIV)

[22:12] <VCI-Bob> And he has given him authority to judge because he is the Son of Man. (John 5:27 NIV)

[22:13] <VCI-Bob> The reason the Father has given all judgment to the Son is that "he is the Son of Man" - he took on human form, he lived as a man, he endured the sins of mankind

[22:13] <Rich-VHL> 7I can't remember

[22:14] <Rich-VHL> 7and died for all the world

[22:14] <VCI-Bob> Yes, Bez, that there is no salvation except through the Son

[22:14] <Rich-VHL> 7so we don't have to

[22:14] <VCI-Bob> right, Rich

[22:14] <VCI-Bob> Who, being in very nature God, did not consider equality with God something to be grasped, (Philippians 2:6 NIV)

[22:14] <VCI-Bob> but made himself nothing, taking the very nature of a servant, being made in human likeness. (Philippians 2:7 NIV)

[22:14] <VCI-Bob> And being found in appearance as a man, he humbled himself and became obedient to death-- even death on a cross! (Philippians 2:8 NIV)

[22:14] <VCI-Bob> Therefore God exalted him to the highest place and gave him the name that is above every name, (Philippians 2:9 NIV)

[22:14] <Rich-VHL> 7oh the Blessd hope we have in Jesus

[22:15] <Bezalel-VHL> 2I'm sitting here in awe, Bob. It has never been this clear.

[22:15] <dove-VHL> OH! I just LOVE it, Thank You Father for Jesus, and Thank You Jesus, for the Holy Spirit, Thank You so much Lord!

[22:15] <VCI-Bob> Praise the Lord!

[22:16] <Rich-VHL> 7Glory to God in the Highest

[22:16] <Rich-VHL> 7Praise His Hloy Name

[22:16] <Bezalel-VHL> 2Now I'm dancing in my chair....:-)

[22:16] <VCI-Bob> Hallelujah!

[22:16] <dove-VHL> This is so-o-o god, and it's because of the Spirit of God, Bless You Lord.

[22:16] <Bezalel-VHL> 2Praise the Lord, He is good!

[22:17] <dove-VHL> You go, Bez

[22:17] <dove-VHL> Me too:)

[22:17] <Rich-VHL> 7we know Jesus is here with us all right now and forevermore

[22:17] <VCI-Bob> That's one thing I really like about the dialogues in the book of John - Jesus clearly and unequivocally states who He is, and what His mission is

[22:17] <Rich-VHL> 7me too Bob

[22:17] <VCI-Bob> and each time shuts up His opponents

[22:17] <dove-VHL> Yes Hes does, and I love it too Bob:)

[22:17] <VCI-Bob> and manifests His glory and greatness

[22:18] <Rich-VHL> 7there is no greater calling in the universe than to be called to the side of Jesus

[22:18] <VCI-Bob> And.... we ain't seen NUTHIN yet - the best is yet to come! :)

[22:19] <Rich-VHL> 7I know and can't wait

[22:19] <Bezalel-VHL> 2The Spirit paid us a visit tonight. I can feel it.

[22:19] <Rich-VHL> 7its great Bez

[22:19] <VCI-Bob> He is good to us

[22:19] <Rich-VHL> 7I can feel Him too

[22:19] <Bezalel-VHL> 2Thank you Jesus.

[22:20] <Bezalel-VHL> 2Like you said, Bob. This is just the tip of the iceberg. The best is yet to come!

[22:20] <dove-VHL> OH! LOL with joy.. Yes, the best is yet to comeBiG heart :)

[22:20] <Rich-VHL> 7we are all born of the Spirit of God

[22:20] <VCI-Bob> The Lord always honors His Word - the Scriptures are powerful and active

[22:21] <Rich-VHL> 7that is how we can testify of jesus

[22:21] <Rich-VHL> 7Amen Bob

[22:22] <Bezalel-VHL> 2It's amazing that we will be here to see fulfillment of the Prophesies.....the Lord is Good, and we are Blessed.

[22:22] <VCI-Bob> Therefore God exalted him to the highest place and gave him the name that is above every name, (Philippians 2:9 NIV)

[22:22] <VCI-Bob> that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, (Philippians 2:10 NIV)

[22:22] <VCI-Bob> and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father. (Philippians 2:11 NIV)

[22:22] <dove-VHL> Thank You Lord, Thank You for Your Great love and presence,

[22:22] <VCI-Bob> "Turn to me and be saved, all you ends of the earth; for I am God, and there is no other. (Isaiah 45:22 NIV)

[22:22] <VCI-Bob> By myself I have sworn, my mouth has uttered in all integrity a word that will not be revoked: Before me every knee will bow; by me every tongue will swear. (Isaiah 45:23 NIV)

[22:22] <Rich-VHL> 7and it will happen soon too

[22:22] <VCI-Bob> They will say of me, 'In the LORD alone are righteousness and strength.'" All who have raged against him will come to him and be put to shame. (Isaiah 45:24 NIV)

[22:22] <VCI-Bob> But in the LORD all the descendants of Israel will be found righteous and will exult. (Isaiah 45:25 NIV)

[22:23] <Rich-VHL> 7Amen

[22:23] <dove-VHL> Hal-le-lu-jah!!!

[22:23] <Rich-VHL> 7let it be so Lord

[22:23] <Bezalel-VHL> 2Yahooooooo!

[22:24] <VCI-Bob> There's some "exultin" for ya :)

[22:24] <VCI-Bob> And there will be plenty more :)

[22:24] <Rich-VHL> 7and it has Blessedme

[22:24] <Bezalel-VHL> 2This is exactly what I needed.

[22:24] <VCI-Bob> we're just a bunch of exultin fools :)

[22:25] <Rich-VHL> 7the Lord is Great huh Bez

[22:25] <Bezalel-VHL> 2:->

[22:25] <dove-VHL> "Yes! Glory! Glory! To The Lamb>" Hal-le-lu-jah" Glory! Glory! To The Lamb."

[22:25] <Rich-VHL> 7ain't it cool Bob

[22:25] <VCI-Bob> sure is!

[22:26] <Bezalel-VHL> 2This is what the church should be about.

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[22:26] <Rich-VHL> 7some day soon Bez it will be

[22:26] <VCI-Bob> this is "church" in a sense, Bez - an assembly of believers for teaching, praise, and fellowship

[22:26] <dove-VHL> "Shout To The Lord" All The Earth, Let Us Sing, Power, and Glory, Praise To His Name...:)

[22:26] <Bezalel-VHL> 2Amen and amen....

[22:27] <VCI-Bob> Amen, Hallelujah, Dove

[22:27] <Rich-VHL> 7especialy when Gods two witnesses make themselves known to the world

[22:27] <Bezalel-VHL> 2Hi Seeker, welcome to the Old Time Religion.

[22:27] <Rich-VHL> 7hello seeker

[22:27] <VCI-Bob> Well, friends, it's time for me to make my exit - may the Lord bless you all greatly as you seek Him

[22:27] <dove-VHL> "Magisty, Magisty, Worship His Magisty.

[22:28] <seeker-VHL> thanks, my first time in

[22:28] <VCI-Bob> Hmmm - perhaps I should stay a little longer

[22:28] <dove-VHL> Oh Bob, thank you so much for being here for us / me too:)

[22:28] <VCI-Bob> I don't want to be rude to our first time guest

[22:28] <VCI-Bob> :)

[22:28] <Rich-VHL> 7thanks so much for being here Bob we appreciate it so much

[22:29] <VCI-Bob> My pleasure, Rich - believe me, it's the least I can do

[22:29] <Rich-VHL> 7if you can Bob

[22:29] <dove-VHL> God Bless you many, many times dear brother, Bob I love you

[22:29] <seeker-VHL> don't worry bob i have been reading for a while

[22:29] <dove-VHL> I gotta go too friends

[22:29] <VCI-Bob> Seeker, we're glad you joined us!

[22:29] <VCI-Bob> Night, Dove - the Lord be with you and make His face shine on you.

[22:29] <Bezalel-VHL> 2NIght Dove, you are loved.

[22:29] <Rich-VHL> 7dove may God keep you and Bless you all the time

[22:30] <seeker-VHL> what has the topic been today?

[22:30] <dove-VHL> Bez. I love you too, you all have been a real strength for me, thank you

[22:30] <VCI-Bob> Well, earlier we looked at Psalm 83, and then....

[22:30] <VCI-Bob> we looked at passages in the NT that speak of the deity of Jesus

[22:30] <dove-VHL> yes

[22:31] <VCI-Bob> with some politics talk in between :)

[22:31] <Bezalel-VHL> 2And then we all got hit with a dose of the Spirit.

[22:31] <Bezalel-VHL> 2:-)

[22:31] <VCI-Bob> Yes, we did :)

[22:31] <seeker-VHL> yes, the deity of the lord jesus. good subject

[22:31] <Rich-VHL> 7and how he told us the way it is huh Bez

[22:31] <dove-VHL> Good night, God Bless you all... I love you too Rich, I just love everybody:)

[22:31] <dove-VHL> Bye! now

[22:32] <Bezalel-VHL> 2:-* Dove

[22:32] <VCI-Bob> There is much in the Tanach (OT) also about the Lord Jesus, of course

[22:32] <VCI-Bob> :) Dove

[22:32] <Rich-VHL> 7I love you too dove Jesus be with you all the time

[22:32] <dove-VHL> :-*Bye

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[22:33] <seeker-VHL> tell me of the two witnesses someone just mentioned about

[22:33] <VCI-Bob> OK - they are mentioned in Revelation:

[22:33] <Rich-VHL> 7Well freinds my wife says its time to go lets proclaim the Hloy name of Jesus to the world

[22:33] <VCI-Bob> I was given a reed like a measuring rod and was told, "Go and measure the temple of God and the altar, and count the worshipers there. (Revelation 11:1 NIV)

[22:33] <VCI-Bob> But exclude the outer court; do not measure it, because it has been given to the Gentiles. They will trample on the holy city for 42 months. (Revelation 11:2 NIV)

[22:33] <VCI-Bob> And I will give power to my two witnesses, and they will prophesy for 1,260 days, clothed in sackcloth." (Revelation 11:3 NIV)

[22:33] <Rich-VHL> 7Holy

[22:34] <VCI-Bob> Night Rich - thanks for being here :)

[22:34] <Bezalel-VHL> 2Night Rich. Tell your wife hello!

[22:34] <Rich-VHL> 7Love you all

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[22:34] <VCI-Bob> Seeker, this is apparently during the last 3 1/2 years before Jesus comes in power and glory

[22:34] <seeker-VHL> men or symbol?

[22:34] <VCI-Bob> they are literal men, I believe

[22:35] <Bezalel-VHL> 2And powerful!

[22:35] <VCI-Bob> they are first referred to in the book of Zechariah

[22:35] <seeker-VHL> how so?

[22:35] <VCI-Bob> These are the two olive trees and the two lampstands that stand before the Lord of the earth. (Revelation 11:4 NIV)

[22:36] <VCI-Bob> "Who despises the day of small things? Men will rejoice when they see the plumb line in the hand of Zerubbabel. "(These seven are the eyes of the LORD, which range throughout the earth.)" (Zechariah 4:10 NIV)

[22:36] <VCI-Bob> Then I asked the angel, "What are these two olive trees on the right and the left of the lampstand?" (Zechariah 4:11 NIV)

[22:36] <VCI-Bob> Again I asked him, "What are these two olive branches beside the two gold pipes that pour out golden oil?" (Zechariah 4:12 NIV)

[22:36] <VCI-Bob> He replied, "Do you not know what these are?" "No, my lord," I said. (Zechariah 4:13 NIV)

[22:36] <VCI-Bob> So he said, "These are the two who are anointed to serve the Lord of all the earth." (Zechariah 4:14 NIV)

[22:37] <VCI-Bob> so... this gives us a point of reference for the general timeframe of Zechariah 4

[22:37] <VCI-Bob> here is the mission of the 2 men:

[22:37] <seeker-VHL> to me when i see the word anointed i think word of god.

[22:37] <VCI-Bob> There are prophets, of course

[22:38] <VCI-Bob> yes, Seeker - they will be speaking God's Word to a world that by this point is in full scale rebellion against God, worshipping the antichrist

[22:38] <VCI-Bob> If anyone tries to harm them, fire comes from their mouths and devours their enemies. This is how anyone who wants to harm them must die. (Revelation 11:5 NIV)

[22:38] <VCI-Bob> These men have power to shut up the sky so that it will not rain during the time they are prophesying; and they have power to turn the waters into blood and to strike the earth with every kind of plague as often as they want. (Revelation 11:6 NIV)

[22:38] <seeker-VHL> when i think of the word of god i think of the old and new testament

[22:39] <VCI-Bob> These men will be much like Moses and Elijah, calling down plagues and famines on the world

[22:39] <VCI-Bob> they will not be very popular :)

[22:39] <seeker-VHL> who is the antichrist?

[22:39] <Bezalel-VHL> 2I'll like them....

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[22:39] <VCI-Bob> Seeker, yes, they will be proclaiming the prophecies of the Lord

[22:40] <VCI-Bob> welcome, Incense

[22:40] <incense11> thank you Bob

[22:40] <VCI-Bob> I don't know, seeker, and no one else does either, yet

[22:40] <seeker-VHL> what does John say?

[22:40] <VCI-Bob> How are you tonight, incense? We had a small, but good group tonight

[22:41] <Bezalel-VHL> 2I'm going to say good night to all. Thank you Bob! Great chat tonight.

[22:41] <incense11> awhhhhh, I am fine, been at dance practice

[22:41] <VCI-Bob> Dear children, this is the last hour; and as you have heard that the antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come. This is how we know it is the last hour. (1 John 2:18 NIV)

[22:41] <seeker-VHL> This topic interests me but i have been dominating

[22:41] <Bezalel-VHL> 2We've been dancing here, also incense

[22:41] <VCI-Bob> Night, Bez! Keep on rejoicing!

[22:41] <Bezalel-VHL> 2Sure will, Bob.

[22:41] <incense11> great Bezale

[22:41] <Bezalel-VHL> 2:-)

[22:41] <VCI-Bob> :)

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[22:42] <incense11> hey I have great news

[22:42] <VCI-Bob> Yes?

[22:42] <incense11> something that just happened

[22:42] <VCI-Bob> tell us :)

[22:42] <incense11> last week end the dance team went to Savannah GA

[22:43] <incense11> Barry liked our dance, dress and banners so much

[22:43] <seeker-VHL> thanks for your time bob, i will certainly check in again soon. God Bless all

[22:43] <VCI-Bob> Night, Seeker! God bless

[22:43] <incense11> he invited us to Israel next October

[22:43] <VCI-Bob> woweee!!!!!

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[22:43] <VCI-Bob> How wonderful!!!!!!

[22:43] <incense11> we pay our way, then all housing and eats will be taken care of

[22:44] <VCI-Bob> Terrific, incense! You must be so excited!

[22:44] <incense11> do you know them

[22:44] <VCI-Bob> know who, incense?

[22:44] <incense11> God is really opening doors for our dance team

[22:44] <incense11> Barry and Batya Seigal

[22:44] <VCI-Bob> That is so great

[22:44] <VCI-Bob> No, I don't but the name sounds very familiar

[22:44] <incense11> they have tapes and CD's

[22:45] <incense11> they do so much to help terriorist victims, kids, familes

[22:45] <VCI-Bob> Have you been before?

[22:45] <incense11> in Israel, they have a place called Joseph Storehouse

[22:45] <incense11> yes, in 97 and 98

[22:46] <VCI-Bob> I met someone in chat room by chance the other day with a similar group called the "Battalion of Deborah"

[22:46] <VCI-Bob> Christian believers helping out Israelis in the settlements

[22:46] <incense11> wow, where from, do you know

[22:46] <VCI-Bob> the woman I talked with was from Texas

[22:47] <VCI-Bob> I was looking for a chat alternative for VHL and went into Yahoo chat

[22:47] <incense11> a dance team also, or they just help

[22:47] <VCI-Bob> and happened upon her

[22:47] <VCI-Bob> Not a dance team

[22:47] <incense11> wow that's great

[22:48] <incense11> you know Angus and Batya Wooten

[22:48] <VCI-Bob> yeah - it was cool, cuz Yahoo chat allows voice conversations, so we actually talked

[22:48] <VCI-Bob> yes

[22:48] <VCI-Bob> I read her book

[22:48] <incense11> they were just here in town

[22:48] <VCI-Bob> and met her once at a wedding of some mutual friends

[22:48] <incense11> do you believe her Judah and Ephraim

[22:49] <VCI-Bob> No, I really don't see much evidence for the idea that Christian believers are physically the tribe of Ephraim

[22:50] <incense11> wow, I see it so great

[22:50] <VCI-Bob> :)

[22:50] <incense11> not physically, blood line, is that what you don't see

[22:50] <VCI-Bob> blood line is physical, isn' t it?

[22:51] <VCI-Bob> Like, a physical descendant of Ephraim - if I understand what they are proposing

[22:51] <incense11> well, yes, but no one can prove they are israelite or not any more, a lot of adultry going on in those days ;-)

[22:52] <VCI-Bob> No, sorry, I don't agree with it :)

[22:52] <incense11> God said he would scatter... oh well you read the book I can't explain it to good

[22:52] <VCI-Bob> :)

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[22:52] <incense11> I hear Saddam has cancer

[22:52] <VCI-Bob> It's pretty late, I better run now

[22:52] <incense11> and not doing to well

[22:52] <VCI-Bob> I heard that rumor also

[22:52] <VCI-Bob> Welcome, Chris

[22:53] <VCI-Bob> I'm just now leaving

[22:53] <incense11> night Bob.. good seeing you again

[22:53] <VCI-Bob> Good to see you also! May the Lord bless you

[22:53] <incense11> and keep you

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