*** Log file opened: 8/24/00 8:00:24 PM

[20:00] littleone-VHL [~littleone-VHL@proxy1.talkcity.com] has joined #VHL-Prophecy

[20:00] Clint-VHL [~Clint-VHL@proxy3.talkcity.com] has joined #VHL-Prophecy

[20:00] <VCI-Bob> Hello, littleone and Clint! Welcome!

[20:01] <littleone-VHL> 2Good evening Bob and thank you

[20:01] <VCI-Bob> Glad to have you both tonight!

[20:01] <Clint-VHL> Hi guys.

[20:01] <littleone-VHL> 2the same here. Sometimes I do not have the opportunity to participate, because of work

[20:01] <Clint-VHL> I've been missing the chats so I thought I would come early.:-)

[20:02] <VCI-Bob> Tonight, we will resume our discussion of Isaiah (in a little while) starting with chapter 27...

[20:02] <littleone-VHL> 2It is always a blessing

[20:02] <VCI-Bob> but first we'll just shoot the breeze a little :)

[20:03] <VCI-Bob> Anything in particular you folks want to talk about for awhile?

[20:03] <Clint-VHL> Bob I'm sure you have read the prophecies that Stan was sending out by email.

[20:04] <VCI-Bob> I do get the emails - which prophecies, Clint?

[20:04] dotk-VHL [~dotk-VHL@proxy3.talkcity.com] has joined #VHL-Prophecy

[20:04] <VCI-Bob> welcome, Dotk!

[20:04] <Clint-VHL> Concerning potential war in Israel and the expansion of her borders.

[20:05] <dotk-VHL> hello Bob

[20:05] <VCI-Bob> Yes - it seems that we might be right on the verge of that

[20:05] <VCI-Bob> hard to say as far as the timing, but the situation is ripe

[20:05] <Clint-VHL> Very interesting, huh.

[20:05] <VCI-Bob> yes, very

[20:06] <Clint-VHL> It seems that we in the US are left in the dark many times.

[20:06] <VCI-Bob> Yes, thank God for VHL so we can have some idea of what is happening over there :)

[20:06] <Clint-VHL> You got it!

[20:06] <Clint-VHL> I certainly do thank God for all of you guys.

[20:07] <VCI-Bob> I was reading from a Jewish news website...

[20:07] <VCI-Bob> (Arutz Sheva)...

[20:07] <Clint-VHL> I can no longer beleive much if not most of what the media in this country feeds us.

[20:07] <VCI-Bob> they quoted the head of Hamas (a terrorist group) as saying this:

[20:08] Gran-VHL [~Gran-VHL@proxy14.talkcity.com] has joined #VHL-Prophecy

[20:08] <VCI-Bob> Yassin said "that the disappearance of Israel was a religious and historical eventuality. The Koran says that very clearly...I have no doubt that this will happen in a few decades, certainly this century."

[20:08] <VCI-Bob> Welcome, Gran

[20:08] <VCI-Bob> I think Mr. Yassin has some surprises in store for him :)

[20:08] <Gran-VHL> Bob shalom

[20:08] <Gran-VHL> shalom to you all

[20:08] <Clint-VHL> He is definately reading from a different book than I am.

[20:09] <VCI-Bob> "There is going to be a larger confrontation and we'd better be prepared for it," Yassin said.

[20:09] Glory-Bound [~Glory-Bound@proxy13.talkcity.com] has joined #VHL-Prophecy

[20:09] <VCI-Bob> He's right about that, anyway :)

[20:09] <VCI-Bob> Welcome, GB!

[20:09] <dotk-VHL> Hello gran

[20:09] <Glory-Bound> hi all

[20:09] <Gran-VHL> Bob did you get those prophesys that Stan was talking about on Mon night?

[20:09] <VCI-Bob> Glad to have the newcomers here - this is Bible Prophecy chat

[20:09] <dotk-VHL> Hello GB

[20:09] <Clint-VHL> I also beleive that there is going to be a major confrontation between the christians and the secular world in this country, Bob.

[20:10] <VCI-Bob> Clint asked me that also, Gran, yes I read it, and I think Stan's pretty much on target there

[20:10] <Glory-Bound> hi dotk

[20:10] <VCI-Bob> Yes, Clint - the lines are being drawn.....

[20:10] Glory-Bound [~Glory-Bound@proxy13.talkcity.com] has left #VHL-Prophecy

[20:10] <Gran-VHL> well if so then there will be a lot of surprised people wouldn't you say?

[20:10] <Clint-VHL> Hi Gran looks like we are on the same track.

[20:11] <VCI-Bob> not a confrontation in the physical sense, but God is seeing who will stay true to Him, right?

[20:11] <VCI-Bob> Yes, sure will, Gran

[20:11] <VCI-Bob> except for those who know their God :)

[20:11] <Clint-VHL> There seems to be a major legal battle heating up Bob.

[20:11] <Gran-VHL> There is no glory in war but once the lines are drawn then it is just going to be

[20:11] <VCI-Bob> Yes, Clint, and some bemoan that, but I think it's God's plan to draw the lines

[20:11] <Clint-VHL> BRB folks Shortly.

[20:12] <VCI-Bob> ok, Clint

[20:12] <Clint-VHL> Your right Bob.

[20:12] <VCI-Bob> Tonight, in a little while, we will resume in Isaiah, at chapter 27

[20:12] <Gran-VHL> Well God is good at drawing a line in the sand

[20:12] <Gran-VHL> good Bob

[20:12] <VCI-Bob> yes, indeed, Gran, and we'll see a little of that in Isaiah tonight

[20:13] <Gran-VHL> Bob also is seems that GMTA huh?

[20:13] <Gran-VHL> :)

[20:13] <VCI-Bob> :)

[20:14] <VCI-Bob> I think it's called "inspiration" or something like that :)

[20:14] <Gran-VHL> well I hope it is inspiration and not anything worldly LOL

[20:15] <VCI-Bob> Well, I wanted to see if anyone wanted to pursue any topics before we go to Isaiah...

[20:15] <VCI-Bob> so here's your chance - shoot :)

[20:15] <Gran-VHL> oh well I am just concerned about the stem cell thing the government wants to put through

[20:16] <Gran-VHL> If the embyro is not human and alive they wouldn';t be able to use it right

[20:16] <VCI-Bob> Yes, it's tragic, what mankind will do now in the name of science and progress

[20:16] <VCI-Bob> Gran, I don't think there will be any boundaries left, soon

[20:16] <Gran-VHL> yeah progress sheesh

[20:17] <Gran-VHL> money is what it is about

[20:17] <Gran-VHL> no Bob and that will lead us right into one wourld gov

[20:17] <VCI-Bob> Society continues to redefine "ethics" and in doing so shakes its fist in the face of God

[20:17] <Gran-VHL> and the anti Christ

[20:17] <VCI-Bob> yes, Gran

[20:17] <VCI-Bob> but - though these things are horrible, they are to be expected

[20:17] <VCI-Bob> so we must not let them get us down

[20:18] Annie-VHL [~Annie-VHL@proxy14.talkcity.com] has joined #VHL-Prophecy

[20:18] <Gran-VHL> yes but years ago it was years ago and now getting a little edgey

[20:18] <VCI-Bob> the campaign against God will only intensify as we move forward

[20:18] <VCI-Bob> Welcome Annie :)

[20:18] <VCI-Bob> Glad to have you join us.

[20:18] <Gran-VHL> it all seemed so far away and not really real

[20:18] <Annie-VHL> Hi everybody

[20:19] <VCI-Bob> Yes, and Gran, you know I think many Christians still think that life will go on as normal...

[20:19] <Gran-VHL> but then I also thought that the age of 70 was unreal and I will be in Jan

[20:19] <Gran-VHL> 70 that is not unreal <g>

[20:19] <VCI-Bob> but soon, we will not be able to live "normal" lives as believers anymore, and we had better make up our minds

[20:19] <VCI-Bob> yeah, 70 :) seems unreal to me, at 42 :)

[20:20] <Gran-VHL> Bob the problem is that we have no idea what real life is all about

[20:20] <Gran-VHL> yes i vagly remember being 42

[20:20] <VCI-Bob> I would not mind being 70 - it would be that much closer to being rid of this sinful self :)

[20:20] <Gran-VHL> well when that time comes for you age will be no more Praise God

[20:20] <Annie-VHL> I think Satan is having a hayday with marriages today

[20:21] <VCI-Bob> OK, well, we have a quiet gallery here tonight :)

[20:21] <VCI-Bob> yes, Annie

[20:21] <Gran-VHL> yes Annie and with our little ones

[20:21] <Gran-VHL> and teens

[20:21] <Gran-VHL> and with all of us really

[20:21] <VCI-Bob> yes, that's for sure

[20:21] <Gran-VHL> as usual I am doing all the talking :)

[20:22] <Gran-VHL> quick somebody else say something

[20:22] <VCI-Bob> That's ok, Gran - you have plenty of good things to say :)

[20:22] <Annie-VHL> To stay close to your families is very important and show them if possible their Savior

[20:22] <VCI-Bob> all right - let's go to the Word of God :)

[20:23] <VCI-Bob> We'll proceed in Isaiah, examining selected passages

[20:23] <Gran-VHL> Annie it is hard for some of us to do that and then some can

[20:23] <VCI-Bob> starting in chapter 27

[20:23] <VCI-Bob> we did 25 & 26 last time

[20:23] <Gran-VHL> but don't know how to speak to them

[20:23] <Gran-VHL> without making them angry

[20:23] <Gran-VHL> OK

[20:23] <VCI-Bob> Actually, verse 1 one of chapter 27 goes with the last verse of 26

[20:24] <VCI-Bob> See, the LORD is coming out of his dwelling to punish the people of the earth for their sins. The earth will disclose the blood shed upon her; she will conceal her slain no longer. (Isaiah 26:21 NIV)

[20:24] <VCI-Bob> In that day, the LORD will punish with his sword, his fierce, great and powerful sword, Leviathan the gliding serpent, Leviathan the coiling serpent; he will slay the monster of the sea. (Isaiah 27:1 NIV)

[20:24] <VCI-Bob> That speaks of the coming of the Lord Jesus

[20:24] <VCI-Bob> what does it mean that "she will conceal her slain no more"? anyone?

[20:25] <VCI-Bob> When Jesus returns, He will take vengenance for all of the innocent blood that has been shed on the earth

[20:26] <VCI-Bob> and.. the next verse, speaks of the demise of Satan, the beast, and the false prophet

[20:26] <Gran-VHL> people thnk they can hide things done from the Lord

[20:26] <dotk-VHL> Who is the monster of the sea there

[20:26] <Gran-VHL> but that is not possible

[20:27] <VCI-Bob> the monster of the sea is probably referring to the antichrist

[20:27] <Gran-VHL> Satan\

[20:27] <VCI-Bob> who is empowered by the serpent

[20:27] <VCI-Bob> now, the next several verses refer to Israel

[20:27] <VCI-Bob> In that day-- "Sing about a fruitful vineyard: (Isaiah 27:2 NIV)

[20:27] <VCI-Bob> I, the LORD, watch over it; I water it continually. I guard it day and night so that no one may harm it. (Isaiah 27:3 NIV)

[20:28] <VCI-Bob> Here, Israel is described as a "fruitful vineyard"....

[20:28] <VCI-Bob> in contrast to chapter 5, where the vineyard produced no fruit and was worthless

[20:29] <VCI-Bob> This is speaking of the future fruitfulness of Israel

[20:29] <Annie-VHL> these will be future dealings withIsrael

[20:29] <VCI-Bob> yes, Annie

[20:29] <VCI-Bob> He is still watching over His vineyard

[20:29] <VCI-Bob> in fact, the next verses tell us....

[20:30] <VCI-Bob> I am not angry. If only there were briers and thorns confronting me! I would march against them in battle; I would set them all on fire. (Isaiah 27:4 NIV)

[20:30] <VCI-Bob> This is quite interesting

[20:30] <VCI-Bob> God has been angry with Israel over the centuries, right?

[20:30] <VCI-Bob> And He dealt with them accordingly

[20:30] <VCI-Bob> but now, He says "I am not angry"

[20:31] <VCI-Bob> as Stan often notes, in these last days, God's attitude towards Israel is changing

[20:31] <VCI-Bob> the time of restoration and consolation is at hand

[20:31] <Gran-VHL> I believe that God is over being angrey with her

[20:31] <Gran-VHL> and it is the time of restoraton

[20:31] <Gran-VHL> that was promised

[20:31] <VCI-Bob> the "briers and thorns" is a continuation of the "vineyard" analogy

[20:31] <Gran-VHL> oh you said that sorry Bob

[20:32] <VCI-Bob> and it's what you said earlier, Gran, about God drawing a line

[20:32] <Gran-VHL> yes

[20:32] <Annie-VHL> when Israel gets rid of all her idols then HE will deal with them

[20:32] <VCI-Bob> He is in effect daring "briers and thorns" to oppose Israel so He can set them on fire

[20:32] <VCI-Bob> yes, Annie, that's right, and we'll see that a little later on here

[20:33] <Gran-VHL> amen

[20:33] <VCI-Bob> The next verse, verse 5, is really something.... I'm going to use the Amplified, because this gives us great clues about God's dealings with Israel now

[20:34] <VCI-Bob> Or else[ if all Israel would escape being burned up together there is but one alternative ], let them take hold of my strength and make complete surrender to my protection that they may make peace with me! Yes, let them make peace with me!

[20:34] <Gran-VHL> Good I like that one

[20:34] <VCI-Bob> Today, in the "peace process" we do not see Israel going to God for protection

[20:34] farrell-VHL [~farrell-VHL@proxy13.talkcity.com] has joined #VHL-Prophecy

[20:34] <VCI-Bob> and that is His objective - that they will "take hold of His strength"

[20:35] <VCI-Bob> and "make complete surrender to His protection"

[20:35] <VCI-Bob> It will happen, and may it happen soon, Lord God

[20:35] <Gran-VHL> Bob did you see about the so called peace summitt that Christains will not be invited to

[20:35] <VCI-Bob> No, I didn't Gran

[20:36] <Gran-VHL> appeasing Chi na

[20:36] <Gran-VHL> I will send you the aritcle

[20:36] <VCI-Bob> ok, thanks

[20:36] <VCI-Bob> Does anyone have any comments or questions on what we looked at so far?

[20:36] <Annie-VHL> HE will deal harshly with the northern kingdom but HIs dealings with Israel will be to purge and redeem them

[20:37] <VCI-Bob> yes, Annie, and this will be the result:

[20:37] <Gran-VHL> yes Annie i bleive that is right

[20:37] <VCI-Bob> In days to come Jacob will take root, Israel will bud and blossom and fill all the world with fruit. (Isaiah 27:6 NIV)

[20:37] <farrell-VHL> 2Shalom Brothers and Sisters - hi gran:) hope you are better. I'll have to read transcript tomorrow to know what you all have been talking about:)

[20:37] <VCI-Bob> Israel will once again be "fruitful" - that is, bearing the knowledge of the Lord to the world

[20:38] <VCI-Bob> Shalom, Farrell!

[20:38] <Annie-VHL> this will be wonderful

[20:38] <VCI-Bob> Oh yes, Annie! :)

[20:38] Delta-VHL [~Delta-VHL@proxy14.talkcity.com] has joined #VHL-Prophecy

[20:38] <VCI-Bob> Welcome, Delta! Shalom! :)

[20:38] <Annie-VHL> Shalom, Farrell

[20:38] <Delta-VHL> hi

[20:38] <Gran-VHL> farell shalom dear feeling some better

[20:38] <VCI-Bob> We are in Isaiah 27, for the newcomers

[20:38] <Gran-VHL> thanks for asking

[20:38] <farrell-VHL> 2Annie:) Delta:)

[20:38] <Annie-VHL> Hi Delta

[20:38] <Gran-VHL> delta shalom

[20:39] <Delta-VHL> Shalom all

[20:39] <VCI-Bob> Has the LORD struck her as he struck down those who struck her? Has she been killed as those were killed who killed her? (Isaiah 27:7 NIV)

[20:39] <VCI-Bob> The answer to that, is NO

[20:40] <VCI-Bob> Though He has struck her down in the past, He will once again restore her, as the prophets tell us over and over

[20:40] <farrell-VHL> 2Don't we serve a WONDERFUL God who keeps all of His promises?

[20:41] <VCI-Bob> Yes, indeed! :)

[20:41] <Annie-VHL> As I understand ti a remnant will be left about one-third

[20:41] Yowza-VHL [~Yowza-VHL@proxy1.talkcity.com] has quit IRC (Yowza-VHL has left the room)

[20:42] <VCI-Bob> Here, at the end of the chapter, is yet another prophecy about the regathering of Israel to the land in the last days

[20:42] <VCI-Bob> In that day the LORD will thresh from the flowing Euphrates to the Wadi of Egypt, and you, O Israelites, will be gathered up one by one. (Isaiah 27:12 NIV)

[20:42] <VCI-Bob> And in that day a great trumpet will sound. Those who were perishing in Assyria and those who were exiled in Egypt will come and worship the LORD on the holy mountain in Jerusalem. (Isaiah 27:13 NIV)

[20:42] <Delta-VHL> a gathering together?

[20:42] <VCI-Bob> This is saying that throughout the Middle East, Jews will return to Israel, and we have already seen this fulfilled to a large extent

[20:43] <VCI-Bob> except the "the great trumpet"- when the worship on the Temple Mount will occur, as Jesus reigns in glory

[20:43] <Annie-VHL> thiswill mean gathered from Assyria,Egypt and alll nations

[20:44] <Gran-VHL> yes the Lord has been busy gathering HIS children back home

[20:44] <Delta-VHL> Where do us in the US come in? Or is that included?

[20:44] <farrell-VHL> 2I'm looking forward to seeing a great exodus from U.S. back to Israel too. Is there a specific prophecy that would pertain to the Western contininents?

[20:44] <Gran-VHL> Bob do you know how many are left in Russia

[20:44] <Gran-VHL> anyone know

[20:45] <Gran-VHL> is it 3 million that have come already

[20:45] <VCI-Bob> Yes, perhaps, Farrell, not specifically

[20:45] <Annie-VHL> I've searched for that one

[20:45] <VCI-Bob> Then they will know that I am the LORD their God, for though I sent them into exile among the nations, I will gather them to their own land, not leaving any behind. (Ezekiel 39:28 NIV)

[20:45] <farrell-VHL> 2any results, Annie?

[20:45] <VCI-Bob> that last phrase is the key

[20:45] <VCI-Bob> "not leaving any behind"

[20:45] <Gran-VHL> Stan said and I forgot

[20:45] <VCI-Bob> I still expect to see large numbers make aliyah from the US, France, and other places

[20:46] <Gran-VHL> yes for right

[20:46] <Gran-VHL> Praise God HE is so faithful

[20:46] <Gran-VHL> to us

[20:46] <VCI-Bob> even though it does not seem likely now, I think we will see it happen :)

[20:46] <Delta-VHL> I do not know how many have the same challenge I have in proving heritage, Bob

[20:46] <Annie-VHL> I can't figure out where we come in

[20:46] <farrell-VHL> 2aliyay? what does that mean? anything like return?

[20:46] <VCI-Bob> Yes, that's what it is, Farrell

[20:47] <farrell-VHL> 2sp) aliyah

[20:47] <Gran-VHL> 5 well if this is right as you sais bob none will be left

[20:47] <VCI-Bob> Yes, Delta, the requirements are strict, huh

[20:47] <farrell-VHL> 2Yes Gran - Praise God!!

[20:47] <littleone-VHL> 2Bob, does the Lord technically refers only about the Jewish background people, and Jewish concerning God gathering them to their own land..or does God also includes for His people not Jewish background that loves Him and faithfuly His beloved Israel?

[20:47] <Delta-VHL> Very strict

[20:48] <VCI-Bob> Good question, littleone - I think in terms of the scope of these prophecies....

[20:48] <VCI-Bob> He is speaking primarily of the Jewish people, because...

[20:48] <VCI-Bob> When I have brought them back from the nations and have gathered them from the countries of their enemies, I will show myself holy through them in the sight of many nations. (Ezekiel 39:27 NIV)

[20:48] <Gran-VHL> 5doesn't being Jewish as far as their laws are concerned have to come through the mothers side

[20:48] <VCI-Bob> Then they will know that I am the LORD their God, for though I sent them into exile among the nations, I will gather them to their own land, not leaving any behind. (Ezekiel 39:28 NIV)

[20:48] <VCI-Bob> I will no longer hide my face from them, for I will pour out my Spirit on the house of Israel, declares the Sovereign LORD." (Ezekiel 39:29 NIV)

[20:48] <VCI-Bob> See God's objectives for them?

[20:48] <Delta-VHL> yes, Gran, and it has to be immediate generations

[20:49] <VCI-Bob> Then they will know Him

[20:49] <VCI-Bob> Though they do not now

[20:49] <VCI-Bob> and though God had been hiding His face from them

[20:49] <VCI-Bob> He will no longer

[20:49] <littleone-VHL> 2Therefore it does not this prophecy does not touch the spiritual jewish people

[20:49] <Clint-VHL> I'm back guys.

[20:49] <VCI-Bob> Welcome back, Clint

[20:49] <Gran-VHL> 5oh gosh then if you can't prove parentage by birth certificate than you may be stuck huh/

[20:50] <Annie-VHL> Hi Clint

[20:50] <Gran-VHL> 5good clint you have some catching up to do

[20:50] <farrell-VHL> 2Isn't it comforting to know that whether Jew or gentile, if we are in God's Will, then all is perfect for us - No matter what He purposes for us?

[20:50] <VCI-Bob> Well, Littleone, we who know the Lord now have even better promises, right? :)

[20:50] <Delta-VHL> Shalom Clint

[20:50] <VCI-Bob> Yes, Farrell

[20:50] <Delta-VHL> I think of Rahab and Jericho, Bob

[20:50] <Gran-VHL> 5Delta won't they give you a break because of the holacost?

[20:50] <Delta-VHL> Nope, Gran

[20:50] <Clint-VHL> Hi everyone.

[20:51] <farrell-VHL> 2Hi Clint:)

[20:51] <littleone-VHL> 2Indee Bob,He is the Great Adonai!:)

[20:51] <VCI-Bob> Yes, Delta? What about Rahab? tell us

[20:51] <VCI-Bob> Yes, Indeed!! Littleone

[20:51] <Delta-VHL> She was not Jewish, but saved the spies, and when Jericho went down, her dwelling stood. And she is mentioned in the geneology of Jesus

[20:51] <Clint-VHL> Isaiah ?

[20:51] <VCI-Bob> Yes

[20:52] <VCI-Bob> We were there, Clint, and veered away a little

[20:52] <VCI-Bob> we'll go back shortly :)

[20:52] <Clint-VHL> Which chapter.

[20:52] <VCI-Bob> Yes, Delta

[20:52] <Gran-VHL> 5yes as is Ruth

[20:52] <VCI-Bob> We were in 27

[20:52] <Gran-VHL> 5I don't think they had those kind of laws then though

[20:52] <Clint-VHL> No problem.

[20:52] <VCI-Bob> now we will look at selected parts of 28

[20:52] <Gran-VHL> 5and soon Messiah will come and it won't matter

[20:53] <Gran-VHL> 5but not much help now tho

[20:53] <Annie-VHL> I believe that if you have been grafted in and say that Jesus Christ is your Savior HE wil take you to HIM

[20:53] <VCI-Bob> Right - we have inherited the blessings of Abraham, those who have faith like Abraham did :)

[20:53] <Delta-VHL> Amen, Annie. Olive tree in both categories here!

[20:53] <Gran-VHL> 5Praise God Delta

[20:54] <VCI-Bob> OK - when we get back to Isaiah, we are going to look at a widely misapplied verse

[20:54] <VCI-Bob> which you have all probably heard

[20:54] <Delta-VHL> Listening to Bob

[20:55] <VCI-Bob> Here it is:

[20:55] <VCI-Bob> For it is precept upon precept, precept upon precept, line upon line, line upon line, here a little, there a little." (Isaiah 28:10 NRSV)

[20:55] <VCI-Bob> Now, we have all heard that this is talking about the proper way to teach

[20:55] <VCI-Bob> but this is not what it is talking about at all

[20:55] <VCI-Bob> we will step back and look at the context a little

[20:56] <VCI-Bob> Isaiah is addressing those who mock God's message as being stupid:

[20:56] <VCI-Bob> "Who is it he is trying to teach? To whom is he explaining his message? To children weaned from their milk, to those just taken from the breast? (Isaiah 28:9 NIV)

[20:56] <VCI-Bob> This is what the scoffers are saying

[20:57] <VCI-Bob> in effect- who does he think he is talking to, a bunch of infants?

[20:57] <Delta-VHL> Is that like "Can anything good come out of Nazareth"? :-)

[20:57] <VCI-Bob> ok so far? :)

[20:57] <VCI-Bob> Like, "are we that stupid that we will listen to this nonsense"?

[20:57] <VCI-Bob> ok, so that's the context...

[20:57] <Delta-VHL> :-)

[20:58] <Clint-VHL> In 28:9 there is no ? after breasts Bob.

[20:58] <VCI-Bob> the next verse is, in the hebrew:

[20:58] <Clint-VHL> in the KJV

[20:58] <VCI-Bob> for it is "sav lasav, sav lasav, kav lakav, kav lakav"

[20:58] <VCI-Bob> which is, what we would say in English:

[20:59] <VCI-Bob> goo goo gah gah :)

[20:59] <VCI-Bob> baby talk

[20:59] <Delta-VHL> ooooooooohhhhhhhhhhhh K

[20:59] <VCI-Bob> they are mocking the prophet

[20:59] <VCI-Bob> so - in response God says this:

[21:00] <VCI-Bob> Very well then, with foreign lips and strange tongues God will speak to this people, (Isaiah 28:11 NIV)

[21:00] <VCI-Bob> to whom he said, "This is the resting place, let the weary rest"; and, "This is the place of repose"-- but they would not listen. (Isaiah 28:12 NIV)

[21:00] <VCI-Bob> Which, I believe, is quoted somewhere in the New Testament

[21:00] dotk-VHL [~dotk-VHL@proxy3.talkcity.com] has left #VHL-Prophecy

[21:00] <VCI-Bob> So then, the word of the LORD to them will become: "goo goo gah gah"

[21:00] <VCI-Bob> ok - what He is saying is this:

[21:01] <VCI-Bob> because they are too sophisticated to listen to this "baby talk"

[21:01] <VCI-Bob> then that's what it's going to become to them, just so much nonsense

[21:01] <VCI-Bob> This is, a prophecy of the rejection of the Word of the Lord by the Jewish people in the past

[21:01] <VCI-Bob> does that make sense?

[21:01] <Delta-VHL> Its' 1 Corinthians 14:21 in NT, Bon

[21:02] <Delta-VHL> oops Bob

[21:02] <VCI-Bob> thanks, Delta :)

[21:02] <VCI-Bob> any questions on that passage?

[21:02] <farrell-VHL> 2Thanks Bob. Now, go on to the stone in Zion - Is that Jesus?

[21:02] <VCI-Bob> or comments?

[21:02] <Annie-VHL> because they were irreverent and stubborn HE sent against them a foreign invader(Assgria whose language they would not understnad

[21:03] <Gran-VHL> 5Bob I like your word here first time it has been explained to me

[21:03] <VCI-Bob> right, Annie, that's the immediate fulfillment of the prophecy

[21:03] <Delta-VHL> I've wondered why they were stubborn so many times over and over

[21:03] <VCI-Bob> but it had long term implications as well

[21:03] <Clint-VHL> In verse 9 Bob the word is to babies, right?

[21:04] <VCI-Bob> yes, Clint

[21:04] <Gran-VHL> 5Delta I must run in the family

[21:04] <VCI-Bob> like "who does he think he is talking to!!"

[21:04] <Gran-VHL> 5christaiins can be stubborn also

[21:04] <Delta-VHL> This is true, Gran

[21:04] <Gran-VHL> 5yes not many liked Isaiah

[21:04] <Gran-VHL> 5he got in theri faces too much

[21:05] <VCI-Bob> Right, Gran, but ultimately, it was Israel's rejection of the Lord Himself

[21:05] <Gran-VHL> 5and revealed their idols

[21:05] <VCI-Bob> yes

[21:05] <Gran-VHL> 5yes Bob they just took it out on him

[21:05] <Delta-VHL> That happens with prophetic people a lot. Jesus bemoaned the rejection of the prophets and Himself, I think

[21:05] <VCI-Bob> right, Delta

[21:05] Bezalel-VHL [~Bezalel-VHL@proxy13.talkcity.com] has joined #VHL-Prophecy

[21:05] <VCI-Bob> Welcome, Bez!

[21:05] <Gran-VHL> 5just like us saying I'm not mad at God

[21:05] <VCI-Bob> We are at Isaiah 28:15

[21:05] <Delta-VHL> :-) Bez

[21:06] <Bezalel-VHL> Hello, All!

[21:06] <Gran-VHL> 5Bez buddy shalom

[21:06] <Clint-VHL> In the last line of vs 9 there is no ? mark after breasts. That seems to indicate that the word is to be preached or taught to babies because they are innocent enough to accept them without question.

[21:06] <VCI-Bob> Farrell wants to talk about "the precious cornerstone" :)

[21:06] <farrell-VHL> 2Shalom Bezalel:)

[21:06] <Gran-VHL> 5yes Jeus reminded them that they killed the prophets

[21:06] <VCI-Bob> my translation has a ? :)

[21:07] <Annie-VHL> Hi Bez

[21:07] <Delta-VHL> Cornerstones are good!

[21:07] <Clint-VHL> The KJV doesn't. Would not that make a difference?

[21:07] <VCI-Bob> actually, all 4 translations I'm looking at now have a ? there

[21:07] <VCI-Bob> Yes, Delta :)

[21:07] <farrell-VHL> 2Yes, if God is going to reduce the understanding of the Jews to "baby talk", is this why they did not understand the parables of Jesus?

[21:08] <VCI-Bob> that's right, Farrell!!!

[21:08] <Gran-VHL> 5yes especailly ours

[21:08] <VCI-Bob> that's the long term implication of that prophecy

[21:08] <farrell-VHL> 2cool! I never really saw that before

[21:08] <VCI-Bob> thanks for that insight :)

[21:08] <Gran-VHL> 5Bob and all I hate to leave such good company but am just hurting too bad to sit here any longer

[21:09] <Gran-VHL> 5I wish I could do this laying down

[21:09] <VCI-Bob> Oh, Gran, so sorry to hear that

[21:09] <Delta-VHL> ((((Gran)))))

[21:09] <farrell-VHL> 2Oh Gran:( Please take care of yourself

[21:09] <farrell-VHL> 2:)

[21:09] <VCI-Bob> we will miss you - God's greatest blessings to you

[21:09] <Gran-VHL> 5but can't so will have to leave you god bless you all I love these chats so much they make my week

[21:09] <Annie-VHL> I will pray for you tonight Gran

[21:09] <Clint-VHL> Gran take care. I also have had many back surgeries and it does hurt.

[21:09] <Bezalel-VHL> 2Night Gran, God Bless!

[21:10] <Gran-VHL> 5oh a little laying down and I will feel better and get to bed early again

[21:10] <Clint-VHL> Praying for you Gran.

[21:10] <Delta-VHL> Shalom!

[21:10] <Gran-VHL> 5shalom family and thanks for all of your prayers

[21:10] <Gran-VHL> 5Byeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

[21:10] <farrell-VHL> 2Shalom dear Gran God bless you

[21:10] <Delta-VHL> Bob? I think I misunderstood something

[21:10] <VCI-Bob> Yes, Delta?

[21:11] Gran-VHL [~Gran-VHL@proxy14.talkcity.com] has quit IRC (Gran-VHL has left the room)

[21:11] <Delta-VHL> Were we saying because of the simplicity of understanding of the Jews is why they did not understand the parables of Jesus

[21:11] <VCI-Bob> Gran is such a dear woman :)

[21:11] <Annie-VHL> I am going to have to leave too loved visiting see you all later and God Bless

[21:11] <Delta-VHL> ?

[21:11] <VCI-Bob> God bless, Annie

[21:11] <Delta-VHL> Shalom Annie

[21:11] B1racing [~B1racing@proxy16.talkcity.com] has joined #VHL-Prophecy

[21:11] <Delta-VHL> yes, she is Bob

[21:11] <Bezalel-VHL> 2Shalom, Annie

[21:11] <VCI-Bob> Yes, Delta, see verse 13 especially:

[21:11] <farrell-VHL> 2God Bless you Annie, good night:)

[21:11] <Clint-VHL> Goodnight Annie, Shalom.

[21:12] Annie-VHL [~Annie-VHL@proxy14.talkcity.com] has quit IRC (Annie-VHL has left the room)

[21:12] <VCI-Bob> So then, the word of the LORD to them will become (just so much baby talk)-- so that they will go and fall backward, be injured and snared and captured. (Isaiah 28:13 NIV)

[21:12] <Delta-VHL> I always thought perhaps because of their simplicity is why He spoke in parables. Now I have a new way of looking at it

[21:12] <farrell-VHL> 2me too Delta, isn't that exciting?

[21:12] skip-VHL [~skip-VHL@proxy14.talkcity.com] has joined #VHL-Prophecy

[21:12] <skip-VHL> 4hi everyone:-)

[21:13] <Delta-VHL> Yes, but, being stubborn, I think I'll say it's both! LOL

[21:13] <farrell-VHL> 2Shalom Skip:)

[21:13] <Delta-VHL> Shalom Skip

[21:13] <VCI-Bob> This is why I speak to them in parables: "Though seeing, they do not see; though hearing, they do not hear or understand. (Matthew 13:13 NIV)

[21:13] <VCI-Bob> Welcome, Skip!

[21:13] <VCI-Bob> And also B1racing!

[21:13] <VCI-Bob> In them is fulfilled the prophecy of Isaiah: "'You will be ever hearing but never understanding; you will be ever seeing but never perceiving. (Matthew 13:14 NIV)

[21:13] <VCI-Bob> For this people's heart has become calloused; they hardly hear with their ears, and they have closed their eyes. Otherwise they might see with their eyes, hear with their ears, understand with their hearts and turn, and I would heal them.' (Matthew 13:15 NIV)

[21:13] <VCI-Bob> That's what Jesus said about it

[21:13] <B1racing> hello everyone-trying to catch up

[21:14] <farrell-VHL> 2Hi B1:)

[21:14] <B1racing> hi farrell

[21:14] <Clint-VHL> Bob for the judgement on those who rejected Christ to be just wouldn't they have to understand and then reject?

[21:15] <VCI-Bob> The next verse we will look at, some have equated to the current "peace process"

[21:15] <VCI-Bob> That's a tough question, Clint, one I cannot really answer

[21:15] <VCI-Bob> satisfactorily, anyway

[21:15] <skip-VHL> 4understanding comes with faith

[21:16] <Clint-VHL> Yeah, guess so.

[21:16] Rich-VHL [~Rich-VHL@proxy4.talkcity.com] has joined #VHL-Prophecy

[21:16] <VCI-Bob> Welcome, Rich!

[21:16] <Delta-VHL> Would not the blood sacrifices have been applied at the time? Just a thought.

[21:16] <Clint-VHL> Hi everyone that has joined.

[21:16] <skip-VHL> 4faith in believing what you see and hear

[21:16] <Delta-VHL> Apparently SOME understood the parables, though! Praise God!

[21:16] <farrell-VHL> 2One thing we know, Clint, and that is "justly" we all are condemned to hell. How God saves us is a wonderment to me!!

[21:16] <Rich-VHL> 7hi Bob

[21:17] <VCI-Bob> I want to take a quick look at a commentary regarding Isa 28:15

[21:17] <Rich-VHL> 7hello room

[21:17] <VCI-Bob> You boast, "We have entered into a covenant with death, with the grave we have made an agreement. When an overwhelming scourge sweeps by, it cannot touch us, for we have made a lie our refuge and falsehood our hiding place." (Isaiah 28:15 NIV)

[21:17] <skip-VHL> 4hi rich

[21:17] <Clint-VHL> Why is even more of an astonishment Farrell.

[21:17] <farrell-VHL> 2Shalom rich

[21:17] <B1racing> brb

[21:17] B1racing [~B1racing@proxy16.talkcity.com] has left #VHL-Prophecy

[21:17] <Delta-VHL> Ouch

[21:17] <farrell-VHL> 2yes Clint. Why??

[21:18] <Rich-VHL> 7hi skip and farrell

[21:18] <Clint-VHL> I don't think that I am worth it.

[21:18] <VCI-Bob> I know I am not

[21:18] <farrell-VHL> 2Praise God that He does save us, right?

[21:18] <Clint-VHL> But HE loves me anyway.

[21:18] <VCI-Bob> very much not

[21:18] <VCI-Bob> yes, that's the incredible thing

[21:18] <Rich-VHL> 7worth what Clint

[21:19] <Clint-VHL> saving.

[21:19] <VCI-Bob> Yes, wonderful grace of Jesus, greater than all my sin!

[21:19] <farrell-VHL> 2Well God thinks so Clint and He has better judgment that you do:)

[21:19] <Clint-VHL> But Jesus must think so, because I am saved.

[21:19] <Delta-VHL> We must be, because God sent such a precious Gift to save us. He saw us as worth saving. Amen?

[21:19] <Rich-VHL> 7Clint you are worth just as much as I am and I'm saved

[21:19] <Clint-VHL> You got it my brother.

[21:19] <VCI-Bob> How shall my tongue describe it, where shall it's praise begin!

[21:19] <Delta-VHL> GMTA Clint!

[21:19] <skip-VHL> 4amen

[21:20] <Clint-VHL> GMTA?????

[21:20] <Delta-VHL> Great Minds Think Alike

[21:20] <Clint-VHL> Alright!!!!!

[21:20] <Rich-VHL> 7that is good Clint

[21:20] <VCI-Bob> You boast, "We have entered into a covenant with death, with the grave we have made an agreement. When an overwhelming scourge sweeps by, it cannot touch us, for we have made a lie our refuge and falsehood our hiding place." (Isaiah 28:15 NIV)

[21:20] <VCI-Bob> I'm going to quote from this commentary

[21:21] <VCI-Bob> quite interesting and relevant to today

[21:21] <skip-VHL> 4oh

[21:21] <VCI-Bob> "To their confident assurance of safety (Israel) God opposes,

[21:21] <VCI-Bob> first, the only sure foundation which He Himself had laid"

[21:22] <Rich-VHL> 7is that talking about Jews or Jews and Christians Bob

[21:22] <VCI-Bob> (see the next verse about the cornerstone, which is the Lord Himself"

[21:22] <VCI-Bob> Jews, primarily

[21:22] <Rich-VHL> 7I thought so

[21:22] <VCI-Bob> Listen to this:

[21:23] <Rich-VHL> 7oh hi Delta how are you tonight

[21:23] <VCI-Bob> "By the art of falsehood, cunning policy, and fine diplomacy they hoped to be saved"

[21:23] <VCI-Bob> sounds like today, huh!

[21:23] <Clint-VHL> Yeah, but it don't work like that.

[21:23] <Rich-VHL> 7how true for our day

[21:23] <skip-VHL> 4uhhuh

[21:23] <Delta-VHL> LOL, shalom Rich

[21:23] <VCI-Bob> The "lies" and "falsehood" they were depending on was an alliance with Egypt

[21:23] <VCI-Bob> so.......

[21:24] <VCI-Bob> this is very relevant to the "peace process"

[21:24] <Rich-VHL> 7very Delta

[21:24] <Clint-VHL> What's new?

[21:24] <VCI-Bob> You boast, "We have entered into a covenant with death, with the grave we have made an agreement. When an overwhelming scourge sweeps by, it cannot touch us, for we have made a lie our refuge and falsehood our hiding place." (Isaiah 28:15 NIV)

[21:24] <VCI-Bob> So this is what the Sovereign LORD says: "See, I lay a stone in Zion, a tested stone, a precious cornerstone for a sure foundation; the one who trusts will never be dismayed. (Isaiah 28:16 NIV)

[21:24] <Rich-VHL> 7I mean very good Delta

[21:24] <VCI-Bob> See the contrast?

[21:24] <farrell-VHL> 2What about the last sentence of verse 19 - The understanding of this message will bring sheer terror" Could that be when the Jews "look on the One they pierced." ?

[21:24] <VCI-Bob> He is telling them to trust in HIM, not their false hopes

[21:25] <Delta-VHL> Like Barak promising away the land in exchange for nothing.

[21:25] <skip-VHL> 4yes

[21:25] <Delta-VHL> sigh

[21:25] <Rich-VHL> 7thats right Delta

[21:25] <Delta-VHL> Praise God there are those who remember 1947!

[21:26] <VCI-Bob> Farrell, in general, it's talking about anyone who trusts in something other than the Lord "When the overwhelming scourge sweeps by, you will be beaten down by it." - like the house on the sand, right?

[21:26] <Rich-VHL> 7our leaders have concluded that there is no God and are depending on their human nature

[21:26] <Clint-VHL> Giving in to bullies has never worked in the past and it will not work now.

[21:26] <farrell-VHL> 2yes!

[21:26] <VCI-Bob> and the "sheer terror" that came over the centuries was the understanding that they had departed from Him, and were not suffering as a result, just like He said

[21:27] <VCI-Bob> now sufferering

[21:27] <Rich-VHL> 7and human nature is easily swayed by the evil one if one doesn't believe in Jesus Christ

[21:27] <Delta-VHL> Bob, could it also be that Yeshua will be so ticked off that it will bring those who stand in the way terror as well?

[21:27] <VCI-Bob> yes :)

[21:27] <Delta-VHL> (Referring to the "Jesus kicks rear" metaphor) :-)

[21:27] <Clint-VHL> I beleive that the reason they perfer to trust in their covenants is because it is something that they can see. It requires no faith.

[21:27] <VCI-Bob> The bed is too short to stretch out on, the blanket too narrow to wrap around you. (Isaiah 28:20 NIV)

[21:28] <VCI-Bob> Very uncomfortable, huh?

[21:28] <farrell-VHL> 2That is pretty descriptive of Israel today.

[21:28] <VCI-Bob> When the thing they relied on proved to be inadequate

[21:28] <Rich-VHL> 7isn't the Holy

[21:28] <Clint-VHL> Sounds like Israel after all the land is given away, huh?

[21:29] <Rich-VHL> 7isn't the Holy Bible accurate though Glory to our Lord Jesus

[21:29] <VCI-Bob> The next verse is very peculiar, and I am still puzzling over it

[21:29] <VCI-Bob> perhaps you all can help me

[21:29] <VCI-Bob> The LORD will rise up as he did at Mount Perazim, he will rouse himself as in the Valley of Gibeon-- to do his work, his strange work, and perform his task, his alien task. (Isaiah 28:21 NIV)

[21:29] <skip-VHL> 4?

[21:29] <VCI-Bob> The first situation it refers to is VERY significant

[21:30] B1racing [~B1racing@proxy16.talkcity.com] has joined #VHL-Prophecy

[21:30] <VCI-Bob> Mount Perazim - when God "broke out

[21:30] <VCI-Bob> "broke out" against the Philestines....

[21:30] <farrell-VHL> 2where is that Bob?

[21:30] <Rich-VHL> 7where is Mount Perazim Bob

[21:30] <Delta-VHL> Is there another name for Mount Perzim?

[21:30] <Delta-VHL> oops

[21:30] <Delta-VHL> Perazim

[21:30] <VCI-Bob> during a decisive battle at the time of David

[21:30] <farrell-VHL> 2in Scripture?

[21:30] <VCI-Bob> and they were never again a problem

[21:30] <VCI-Bob> let me find it

[21:30] <VCI-Bob> So David went to Baal Perazim, and there he defeated them. He said, "As waters break out, the LORD has broken out against my enemies before me." So that place was called Baal Perazim. (2 Samuel 5:20 NIV)

[21:31] B1racing [~B1racing@proxy16.talkcity.com] has left #VHL-Prophecy

[21:31] <VCI-Bob> It was THE decisive, back breaking battle that broke the Philistines for good

[21:31] <VCI-Bob> they were never again a major power after that

[21:31] <Rich-VHL> 7then how is this foreign to Him

[21:32] <skip-VHL> 4palistenes _philistines

[21:32] <Rich-VHL> 7I was just wondering

[21:32] <VCI-Bob> For the LORD will rise up as at Mount Perazim, He will be stirred up as in the valley of Gibeon; To do His task, His unusual task, And to work His work, His extraordinary work. (Isaiah 28:21 NASB)

[21:32] <VCI-Bob> I don't know, Rich - I think this verse is significant, I just have not figured out why yet :)

[21:32] <VCI-Bob> Yes, Skip, could very well be

[21:32] <skip-VHL> 4great :-)corelation

[21:32] <VCI-Bob> !

[21:33] <Delta-VHL> I see two possible applications, but not sure

[21:33] <Rich-VHL> 7Oh maybe thats when Jesus comes back and settles it with the whole world

[21:33] <farrell-VHL> 2So it says the Lord will personally fight the enemies?

[21:33] <VCI-Bob> Yes, Farrell

[21:33] <Delta-VHL> Yeah, Rich, that is one of the scenarios I was thinking of too

[21:33] <farrell-VHL> 2Then, it would be Jesus, right?

[21:33] <VCI-Bob> The second thing mentioned there is also significant - "the valley of Gibeon" - another battle

[21:33] <Rich-VHL> 7the Holy One of God

[21:33] <VCI-Bob> anyone remember that one?

[21:34] <farrell-VHL> 2where in Scripture?

[21:34] <Delta-VHL> I know looking back at Israel's War of Independence it looked like they were losing, then all of a sudden, there was victory!

[21:34] <Bezalel-VHL> 2Joshua, and the Gibeonites lied about where they were from?

[21:34] <VCI-Bob> On the day the LORD gave the Amorites over to Israel, Joshua said to the LORD in the presence of Israel: "O sun, stand still over Gibeon, O moon, over the Valley of Aijalon." (Joshua 10:12 NIV)

[21:34] <VCI-Bob> So the sun stood still, and the moon stopped, till the nation avenged itself on its enemies, as it is written in the Book of Jashar. The sun stopped in the middle of the sky and delayed going down about a full day. (Joshua 10:13 NIV)

[21:34] <VCI-Bob> Yes, Bez :)

[21:35] <VCI-Bob> So - two very significant battles are described

[21:35] <Rich-VHL> 7wouldn't that be something to see

[21:35] <Delta-VHL> Sounds like God is going to have vengeance on His enemies and do as He sees fit in the process of it

[21:35] <farrell-VHL> 2Bob, is this telling about events later revealed to John in the Revelation?

[21:36] <VCI-Bob> Yes, Delta

[21:36] <skip-VHL> 4maybe it describes future battle scenes

[21:36] <farrell-VHL> 2Or do we see these things starting to happen today?

[21:36] <Delta-VHL> It also could correlate some with the death and resurrection of Yeshua

[21:36] <VCI-Bob> I don't know, Farrell

[21:36] <VCI-Bob> I think Skip is right

[21:36] <Delta-VHL> :-) Skip

[21:36] <skip-VHL> 4we have seen the 6 day war

[21:37] <VCI-Bob> look at the next verse for clue:

[21:37] <VCI-Bob> Now stop your mocking, or your chains will become heavier; the Lord, the LORD Almighty, has told me of the destruction decreed against the whole land. (Isaiah 28:22 NIV)

[21:37] <Rich-VHL> 7yea how it will be when Jesus finishes the evil one

[21:37] <VCI-Bob> And now do not carry on as scoffers, Lest your fetters be made stronger; For I have heard from the Lord GOD of hosts, Of decisive destruction on all the earth. (Isaiah 28:22 NASB)

[21:37] <Delta-VHL> all the earth...wow

[21:37] <VCI-Bob> God will "break out" as in the past

[21:37] <skip-VHL> 4awsome

[21:37] <VCI-Bob> seems clearer now, huh

[21:38] <VCI-Bob> He will "break out" against the mockers and scoffers

[21:38] <Rich-VHL> 7Oh the Glory of God

[21:38] <VCI-Bob> Yes, Amen

[21:38] <Rich-VHL> 7Amen Bob

[21:38] <Delta-VHL> There have already been two wars over Israel this generation....so what is next? It seems step by step?

[21:38] <skip-VHL> 4sounds like the noose is tightening

[21:38] <farrell-VHL> 2You don't know how this has blessed me tonight!! How encouraging to be reminded of just Who our God is!!

[21:39] <Clint-VHL> Bob are we talking Armageddon here?

[21:39] <VCI-Bob> Hallelujah!

[21:39] <VCI-Bob> Yes, probably, Clint

[21:39] <Delta-VHL> Sigh, I praise God, yet I think of innocent life lost too

[21:39] <littleone-VHL> 2Bob isn't in scripture, possibly Daniel, where mentions how the nations sourranding Israel and the North big Bear will come against Israel and in that they theLord will show His Great Power agaisnt them when they battle or attack Israel once more?

[21:40] <VCI-Bob> Yes, Littleone, Ezekiel 38 & 39

[21:40] <skip-VHL> 4and earthquakes and hail & thunderings

[21:40] <Rich-VHL> 7yes Clint when our Lord Jesus comes and takes His rightfull place on the throne of David

[21:40] <VCI-Bob> We should take a close look at those soon

[21:40] <littleone-VHL> 2Thank you Bob

[21:40] <VCI-Bob> someone asked a question about them on the forums recently that i have not yet responded to

[21:40] <Clint-VHL> In this same train of thought, is the U.S. on of the nations called and gathered to Armageddon?

[21:40] <VCI-Bob> yes, Clint

[21:41] <Rich-VHL> 7all nations Clint

[21:41] <skip-VHL> 4it wont be US then but ONE WORLD

[21:41] <Rich-VHL> 7yes skip the U.N.

[21:42] <skip-VHL> 4see from us to one :-(

[21:42] <Clint-VHL> The reason that I ask is not that I think she doesn't deserve it, it is because I don't seem to be able to find the US in scripture at least not clearly.

[21:42] <Delta-VHL> Which makes Believers and Jews fair game to the evil powers

[21:42] <farrell-VHL> 2If the U.S. is still a nation at that time, it will be against Israel. If we Christians are still here (if Bob is right:)), then we will have to choose to be loyal to God's chosen rather than our beloved country.

[21:42] <VCI-Bob> no, I can't either, at least not clearly, Clint

[21:42] <VCI-Bob> right, Delta

[21:43] <VCI-Bob> Very true, Farrell

[21:43] <Rich-VHL> 7thats true farrell

[21:43] <Delta-VHL> I wonder about the US, too, in scripture. Some say it is the "eagle" referred to. But I don't know.

[21:43] <Clint-VHL> Farrel that is the question. Is the US still a nation at that time?

[21:43] <VCI-Bob> I think that perhaps...

[21:43] <Rich-VHL> 7but that won't be hard to do farrell

[21:43] <farrell-VHL> 2we don't know YET

[21:44] <VCI-Bob> Isaiah 18 MAY refer to the US, but I don't know

[21:44] <VCI-Bob> take a look at it sometime

[21:44] <Clint-VHL> The US is not with Israel even now.

[21:44] <farrell-VHL> 2No, Rich, we can definitely trust our Lord:)

[21:44] <skip-VHL> 4your right clint

[21:44] <Delta-VHL> Clint there is at least a remnant of us with her now, and God honors that

[21:44] <Clint-VHL> Thanks Bob.

[21:44] <Rich-VHL> 7I think it is just this administration Clint

[21:45] <Rich-VHL> 7Amen farrell

[21:45] <Clint-VHL> The true Christians are Delta, but not the "Christian liberal world".

[21:45] <Clint-VHL> I wish it was Rich.

[21:45] <Delta-VHL> God still knows us, and that is comforting.

[21:46] <littleone-VHL> 2Any nation, including U.S. that separetes from God can not be with God

[21:46] <Clint-VHL> You are so right.

[21:46] <Rich-VHL> 7I hope it is Clint

[21:46] <farrell-VHL> 2Delta, Christians are already greatly outnumbered in America. Even Muslims are beginning to catch up.

[21:46] <Rich-VHL> 7Amen littleone

[21:47] <Delta-VHL> We may be outnumbered, but just as Israel is, we have the Lord God on our side! amen?

[21:47] <skip-VHL> 4amen

[21:47] <Rich-VHL> 7Amen Delta

[21:47] farrell-VHL [~farrell-VHL@proxy13.talkcity.com] has left #VHL-Prophecy

[21:47] <Delta-VHL> (trying to see the bright side...)

[21:47] <Clint-VHL> The liberal "church" is against Israel, and there are those in major seminaries that are teaching that the church has replaced Israel.

[21:48] <skip-VHL> 4dispensation

[21:48] <VCI-Bob> Before we continue in Isaiah, I'd like to note common pattern that keeps recurring in Isaiah: denouncements because she has been unfaithful, pronouncements of the dire consequences... and then.... always - a message of hope, restoration and salvation - we see it over and over and over

[21:48] <Bezalel-VHL> 2Yes, Bob.

[21:48] <Clint-VHL> Folks the Chruch is the bride of Christ and Israel is the wife of the Lord God "I AM".

[21:48] <Rich-VHL> 7I know Clint but we have to put up with that to show the world that Jesus is alive and is comming soon

[21:49] <skip-VHL> 4just when you think the battle is lost

[21:49] <littleone-VHL> 2Ame. Israel is real to Our Lord..Very much

[21:49] <littleone-VHL> 2Amen!

[21:49] <VCI-Bob> Amen! :)

[21:49] <Delta-VHL> Clint, I do not understand that, although I have heard it. I need time to catch up to it.

[21:49] <Clint-VHL> Take us back to Isaiah Bob.

[21:50] <VCI-Bob> OK - chapter 29

[21:51] <VCI-Bob> In verses 1-8, we will see a broad perspective of Jerusalem, over 2500 years....

[21:51] <VCI-Bob> First the woes, then the deliverance

[21:51] <VCI-Bob> Woe to you, Ariel, Ariel, the city where David settled! Add year to year and let your cycle of festivals go on. (Isaiah 29:1 NIV)

[21:51] <VCI-Bob> Yet I will besiege Ariel; she will mourn and lament, she will be to me like an altar hearth. (Isaiah 29:2 NIV)

[21:51] <VCI-Bob> I will encamp against you all around; I will encircle you with towers and set up my siege works against you. (Isaiah 29:3 NIV)

[21:51] <VCI-Bob> Ariel is Jerusalem

[21:51] <Clint-VHL> Delta maybe we will be able to discuss it in great detail when Bob gets to that theology.

[21:52] <Rich-VHL> 7yes it is Bob

[21:52] <Clint-VHL> Right.

[21:52] <VCI-Bob> this is interesting - God is saying "I will beseige Ariel"

[21:52] <VCI-Bob> not the Babylonians, or the Romans, "I will"

[21:53] <Rich-VHL> 7when the times of the gentiles are fullfilled?

[21:53] <Delta-VHL> Didn't that happen already?

[21:53] <Delta-VHL> :-(

[21:53] <VCI-Bob> Yes, Delta, this has already happened

[21:53] <Delta-VHL> whew! :-)

[21:53] <VCI-Bob> verses 1-3 are in the past

[21:53] <Rich-VHL> 7already OK

[21:53] <VCI-Bob> verse 4, is in the interim:

[21:53] <VCI-Bob> Brought low, you will speak from the ground; your speech will mumble out of the dust. Your voice will come ghostlike from the earth; out of the dust your speech will whisper. (Isaiah 29:4 NIV)

[21:53] <VCI-Bob> the humbling process

[21:54] <VCI-Bob> over 20 centuries

[21:54] <Clint-VHL> Could that mean that it is in in the sense that God hardened Pharoah's heart in Exodus.

[21:54] <VCI-Bob> "your voice will come ghostlike" - to me, carries a connotation of the Holocaust

[21:54] <VCI-Bob> BUT!

[21:55] <VCI-Bob> All of sudden:

[21:55] <VCI-Bob> But your many enemies will become like fine dust, the ruthless hordes like blown chaff. Suddenly, in an instant, (Isaiah 29:5 NIV)

[21:55] <VCI-Bob> the LORD Almighty will come with thunder and earthquake and great noise, with windstorm and tempest and flames of a devouring fire. (Isaiah 29:6 NIV)

[21:55] <VCI-Bob> Then the hordes of all the nations that fight against Ariel, that attack her and her fortress and besiege her, will be as it is with a dream, with a vision in the night-- (Isaiah 29:7 NIV)

[21:55] <VCI-Bob> This is future

[21:55] <VCI-Bob> We see a broad perspective of Israel's history here

[21:55] <VCI-Bob> the woes, the humbling, and the future deliverance

[21:55] <Rich-VHL> 7Amen and Amen

[21:55] <VCI-Bob> When the Lord Himself comes to defend Jerusalem

[21:56] <VCI-Bob> Isn't this exciting!

[21:56] <Delta-VHL> I am all for the deliverance! Israel has never fully been free this century!

[21:56] <Rich-VHL> 7very Bob Lets all praise His Holy Name

[21:56] <VCI-Bob> God Himself will fight against "the hordes of all the nations" that are attacking Jerusalem

[21:57] <VCI-Bob> Praise be to the Lamb of God!

[21:57] <Rich-VHL> 7Amen

[21:57] <VCI-Bob> The great Right Arm of the Lord, who will display His great power and glory!

[21:57] <Delta-VHL> Praise be to the Lion of Judah

[21:57] <VCI-Bob> Mighty to deliver!

[21:58] <VCI-Bob> And then Israel's enemies will become like "fine dust" - Hallelujah!

[21:58] <littleone-VHL> 2Is that related with Ezequial 38 & 39 Bob?

[21:58] <VCI-Bob> Yes, Littleone

[21:58] <Rich-VHL> 7our Lord Jesus comes as a triumphant King this time to take His rightfull place as King of all of creation

[21:58] <littleone-VHL> 2Thank you again

[21:58] <VCI-Bob> Amen, Rich!

[21:59] <Delta-VHL> AMEN!

[21:59] <VCI-Bob> Then the hordes of all the nations that fight against Ariel, that attack her and her fortress and besiege her, will be as it is with a dream, with a vision in the night-- (Isaiah 29:7 NIV)

[21:59] <VCI-Bob> as when a hungry man dreams that he is eating, but he awakens, and his hunger remains; as when a thirsty man dreams that he is drinking, but he awakens faint, with his thirst unquenched. So will it be with the hordes of all the nations that fight against Mount Zion. (Isaiah 29:8 NIV)

[21:59] <Rich-VHL> 7and the Glory of it will shine on forever and forever

[21:59] <Delta-VHL> Doesn't "Ariel" also mean "Lioness"?

[21:59] <VCI-Bob> The nations should be warned - it is FOOLISH to fight against Mount Zion

[21:59] <VCI-Bob> Yes, Delta, or Lion of God

[21:59] <Clint-VHL> In what sense will God fight against Ariel "Jerusalem"? Using the armies of the world or in some natural "Nature" way?

[22:00] <Delta-VHL> So Israel is God's heart in more than one way!

[22:00] <VCI-Bob> Which verse, Clint?

[22:00] Clint-VHL [~Clint-VHL@proxy3.talkcity.com] has left #VHL-Prophecy

[22:00] <Delta-VHL> uh oh, we lost Clint

[22:00] <VCI-Bob> yeah

[22:00] <Rich-VHL> 7he will be back I'm sure Bob

[22:01] <littleone-VHL> 2Is the apple of His Eye. Always Has and always will

[22:01] <littleone-VHL> 2be His Israel

[22:01] <VCI-Bob> Yes :)

[22:01] <Delta-VHL> Storms coming in folks, I gotta go...

[22:01] <skip-VHL> 4verse 24 is good

[22:01] <Delta-VHL> Shalom!

[22:01] Delta-VHL [~Delta-VHL@proxy14.talkcity.com] has quit IRC (Delta-VHL has left the room)

[22:01] <VCI-Bob> Shalom, Delta

[22:01] <Rich-VHL> 7yes littleone and all the world will know it

[22:01] <littleone-VHL> 2Shalom Delta.

[22:01] <skip-VHL> 4how I pray for rain in TX

[22:02] <skip-VHL> 4Shalom

[22:02] <Rich-VHL> 7see ya Delta

[22:02] <VCI-Bob> Yes, Skip?

[22:02] <littleone-VHL> 2I known that since I have been a little girl

[22:03] <VCI-Bob> Friends, this has been an excellent chat - thanks so much for your participation!

[22:03] <littleone-VHL> 2The same here Bob. God Bless you

[22:03] <VCI-Bob> The Word of God is very exciting! So much good stuff - gems everywhere :)

[22:03] <littleone-VHL> 2Shalom to all with love

[22:03] <Rich-VHL> 7thats because you were chosen by God before the foundation of the earth littleone

[22:03] <skip-VHL> 4thanks for having us BOB

[22:04] <VCI-Bob> May the Lord bless you all greatly, and make His face shine on you.

[22:04] <Rich-VHL> 7have a very good night Bob

[22:04] Clint-VHL [~Clint-VHL@proxy1.talkcity.com] has joined #VHL-Prophecy

[22:04] <skip-VHL> 4SHALOM DEAR FRIENDS

[22:04] Kathy-VHL [~Kathy-VHL@proxy1.talkcity.com] has joined #VHL-Prophecy

[22:04] <Rich-VHL> 7good night skip

[22:04] <Clint-VHL> I got bumped.

[22:04] <VCI-Bob> Oh, Clint's back, and Kathy's here too! :)

[22:05] <Kathy-VHL> hi to all

[22:05] <VCI-Bob> I was just going to leave :)

[22:05] <skip-VHL> 4Hi KATHY

[22:05] <littleone-VHL> 2That I personally know Rich, God has shosen me and taken me by His side in a long jurney to go back home again..one day and be with Him at His side

[22:05] <Bezalel-VHL> 2Hi Kathy.

[22:05] <Clint-VHL> Hi Kathy.

[22:05] <Rich-VHL> 7I knew you'd be back Clint

[22:05] <Kathy-VHL> Hi Bob just came home

[22:05] <VCI-Bob> Hi Kathy! Good to see you!

[22:05] <Rich-VHL> 7hi Kathy

[22:05] <Kathy-VHL> I have sure been missing yall I have had to work and couldnt get here

[22:05] <Clint-VHL> X-ray vision Bob?

[22:05] <Rich-VHL> 7Amen littleone

[22:05] <Kathy-VHL> have had to read the next day all that you tlaked about

[22:05] <VCI-Bob> You'll have to make sure and read the transcript tomorrow, Kathy

[22:06] <VCI-Bob> we examined Isaiah 27-29

[22:06] <Kathy-VHL> I will I always look forward to it when I missed being here

[22:06] <Clint-VHL> Bob I was asking about God fighting against Ariel.

[22:07] skip-VHL [~skip-VHL@proxy14.talkcity.com] has quit IRC (skip-VHL has left the room)

[22:07] <Clint-VHL> Does He use nature or the armies of the world.

[22:07] <VCI-Bob> Yes, Clint - in verses 1-3?

[22:07] <VCI-Bob> He used both the Babylonians and the Romans

[22:07] <VCI-Bob> to fulfill those verses

[22:08] <Clint-VHL> The reason I asked is because God used such a personal reference "I".

[22:08] <VCI-Bob> yes, that's a good point

[22:08] honeybee-VHL [~honeybee-VHL@proxy13.talkcity.com] has joined #VHL-Prophecy

[22:08] <VCI-Bob> Welcome, honeybee

[22:08] <Rich-VHL> 7hi honeybee

[22:09] <Clint-VHL> It sounds as though He was personally involved such as throughing a "right cross" instead of having someone else do it.

[22:09] honeybee-VHL [~honeybee-VHL@proxy13.talkcity.com] has quit IRC (honeybee-VHL has left the room)

[22:09] <Rich-VHL> 7honeybee left already

[22:09] <VCI-Bob> yes, and we can see other places where He says something like that, for example, in the destruction of Damascus prophecy

[22:10] <Clint-VHL> Yes you're right.

[22:10] <Rich-VHL> 7that is very close to comming to pass Bob

[22:10] <VCI-Bob> "I will set fire to the walls of Damascus; " (Jeremiah 49:27)

[22:10] <VCI-Bob> Yes, Rich, I think it is

[22:11] <Clint-VHL> Me too.

[22:11] <VCI-Bob> Kathy, since you are the newcomer, anything you want to talk about before I depart?

[22:11] <Rich-VHL> 7isn't it in Issaiah where it tells of damascus being nuked

[22:11] <Kathy-VHL> Bob why does God not like Damascus so much it seems He really has it in for them

[22:12] <VCI-Bob> Yes, Rich

[22:12] <VCI-Bob> yes, sure seems that way, huh Kathy :)

[22:12] <Clint-VHL> Bob I asked a question a while back concerning the antichrist.

[22:12] <Kathy-VHL> yea I was just wondering why Damascus

[22:12] <VCI-Bob> I would say, Kathy, because of their intense involvement in the opposition to Israel

[22:12] <Clint-VHL> Never mind. We can talk about it later.

[22:13] <Rich-VHL> 7they are against His Holy people Kathy

[22:13] <Kathy-VHL> I know that but a lot of cities are just wondered why Damascus

[22:13] <Clint-VHL> Damascus refers back to Babylon and the capitivity.

[22:14] <VCI-Bob> In an sense, it's just part of the plan, to bring glory to the Lord and open Israel's eyes - Damascus is just a part of the process

[22:14] <Clint-VHL> Babylon has always been involved in the worship of false gods.

[22:14] <Kathy-VHL> ok didnt know if maybe there was some significance

[22:14] <Rich-VHL> 7I think so Bob Amen

[22:15] <VCI-Bob> Well, if you look at Ezekiel, for example...

[22:15] <Rich-VHL> 7yes Bob

[22:15] <VCI-Bob> God pronounces judgment on several nations and groups

[22:15] <VCI-Bob> and Jeremiah

[22:15] <VCI-Bob> They all play a part

[22:16] <Kathy-VHL> God has always singled out some cities and nations more than others

[22:16] <Rich-VHL> 7to bring the Glory of the Lord back to this earth and especialy Israel

[22:16] <VCI-Bob> I think, as we step back and see the "big picture" - we see that all of these things are to the end that Ezekiel states over and over: "Then they will know I am the Lord"

[22:16] <Kathy-VHL> for his blessings and curses

[22:16] <VCI-Bob> Right

[22:17] <VCI-Bob> They, like us, are all part of the overall purpose of God

[22:17] <VCI-Bob> to bring Him glory

[22:17] <VCI-Bob> some bring Him glory by their rebellion and resistance

[22:17] <Rich-VHL> 7Amen Amen Amen

[22:17] <VCI-Bob> other by their repentance and receiving His grace

[22:18] <Kathy-VHL> that is true of individuals also Bob

[22:18] <VCI-Bob> yes

[22:18] <Clint-VHL> Got to go folks. Will talk to you next time, God willing. Enjoyed very much. Will pray for Israel and all of the Lord's servants on VHL chat. Love in Yeshua. Goodnight.

[22:19] <Kathy-VHL> we dont always stop to think about it that way but it is true

[22:19] <VCI-Bob> Shalom, Clint!

[22:19] <Rich-VHL> 7see ya Clint

[22:19] <Kathy-VHL> Good night Clint

[22:19] <VCI-Bob> Thanks for being a part of this! :)

[22:19] <Clint-VHL> Night.

[22:19] <Clint-VHL> :-):-):-)

[22:19] <VCI-Bob> :)

[22:19] Clint-VHL [~Clint-VHL@proxy1.talkcity.com] has quit IRC (Clint-VHL has left the room)

[22:20] <VCI-Bob> Hey Bez, yer pretty quiet tonight :)

[22:20] <Rich-VHL> 7I was just going to ask that of Bez mysrlf Bob

[22:20] <Kathy-VHL> Bob I sure hate I have been missing the chat for a few weeks now but I sure hope things will slow down a bit so I can get back in here

[22:21] <VCI-Bob> Yes, Kathy! I always enjoy your contributions!

[22:21] <Kathy-VHL> it is amazing how attached one becomes to all of you guys

[22:21] Delta-VHL [~Delta-VHL@proxy6.talkcity.com] has joined #VHL-Prophecy

[22:21] <VCI-Bob> We have so many wonderful people that join in here!

[22:21] <VCI-Bob> Welcome back, Delta! Quick storm, huh!

[22:22] <Rich-VHL> 7thats because we all love each other here Kathy

[22:22] <Kathy-VHL> I know it has been such a blessing and learning experience

[22:22] <Delta-VHL> (blushing) My husband teased me....it was a car backfiring.

[22:22] <Delta-VHL> (BLUSH)

[22:22] <Kathy-VHL> Hi Delta

[22:22] <Bezalel-VHL> 2Got here late, tonight, and am tired from running around with my 81 year-old mother.

[22:22] <Rich-VHL> 7Hey Delta

[22:22] <VCI-Bob> OK, Rich, Bez, Kathy, Littleone, Delta - I'm gonna take off now, for real this time :)

[22:23] <VCI-Bob> Shalom to all of you :)

[22:23] <Delta-VHL> Have a good night!

[22:23] <Delta-VHL> Shalom!

[22:23] <VCI-Bob> Thanks :)

[22:23] <Bezalel-VHL> 2Shalom, Bob.

*** Log file closed: 8/24/00 10:23:33 PM