*** Log file opened: 7/20/00 7:28:26 PM

[19:34] Mike-VHL [~Mike-VHL@proxy1.talkcity.com] has joined #VHL-Chitchat

[19:34] <VCI-Bob> Welcome, Mike!

[19:36] <VCI-Bob> How are you tonight?

[19:37] <Mike-VHL> 4GREETINGS! This is Willmar, Minnesota in the United States of America. This chat line interests me because I once lived in the Holy Land. What say someone please?:-)

[19:37] <VCI-Bob> Just you and me so far, Mike - where did you live, and when?

[19:38] grizz-VHL [~grizz-VHL@proxy12.talkcity.com] has joined #VHL-Chitchat

[19:38] <VCI-Bob> Hi Grizz! Welcome my friend! :)

[19:39] <Mike-VHL> 4I live in Willmar, Minnesota, in the USA, as stated above.

[19:39] <grizz-VHL> shalom my friends

[19:39] <VCI-Bob> yes, where did you live in the Holy Land?

[19:40] <VCI-Bob> How ya doin tonight, Grizz?

[19:40] <Mike-VHL> 4I was in Amman. Jordan from 1954-56.

[19:40] <VCI-Bob> wow - must have been quite an experience

[19:40] <grizz-VHL> BOB what is going in ISREAL TONIGHT

[19:40] <VCI-Bob> were you there for the military?

[19:40] <grizz-VHL> doing great

[19:41] <VCI-Bob> Grizz, I have not heard anything definitive from Camp David yet

[19:41] <VCI-Bob> other than that they are still talking

[19:41] <grizz-VHL> nothing here either

[19:41] <Mike-VHL> 4I am handicapped and cannot type very fast.

[19:42] <VCI-Bob> That's ok Mike - no hurry, take your time

[19:42] <grizz-VHL> thats ok MIKE i read slow anyhow

[19:42] <VCI-Bob> I did see, Grizz, that there are several interesting bills before the Knesset

[19:43] <VCI-Bob> From Israelwire:

[19:43] <VCI-Bob> Presented by Likud MK Limor Livnat, calls for the annexing of Judea & Samaria as integral parts of Israel in response to a unilateral declaration of Palestinian statehood as is planned by PLO Authority (PA) Chairman Yassir Arafat for September 13 of this year. The vote was 51 to 40 in favor of the bill.

[19:43] <VCI-Bob> Presented by Likud MK Silvan Shalom, calling for a simple majority of all registered eligible voters to vote in favor of any deal between Israel and the PA in a national referendum. The vote was 50 to 38 in favor of the bill.

[19:43] <Mike-VHL> 4I made many business trips into East Jerusalem with my parents.

[19:44] Bezalel-VHL [~Bezalel-VHL@proxy16.talkcity.com] has joined #VHL-Chitchat

[19:44] <VCI-Bob> any recollections, Mike?

[19:44] <VCI-Bob> Welcoem, Bez :)

[19:44] <Bezalel-VHL> Good evening/morning, All

[19:45] <VCI-Bob> Bez, how was your seminar on the book of Revelation?

[19:45] <VCI-Bob> this is a first in VHL chat - 4 men and no women :)

[19:45] <grizz-VHL> Bob would you please explain the word Likud

[19:46] <VCI-Bob> Sure Grizz

[19:46] <Bezalel-VHL> Pretty good. I learned a lot, but as always, a study of Revelation give us blessings:-)

[19:46] <VCI-Bob> it's one of the major political parties in Israel....

[19:46] <VCI-Bob> the one that Netanyahu and Ariel Sharon belong to...

[19:46] <grizz-VHL> ok thanx

[19:46] <VCI-Bob> tends to be more conservative regarding giving back the land

[19:47] <VCI-Bob> they are the primary opposition party to Barak now

[19:47] <VCI-Bob> Anything special you wish to share, Bez?

[19:47] <Mike-VHL> 4Yes, I was in the 5th and 6th grades, took school by correspondence from America, and while my father went about his business in Jerusalem as a sanitary engineer I would visit places of Christian interest with my mother.

[19:48] <VCI-Bob> must have been quite an experience for a young lad, Mike! You were blessed!

[19:48] <Bezalel-VHL> When was that Mike?

[19:48] <VCI-Bob> he said 1954-56, Bez

[19:48] <Bezalel-VHL> Thanks

[19:48] <VCI-Bob> sure :)

[19:49] <Bezalel-VHL> My very short, and alcohol obliterated visit to Israel was in 1983....a lot of things have changed both there and in my life:-)

[19:50] <VCI-Bob> Praise God for that, Bez!

[19:50] <VCI-Bob> I've never been there, but hope to go very soon!

[19:50] <Bezalel-VHL> I praise Him every chance I get.

[19:50] <Mike-VHL> 4Yes, I brought my school books along from Amman and could read my lessons each day. I visited the Church of the Holy Sepulchre many times.

[19:51] <VCI-Bob> Must have been hard to live in a foreign city, huh?

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[19:53] <Bezalel-VHL> I'm trying to picture Jerusalum then....before '67 and '72 wars, and Israeli control of the area. Was it pretty "wild and wooly" at the time, Mike?

[19:53] <VCI-Bob> Oh give thanks to the LORD, for He is good; For His lovingkindness is everlasting.

[19:53] <VCI-Bob> Welcome, Called!

[19:53] <Mike-VHL> 4There were many Americans living in Amman who worked with my father and some spoke Arabic and I knew a few words.

[19:53] <called_out-VHL> 11Shalom Bob and Room :)

[19:54] <called_out-VHL> 1110I will change colors

[19:55] <VCI-Bob> Bez, what you said earlier reminds me of Psalm 107 - a celebration of God's delivering power for those in distress

[19:56] Jerry-VHL [~Jerry-VHL@proxy1.talkcity.com] has joined #VHL-Chitchat

[19:56] <Mike-VHL> 4We once made a trip over to Petra, and we flew to Cairo in the summer of 1955 for a couple weeks.

[19:56] <Jerry-VHL> Shalom to all

[19:56] <VCI-Bob> Let them give thanks to the LORD for his unfailing love and his wonderful deeds for men, for he satisfies the thirsty and fills the hungry with good things. (Psalms 107:8-9 NIV)

[19:56] <VCI-Bob> Shalon, Jerry!

[19:56] <Jerry-VHL> I can only stay but a short time this evening

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[19:57] <VCI-Bob> what an wonderful experience, Mike! I can't want to go there myself

[19:57] <VCI-Bob> Welcome, Gran!

[19:57] <Gran-VHL> 5:->:)

[19:57] <Jerry-VHL> Hi Gran

[19:57] <Bezalel-VHL> Gulp, Bob. That Psalm 107 strikes pretty close to home:-)

[19:57] <called_out-VHL> 10Hey Gran :)

[19:57] <VCI-Bob> Welcome, all to Bible prophecy chat

[19:57] <Gran-VHL> 5:) Hi roomies whats up

[19:57] <Jerry-VHL> Bob do you start with prayer

[19:58] <VCI-Bob> Yeah, Bez :) for me too - God's amazing ability to rescue us

[19:58] <VCI-Bob> yes, Jerry, let's :)

[19:58] <VCI-Bob> You may lead us :)

[19:58] Debi-VHL [~Debi-VHL@proxy4.talkcity.com] has joined #VHL-Chitchat

[19:58] <Jerry-VHL> Who

[19:58] <VCI-Bob> Welcome, Debi!

[19:58] <Gran-VHL> 5Got in the wrong room and saw Grizz with a crown surpeised me

[19:58] <VCI-Bob> You, Jerry!

[19:58] <VCI-Bob> Yeah, Grizz got the crown in the other room, somehow

[19:58] <Debi-VHL> Hi Bob, is the prophecy chat?

[19:59] <Gran-VHL> 5Hummmm

[19:59] <VCI-Bob> yes, it is, Debi! Glad you are here!

[19:59] <Jerry-VHL> Oh Lord we come together in the mighty name of your Son Y'shua to give glory to your Word and Name

[19:59] <VCI-Bob> Yes Lord

[19:59] <Debi-VHL> The rooms are mis-labeled

[19:59] <VCI-Bob> I know :)

[19:59] <Mike-VHL> 4I am going to have to check out for now, I have other things to do. See you again another day.

[19:59] <Jerry-VHL> We come to reason together as we are called

[19:59] <VCI-Bob> See you, Mike - thanks for coming! Come again!

[19:59] <Gran-VHL> 5God bless Mike

[20:00] <Jerry-VHL> We come to seek your wisdom and guidence

[20:00] <VCI-Bob> Yes, Lord

[20:00] <Jerry-VHL> We come to support your family

[20:00] <Jerry-VHL> We come as one for you have called us to unity in your Word

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[20:00] <VCI-Bob> Yes, Lord, thank you fear hearing us, we who are but dust

[20:00] <VCI-Bob> for hearing

[20:01] <Jerry-VHL> Please bring forth Your Truth as we share this time and space and may the hearts of all be humble to You

[20:01] <VCI-Bob> yes, Amen

[20:01] <called_out-VHL> 10We thank you for your promise that where 2 or more are gathered in your name you will be in our midst. We honor and praise your Holy Name. Thank you for each and every one in this chat room.

[20:01] <Debi-VHL> Amen

[20:01] <VCI-Bob> Welcome all to Bible prophecy chat - feel free to comment, or ask questions, or introduce topics of interest

[20:01] <Jerry-VHL> In the name of Your beloved the Name above all name whom all shall bow to

[20:01] <VCI-Bob> Amen

[20:01] <Bezalel-VHL> Amen

[20:02] <called_out-VHL> 10Amen

[20:02] <Gran-VHL> 5thank you Lord

[20:02] <Jerry-VHL> The HOLY ONE OF ISRAEL

[20:02] <Debi-VHL> 6Amen, and glory to the Lord

[20:02] <Gran-VHL> 5Amen

[20:02] <Jerry-VHL> YOUR ANOINTED

[20:02] <Jerry-VHL> Y'SHUA

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[20:02] <VCI-Bob> All hail the power of Jesus name!

[20:02] <Jerry-VHL> WHO IS THE HEAD OF ALL THINGS

[20:02] <VCI-Bob> Welcome, Skip!

[20:02] <Gran-VHL> 5well it seems that slick willie is leaving the fellows with Madalane again

[20:02] <Jerry-VHL> AMEN

[20:02] <Debi-VHL> 6Hey Skip:-)

[20:02] <grizz-VHL> PRAISE JESUS ARE SAVIOR ahmen praise youLORD praise YOU what a wondrus SAVIOR we serve

[20:03] <skip-VHL> 4hi PTL I finally made it thru

[20:03] <VCI-Bob> Yes, Gran, it was a surprise that they stayed on after Clinton left

[20:03] <Gran-VHL> 5well hi grizz lost your srown huh??

[20:03] <Bezalel-VHL> Yes, they stayed after they said they were leaving....

[20:03] <Gran-VHL> 5I am still praying that Barak will leave\

[20:03] <VCI-Bob> good Gran

[20:03] <Gran-VHL> 5we heard yesterday that he was leaving but that didn't happen

[20:03] <Jerry-VHL> I feel like this flip floping is to feel the temperature of the people.

[20:04] <VCI-Bob> because the whole objective is to whittle away more and more from Israel

[20:04] <VCI-Bob> while Arafat concedes nothing at all

[20:04] <grizz-VHL> no i still have the one i need reerved in heaven so i can give or through it at the feet of my SAVIOR

[20:04] <Jerry-VHL> To see if this will indeed provoke a violent reaction

[20:04] <VCI-Bob> in fact, he is not even prepared to sign any kind of "peace agreement"

[20:04] <Gran-VHL> 5Bob did you read what Delta has dug up aout Arafat

[20:05] <skip-VHL> 4he doesn't want peace

[20:05] <called_out-VHL> 10About his cousin Gran?

[20:05] <Gran-VHL> 5he was close to Hitler during the holacoast but used a different name

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[20:05] <VCI-Bob> yes, I did, Gran - that he is a relative of the Mufti of Jerusalem from earlier this century, who colloborated with Hitler

[20:05] <Jerry-VHL> Are you serious? Gran

[20:05] <VCI-Bob> and did other devious things

[20:05] <Gran-VHL> 5unless I read it wrong I thought it was Arafat

[20:05] <VCI-Bob> but - let's remember, God is directing all of these events to His desired end

[20:05] <Jerry-VHL> Can this info be confirmed?

[20:06] <Bezalel-VHL> You're right Gran. Delta said he went to school in Egypt and changed his name.

[20:06] <Gran-VHL> 5but at least we know that he was involved with that Hiltler cult

[20:06] <VCI-Bob> I had read it before, Jerry

[20:07] <skip-VHL> 4he is worse than hitler and also has USA backing him

[20:07] <Bezalel-VHL> Bob, do you see the summit failure, and violence thereafter as setting the stage for the anti-christ coming to the resuce with a 7 year peace covenant?

[20:07] <VCI-Bob> The question that we ask as we observe these things is "what is God doing" through all this

[20:07] <VCI-Bob> and the answers are in His Word

[20:08] <Gran-VHL> 5yes Bob

[20:08] <VCI-Bob> Bez, regardless of the summit outcome, it seems that violence there is inevitable, yes

[20:08] <skip-VHL> 4amenBOB

[20:08] <VCI-Bob> and ultimately will "set the stage" as you say, though in what ways we can't be quite sure

[20:08] <Gran-VHL> 5of course but it is just what I told Stan it hurts me so much to think about what may happen to Isreal as a people before it is all over

[20:08] <skip-VHL> 4we must pray for Stan and everyone else

[20:08] <VCI-Bob> though God has given us lots of clues

[20:08] <VCI-Bob> yes, Skip

[20:08] <VCI-Bob> and Gran

[20:08] <Gran-VHL> 5yes Skip I sure do that

[20:09] <VCI-Bob> difficult times ahead

[20:09] <Jerry-VHL> I think these times may bring believer's to the aid of Israel in some way

[20:09] <VCI-Bob> But remember, that God rescued us individually, by His grace...

[20:09] <skip-VHL> 4but GLORIOUS times also

[20:09] <VCI-Bob> when we were in very difficult circumstances

[20:09] <Gran-VHL> 5Bob off the subject but have you heard anything from Nega lately miss him

[20:10] <VCI-Bob> No, Gran, I have not seen her at all!

[20:10] <Bezalel-VHL> Hi Den!

[20:10] <Gran-VHL> 5oh her???

[20:10] <Den-VHL> Hello, Grace and Peace to you all

[20:10] <Gran-VHL> 5oopppss

[20:10] <called_out-VHL> 10Hi Den

[20:10] <Jerry-VHL> Blessings Den

[20:11] <Den-VHL> KThank

[20:11] <Gran-VHL> 5Den shalom

[20:11] <skip-VHL> 4hi den

[20:11] <Den-VHL> Thank you, what is the concensus on the failed settlement

[20:11] <VCI-Bob> Let them give thanks to the LORD for his unfailing love and his wonderful deeds for men. (Psalms 107:31 NIV)

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[20:11] <VCI-Bob> Welcome, Kathy!

[20:11] <Kathy-VHL> Hi Bob thanks

[20:11] <skip-VHL> 4hi Kathy

[20:12] <Kathy-VHL> I missed last week had to work

[20:12] <Gran-VHL> 5Kathy shalam

[20:12] <Kathy-VHL> Hi Skip my friend

[20:12] <Jerry-VHL> Bob do you think what is going on now will serve to bring Christians to want to know and understand more concerning what's happening with Israel and How is appies to them personally

[20:12] <Kathy-VHL> and Gran

[20:12] <skip-VHL> 4:-)

[20:12] <Debi-VHL> 6Bob, did you read what I wrote?

[20:12] <Jerry-VHL> blessing Kathy

[20:12] <Kathy-VHL> thks Jerry

[20:12] <Gran-VHL> 5Does anyone have an update on the talks today? My tv went out so have not heard anymore since this AM

[20:12] <Kathy-VHL> you too

[20:13] <VCI-Bob> No Debi, I missed it, sorry - let me scroll back

[20:13] <Kathy-VHL> I have not heard anything either Gran

[20:13] <Jerry-VHL> I haven't heard anything

[20:13] <called_out-VHL> 10Clinton left for Japan

[20:13] <VCI-Bob> I don't see it Debi - please repeat, ok? :)

[20:13] <VCI-Bob> Have not heard much, Gran

[20:13] <Gran-VHL> 5As far as this AM they were still at it leaveing madalane to oversee the talks

[20:14] <skip-VHL> 4The feeling I get here with family &friends is an increased interest

[20:14] <VCI-Bob> Jerry, I hope that Christians will in fact read their Bibles more to inquire into God's grand plan

[20:14] <called_out-VHL> 10Left Barak and Arafat to talk with Madelyn

[20:14] <Gran-VHL> 5yes Clinton left for Japan

[20:14] <Kathy-VHL> boy that aught to be good

[20:14] <VCI-Bob> which involves Israel

[20:14] <Jerry-VHL> Skip what do you mean?

[20:15] <called_out-VHL> 10People at my church are showing a renewed interest in what is going on in Israel

[20:15] <VCI-Bob> you know why I think so many believers don't know "the big picture"? cuz they mostly read the New Testament and largely ignore huge sections of the Bible

[20:15] <VCI-Bob> that's great, called!

[20:15] <Jerry-VHL> That is great called out

[20:15] <Gran-VHL> 5I will just have to ask who is praying for Israel I know our church does each week

[20:15] <called_out-VHL> 10We had serious prayer for them last night.

[20:15] <Gran-VHL> 5We love Gods children Israel

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[20:15] <VCI-Bob> Debi, still waiting for your question/comment :)

[20:15] <called_out-VHL> 10There are still bible believing churches in the US

[20:15] <VCI-Bob> Welcome, Jeff :)

[20:16] <jeff-VHL> hello

[20:16] <skip-VHL> 4interest in what peace talks will unfold and end time time line

[20:16] <Debi-VHL> 6It's too long and it will get lost again.

[20:16] <Jerry-VHL> Blessing Jeff

[20:16] <VCI-Bob> I'm sorry, Debi

[20:16] <Gran-VHL> 5Jeff shalom

[20:16] <Gran-VHL> 5:)

[20:16] <Kathy-VHL> my Church didnt mention it and I was going to ask for prayer for Israel when they asked for prayer requests but they didnt do that either

[20:16] <Jerry-VHL> Okay Skip, I get confuse easy on this board because it moves so quick

[20:16] <jeff-VHL> how is everyone

[20:16] <VCI-Bob> Yes, it does move quick

[20:16] <skip-VHL> 4:-)

[20:16] <Den-VHL> I heard, from a newscast, that Barak offered more than he was authorized to-and Arafat still would not talk[20:16] <VCI-Bob> and if I miss comments or questions, please repeat :)

[20:17] <called_out-VHL> 10Arafat isn't going to agree to anything

[20:17] <Gran-VHL> 5:) Bob that means there is a lot of interest in my heart Israel Praise God

[20:17] <VCI-Bob> Yes, Den, Barak has exceeded his mandate

[20:17] <Jerry-VHL> I am afraid that someone might attempt to assassinate Barak

[20:17] <VCI-Bob> which is why there are a lot of angry people in Israel

[20:17] <Den-VHL> Is the central question the partition of Jerusalem?

[20:17] <Debi-VHL> 6There will be no peace talks according to the bible.

[20:17] <Gran-VHL> 5One stalling point is that Barak will not give Arafat a part of Jerusalem as he wants but will share it with him

[20:18] <VCI-Bob> Right, exactly - Jerusalem is the focus point

[20:18] <VCI-Bob> as we would expect, right?

[20:18] <Kathy-VHL> how can good and evil share anything

[20:18] <Gran-VHL> 5it has been a tri part city for many years

[20:18] <VCI-Bob> because it's the place the Lord has chosen for HIS name

[20:18] <VCI-Bob> and because it is the place from which Jesus will ultimately rule

[20:18] <Gran-VHL> 5but Arafat wants the church of the sepalcure or one of the Christian churches can't remember which one it is

[20:18] <Jerry-VHL> This is the city of the Great King and where Jesus will have His Throne

[20:18] <Debi-VHL> 6From the Temple Mount

[20:18] <VCI-Bob> and so the "evil forces" will contend for it until the end

[20:19] <Den-VHL> Yes. is anyone in Israel seriously thinking that giving part of Jerusalem to Arafat will help anything in the long run?

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[20:19] <skip-VHL> 4what do the people in the 95%of west bank think of him offering it?

[20:19] <VCI-Bob> Hard to believe that anyone could be that naive, Den, huh?

[20:19] <Kathy-VHL> No I mean how do they think they can really share

[20:19] <VCI-Bob> insanity

[20:19] <Gran-VHL> 5Den it seems that people there are finally waking up to what Barak has done with Isreal

[20:19] <Jerry-VHL> Jesus is supposed to enter into the east gate, the gate that is sealed up and this is the area that they want control of, is this correct Bob

[20:20] <Gran-VHL> 5Bob have you heard any more about the large groups there of protestors Stan mentioned them on Mon

[20:20] <VCI-Bob> yes, Jerry - but they want it all

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[20:20] <called_out-VHL> 10I wouldn't want to be them when Jesus returns, and they are in his way.

[20:20] <Den-VHL> Gran, what is Barak trying to do, in your opinion?

[20:20] <VCI-Bob> the "official" Palestinian maps in Arafat's office don't even have ISRAEL on them - only a nation of "Palestine" where Israel is

[20:20] <VCI-Bob> that is their goal

[20:20] <VCI-Bob> not peace

[20:20] <skip-VHL> 4amen called

[20:20] <Debi-VHL> 6Bob, do you think that all of the fires, grasshopper plagues in Texas, Aids outbreak in Mexico and drought are to do with the end times?

[20:20] <Jerry-VHL> I would like to pray for those who ar fasting

[20:21] <Gran-VHL> 5Den to be honest about it I think he must have lost his brain somewhere I just can't figure him out

[20:21] <grizz-VHL> Just read the most interesting article about what is coming in our future.. it was written by PAUL MEIER and it is called ' THE THIRD MILLENNIUM '' VERY POWERFUL

[20:21] <VCI-Bob> Good question Debi - what do you all think about what Debi said?

[20:21] <VCI-Bob> Jesus did indicate, right, that natural disasters of various kinds would increase

[20:21] <called_out-VHL> 10where did you see The Third Millennium Grizz

[20:21] <VCI-Bob> and plagues

[20:21] <skip-VHL> 4it is all predicted in REV.

[20:21] <Gran-VHL> 5grizz he wrote three books one is the third millennioum and another is the 4th millennium

[20:21] <Bezalel-VHL> And wars and rumors of wars.

[20:22] <grizz-VHL> I HAVE A FAX COPY HERE

[20:22] <Jerry-VHL> When Jesus said there would be EARTHQUAKES in Diverse places - the term earthquake literally means disturbances in the land as well as air

[20:22] <VCI-Bob> right, Skip - things much worse

[20:22] <Gran-VHL> 5can't htink of the name of the newest one have not read it either

[20:22] <called_out-VHL> 10But there has always been disasters, do you think they have increased that much?

[20:22] <VCI-Bob> yes, and disturbances in the sea

[20:22] <Den-VHL> Gran, he was a fierce fighter for Israel, but that is different than political strategies. What is his plan that anyone can see?

[20:22] <VCI-Bob> they are "the beginning of birth pangs" - but the real labor pains will be much worse

[20:22] <VCI-Bob> for the earth

[20:22] <Jerry-VHL> Yes any unusuall turbulence to which we are seeing an abundance of

[20:23] <Kathy-VHL> He wants to buy Peace at all costs

[20:23] <VCI-Bob> we looked at Isaiah 24 a little last week which describes these things

[20:23] <called_out-VHL> 10yes Jerry, getting worse, I believe

[20:23] <Gran-VHL> 5Den the people thought that he would do a good job protecting Isreal so voted him in and as I see it he is a traitor

[20:23] <skip-VHL> 4please pray for my son in Sicily he is very near MT. ETNA which is erupting

[20:23] <Gran-VHL> 5and when he gets back will get kicked out At least I hope so

[20:23] <Debi-VHL> 6What does everyone think about the new Gene discovery, where will it lead?

[20:23] <Kathy-VHL> sure will Skip

[20:23] <called_out-VHL> 10Yes Skip I will pray for your Son.

[20:23] <jeff-VHL> Bob in Mark 13:30 it says that I assure you this generation will not pass from the scene until all these events have taken place

[20:23] <jeff-VHL> Are we that Generation?

[20:24] <Jerry-VHL> Like before the flood the earth was filled with violence, so now the condition of the mind of man is so violent

[20:24] <Gran-VHL> 5Oh my skip I sure will pray for him what is his name?

[20:24] <called_out-VHL> 10Debi, I don't think God will permit men to manufacture a human being.

[20:24] <VCI-Bob> Debi, I see it like this - mankind thinks that it can come up with solutions APART from God

[20:24] <skip-VHL> 4thank you G_D bless ya'll :-)

[20:24] <skip-VHL> 4Robert

[20:24] <VCI-Bob> notice how much effort is put in to delay the inevitable, death?

[20:24] <Den-VHL> Gran, strong sentiments. is it a widely help view there?

[20:25] <VCI-Bob> Yes, Jerry, much violence, and it will get much worse

[20:25] <Jerry-VHL> Yes, Skip we will pray for Him. My nephew was in Taiwan when they had the earthquake, God know how to save the righteous in the day of calamity

[20:26] <Gran-VHL> 5Den I really don't know about other people here as i don't get out. but in Isreal there have been large crowds protesting finally what Barak has done

[20:26] <VCI-Bob> many have looked at bewilderment at the Nazis - how could a society do such a thing? but they were regular, ordinary people, who had been conditioned to thrive on violence

[20:26] <VCI-Bob> just like today - our young people are being "trained" to love violence

[20:26] <Gran-VHL> 5thats right Bob

[20:27] <skip-VHL> 4It is almost to the point now where my heart grieves all the time, but G-D didn't give us a spirit of fear

[20:27] <Kathy-VHL> right Bob

[20:27] <Den-VHL> Gran, are any of the other collition government parties ready to bail out now?

[20:27] <Kathy-VHL> and they are being made to have anger too

[20:27] <Gran-VHL> 5all the while our rights are being taken away from us with a lot of help from our Pres

[20:27] <VCI-Bob> right, Skip - no fear - God does want us to grieve and call out to him, though

[20:27] <Jerry-VHL> Like Lot who was vexed with the conversations of the wicked - it is so prevailent

[20:27] <VCI-Bob> yes, jerry

[20:28] <Gran-VHL> 5Den that is something to ask Bob or Stan as Stan is there on the scene all the time. I can only go on what one of them tell me or I read on VHL news

[20:28] <Debi-VHL> 6I don't like to say this, but I feel America is no longer free!

[20:28] <Jerry-VHL> I can't even watch commercials on TV without crindging with embarrasment for my young son

[20:28] <VCI-Bob> Den, no indication of that...

[20:28] <skip-VHL> 4what was once wrong is now Politically right

[20:28] <VCI-Bob> but Barak has already lost the majority...

[20:29] <VCI-Bob> so is susceptible to a "no confidence vote"

[20:29] <Gran-VHL> 5Debi you got that right we have a small amounts of freedom only anymore

[20:29] <Kathy-VHL> scripture ays in the end times they weill call good evil and evil good

[20:29] <Den-VHL> Thank you , Bob.

[20:29] <Jerry-VHL> Woe to them who call evil good and good evil - but we as believers have been told before it happens so that that day take us unaware

[20:29] <VCI-Bob> ironically, it's only the Arab parties that are keeping in him power now, providing the edge in the vote

[20:29] <Debi-VHL> 6This morning, I saw Congress praying but they won't allow prayer in the schools.

[20:29] <VCI-Bob> Yes, and it's going to get MUCH WORSE

[20:29] <VCI-Bob> but we must not fear - just stand firm in the Lord

[20:29] <Jerry-VHL> End days man will be lovers of themselves, covetous

[20:30] <Den-VHL> Bob, what will the Arab parties seek now, to keep with him?

[20:30] <skip-VHL> 4even so come quickly L_RD

[20:30] <Gran-VHL> 5yes the chaplaon was praying for Sen. Paul Coverdell who was very sick and then died

[20:30] <VCI-Bob> Paul called them "dangerous time, perilous times" in the end

[20:30] <Bezalel-VHL> Daniel 9:18 Give ear, O God, and hear; open your eyes and see the desolation of the city that bears your Name. We do not make requests of you because we are righteous, but because of your great mercy.

[20:30] <VCI-Bob> Amen, Bez

[20:30] <Gran-VHL> 5The whole bunch of them were praying for him and crying when he died

[20:30] <jeff-VHL> Will there be War in the middle east?

[20:31] <Gran-VHL> 5but I never did hear if he was saved even the pastor that will do the funeral didn't say that

[20:31] <grizz-VHL> If BARak has lost the majority will what he signs be legal

[20:31] <skip-VHL> 4without a doubt jeff

[20:31] <VCI-Bob> Yes, Jeff, there will - as we have discussed before, Isaiah 17, and other prophecies indicate a future war

[20:31] <Jerry-VHL> Great is the Mercy of our God, they are new every morning, each day is an opportunity to turn to Him.

[20:31] <Gran-VHL> 5grizz Stan said that the Knesset would have to ratifiy anything he signes

[20:31] <VCI-Bob> Amen, Jerry!

[20:32] <VCI-Bob> Grizz, he has lost the majority, but is still in power

[20:32] <grizz-VHL> so ggran that means its not bindind right

[20:32] <Jerry-VHL> They will come up against Israel, but Our Lord will roar out of Zion. He will fight for His people

[20:32] <VCI-Bob> until there is a call for new elections, in which case he would probably not be able to sign anything

[20:32] <VCI-Bob> Yes, He will, Jerry :)

[20:33] <Jerry-VHL> They shall behold Him

[20:33] <VCI-Bob> But first, He will turn their hearts back to Him

[20:33] <Debi-VHL> 6Everyone, how do you think the U.S. will fit into this picture?

[20:33] <Gran-VHL> 5not until the Knesset votes on it no

[20:33] <Gran-VHL> 5but with the Arabs there it may go through

[20:33] <VCI-Bob> "And I will pour out on the house of David and the inhabitants of Jerusalem a spirit of grace and supplication."

[20:33] <Gran-VHL> 5that is why we need to pray that he will just walk out

[20:33] <Jerry-VHL> What a day that will be, when His firstborn returns to Him

[20:33] <Gran-VHL> 5and go home

[20:33] <grizz-VHL> Does not the goverment half to rectafie the treaty like our goverment does

[20:33] <Den-VHL> Debi, one thought is that the US will lose its power as a world leader-maybe the EC will be the big power soon

[20:33] <Gran-VHL> 5Debi Clinton wants whatever the Arabs want

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[20:34] <Jerry-VHL> He will wipe all tears from their eyes

[20:34] <Gran-VHL> 5he has put so much pressure on the PMs to give it all away

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[20:34] <VCI-Bob> Welcome Sarang :)

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[20:34] <Debi-VHL> 6I thougth the U.S. was an ali of Israel.

[20:34] <skip-VHL> 4hi sarang

[20:34] <VCI-Bob> Hi there Willie -welcome :)

[20:34] <Jerry-VHL> blessing Sarang

[20:34] <Gran-VHL> 5Sarang and Willie shalom

[20:34] <Jerry-VHL> Blessing Willie

[20:35] <VCI-Bob> In theory, yes, Debi, not in practice

[20:35] <Sarang-VHL> hi skip

[20:35] <Den-VHL> Debi, we used to be the strongest ally

[20:35] <called_out-VHL927> 10Sarang and Willie :)

[20:35] <skip-VHL> 4only from the mouth out debi

[20:35] <Sarang-VHL> hi bob

[20:35] <VCI-Bob> the US is more interesting in protecting it's Arab oil interests

[20:35] <Gran-VHL> 5for sure bob

[20:35] <skip-VHL> 4i agree Bob

[20:35] <VCI-Bob> and in advancing the "one world" agenda

[20:35] <grizz-VHL> yes we need oil !!!!!!!

[20:35] <Gran-VHL> 5its all money and power

[20:35] <Jerry-VHL> You cannot tell me that Oil isn't behind the vital interest of US and we are depending on Israel's compliance here.

[20:35] <Debi-VHL> 6Is there a safe place to move to? LOL

[20:35] <Den-VHL> Bob, that is more true now than it used to be. Can it be turned around again?

[20:35] <called_out-VHL927> 10I can't stand the thought of our tax money going to Arafat

[20:36] <VCI-Bob> I know what you mean, Debi :)

[20:36] <VCI-Bob> and there is - heaven :)

[20:36] <Gran-VHL> 5Hey all someone in Italy I think it is invented a car that runs on AIR

[20:36] <skip-VHL> 4AMEN

[20:36] <Bezalel-VHL> The Pastor, who gave the Revelation seminar, proposed that Islam may be the harlot of Revelation....makes some sense.

[20:36] <Jerry-VHL> If the Arabs start tightening the oil belt, the stockmarkets all over the world will crash

[20:37] <VCI-Bob> as far as "turned around" Den, yes, we can pray to that end... however, we know that the earth will continue in it's departure from the Lord

[20:37] <Willie-VHL> 6;-)God's promise to Abraham in Gen. 12;1-4 IS STILL GOOD TODAY

[20:37] <VCI-Bob> Right, Willie :)

[20:37] <Jerry-VHL> It is good and in the process of being fulfilled

[20:37] <VCI-Bob> He never revoked it

[20:37] <Den-VHL> Bob, Revelation lays out the roadmap. I do not see a lot of citing to it here, though.

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[20:38] <VCI-Bob> Yes, Den, it does - it ties together all of the other prophecies of Scripture

[20:38] <Debi-VHL> 6Bob, I know we can't know the day or the hour, but where do you think were are at this time in prophecy?

[20:38] <VCI-Bob> and let's us see God's ultimate plan for the world

[20:38] <Bezalel-VHL> Amen, Bob!

[20:38] <VCI-Bob> I think we are getting very close, Debi, and must be prepared

[20:39] <Den-VHL> Bob, I esp. look for the peace treaty between the Anti-Christ and Israel, to guarantee peace.

[20:39] <VCI-Bob> ready, watching, serving, praying

[20:39] <Jerry-VHL> Well, as I said earlier I only have a short time tonight, but I look forward to the transcript. So Shalom to all.

[20:39] <VCI-Bob> Shalom, Jerry

[20:39] <Bezalel-VHL> and praying, and praying...

[20:39] <Debi-VHL> 6Shalom, Jerry

[20:39] <Gran-VHL> 5i think that the main reason God does not let us know when is that HE wants us to be so busy praying that we won't worry about when

[20:39] <called_out-VHL927> 10Bye Jerry

[20:39] <Den-VHL> That begins the 2 periods of 3 1/2 years each before the tribulation

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[20:39] <Bezalel-VHL> Night, Jerry, be weel

[20:39] <skip-VHL> 4shalom jerry

[20:39] <Gran-VHL> 5Jerry shalom

[20:39] <jeff-VHL> Mark 13:30 says, I assure you, this generation will not pass from the scene until all these events have taken place

[20:39] <Kathy-VHL> bye Jerry Blessings

[20:39] <Bezalel-VHL> or well

[20:39] <VCI-Bob> Remember, if there are particular portions of Scripture you wish to examine...

[20:40] <VCI-Bob> please suggest them to the room

[20:40] <VCI-Bob> and we will look at them

[20:40] <Den-VHL> Shalom, Jerry

[20:40] <VCI-Bob> What does that mean, Jeff?

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[20:41] <Debi-VHL> 6I have a question of confusion for me. Please explain the Judgement, If we are saved and ask for forgiveness, will we still be judged?

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[20:41] <VCI-Bob> Debi, if we have been born of God, Jesus bore our sin entirely -

[20:41] <VCI-Bob> He was condemned for us, and there is no condemnation for us

[20:41] <called_out-VHL927> 10Amen Bob :)

[20:41] <Debi-VHL> 6Good!:-)

[20:42] <skip-VHL> 4isn't judgement for the unrightous?

[20:42] <called_out-VHL927> 10if we are saved, God looks at us through the Blood of Jesus

[20:42] <Kathy-VHL> Bob what does it mean when it speaks of the children of Juda and the children of Israel coming together

[20:42] <Gran-VHL> 5Skip the word says that all of us will be judged

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[20:42] <VCI-Bob> Welcome, Paulo

[20:42] <Gran-VHL> 5the righteous and the unrighteous who different judgements

[20:43] <Bezalel-VHL> Besides, Skip, someone's name must be in the Book of Life, or why look?

[20:43] <VCI-Bob> Well, Kathy, there are different understandings of that... but..

[20:43] <Gran-VHL> 5two different ones that is

[20:43] <VCI-Bob> remember that after Solomon, the kingdom of Israel was split, right?

[20:43] <VCI-Bob> and that the northern 10 tribes were taken by Assyria

[20:44] <Kathy-VHL> yes

[20:44] <Bezalel-VHL> Judah and Israel....wasn't Israel exiled to Babylon?

[20:44] <VCI-Bob> never to return

[20:44] <skip-VHL> 4thanks gran:-)

[20:44] <Gran-VHL> 5:)

[20:44] <VCI-Bob> So.. I assume it means that in the last days, the scattered remnants of those tribes will be restored

[20:44] <VCI-Bob> be aware, however...

[20:44] <Kathy-VHL> well where is Juda now

[20:45] <VCI-Bob> that cults of various kinds jump on the "10 tribes" to claim they are linked to God

[20:45] <Debi-VHL> 6Like the Muslims?

[20:45] <VCI-Bob> Judah - from which we get the word "Jew" - is what is left mostly

[20:45] <Kathy-VHL> yes so does anyone know where the ribes are now

[20:46] <Kathy-VHL> it looks like that would be a big clue to the times

[20:46] <VCI-Bob> they did not remain as an entity

[20:46] <VCI-Bob> after being taken to Assyria, were assimilated

[20:46] <VCI-Bob> unlike Judah, which returned

[20:46] <Kathy-VHL> they have to be somewhere because of the 144 thousand who will be sealed from the 12 tribes

[20:47] <VCI-Bob> as we read in Ezra, Nehemiah, Haggai, Zechariah

[20:47] <VCI-Bob> yes, there are remnants, certainly

[20:47] <VCI-Bob> but they never returned as a group

[20:47] <Kathy-VHL> But God says they will be joined again

[20:48] <Kathy-VHL> Ho:1:10: Yet the number of the children of Israel shall be as the sand of the sea, which cannot be measured nor numbered; and it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people, there it shall be said unto them, Ye are the sons of the living God.

[20:48] <Bezalel-VHL> Bob, who was it that returned and rebuilt the Temple and Jerusalum?

[20:48] <jeff-VHL> whether we take this to mean that the whole would be fulfilled within the limit of

[20:48] <skip-VHL> 4maybe I am of one of the lost tribes ,since I have so much love for Israel???????

[20:48] <VCI-Bob> Bez, it was "Judah"

[20:48] <Kathy-VHL> Ho:1:11: Then shall the children of Judah and the children of Israel be gathered together, and appoint themselves one head, and they shall come up out of the land: for great shall be the day of Jezreel.

[20:48] <Debi-VHL> 6I hope we all are skip.

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[20:49] <Gran-VHL> 5Bez that was Nehamiah

[20:49] <VCI-Bob> Kathy, I don't know :)

[20:49] <VCI-Bob> Remember, for us....

[20:49] <VCI-Bob> we have received the blessings given to Abraham...

[20:49] <Sarang-VHL> why so many animals in revelations....is it literally taken?

[20:49] <Paulo-VHL> In that case, there are jews of the 12 tribes that never mixed with other tribes until now?12

[20:49] <Bezalel-VHL> So, it was the Levites and one other tribe? I'm fuzzy on this.

[20:49] <jeff-VHL> the generation then current, or, according to a usual way of speaking that the generation then existing would not pass away without seeing

[20:49] <VCI-Bob> because we follow Jessus the Messiah of Israel :)

[20:50] <VCI-Bob> What do you mean, Sarang?

[20:50] <VCI-Bob> Judah and Benjamin

[20:50] <VCI-Bob> the Levites were a "special" tribe

[20:50] <light2-VHL> Bob I have an encourageing verse for you all

[20:50] <jeff-VHL> a begun fulfilment of this prediction, the fact entirely correspond

[20:50] <skip-VHL> 4hi light

[20:50] <Bezalel-VHL> Thanks, Bob:-) I keep trying to get smarter.

[20:50] <VCI-Bob> :)

[20:50] <light2-VHL> For I, saith Jehovah, will be unto her a wall of fire round about, and I will be the glory in the midst of her.

[20:51] <light2-VHL> Zech 2:5

[20:51] <VCI-Bob> When, Jeff, do you think "this generation" started? 1948, 1967?

[20:51] <light2-VHL> This is speaking of Jerusalem

[20:51] <VCI-Bob> Thanks, Light :)

[20:52] <VCI-Bob> For us Gentiles - we don't need to be concerned if we are physical descendants of Abraham

[20:52] <Gran-VHL> 5 1948 bob is when it was decalred a state

[20:52] <VCI-Bob> yes, Gran

[20:52] <jeff-VHL> What happen in 1967?

[20:52] <Debi-VHL> 6 1967 when they signed the treaty

[20:52] <called_out-VHL927> 101967 is when they recaptured their land

[20:52] <skip-VHL> 4took Jersalem

[20:52] <jeff-VHL> I don't know

[20:52] <VCI-Bob> 1967 is the six day war when east Jerusalem was regained

[20:53] <VCI-Bob> the "old city"

[20:53] <jeff-VHL> Oh yes now I remember

[20:53] <VCI-Bob> and the Temple Mount

[20:53] <VCI-Bob> which they have not really regained - yet

[20:53] <VCI-Bob> soon :)

[20:53] <Bezalel-VHL> I don't understand why the Waqf has spiritual control of Temple Mount.

[20:53] <skip-VHL> 4and USA made them give back temple mount

[20:53] <VCI-Bob> me neither Bez

[20:53] <VCI-Bob> it won't be much longer :)

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[20:54] <skip-VHL> 4yahoo and amen

[20:54] <jeff-VHL> Do you think..

[20:54] <Debi-VHL> 6 1978 was the was war of Yom Kuppur, holy city was recaputured.

[20:54] <jeff-VHL> they will give it back

[20:54] <VCI-Bob> 1973

[20:54] <jeff-VHL> at the end of the week

[20:54] <skip-VHL> 4hi dove

[20:54] <jeff-VHL> or when Camp David is over?

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[20:54] <Debi-VHL> 6Isreal signeh the peace accord in 1993 in Washington.

[20:54] <VCI-Bob> but 1967 was when Jerusalem was regained

[20:55] <dovecry-VHL> Shalom, Bob, and all. Love to you.

[20:55] <VCI-Bob> Shalon, Dove!

[20:55] <Bezalel-VHL> Hi Dove:-)

[20:55] <Kathy-VHL> Israel became a nation in 1948

[20:55] <VCI-Bob> Jeff, if they give it back ( they have already done that somewhat) it will not last

[20:55] <Debi-VHL> 6Bob, do you think any of the seven seals have been opened?

[20:55] <VCI-Bob> no, Debi

[20:56] <Sarang-VHL> 12oh..that's what i meant....all the animals with the seals ?

[20:56] <dovecry-VHL> Can't stay long, but I want to read and learn

[20:56] <jeff-VHL> how long have you studied prophecy?

[20:57] <Debi-VHL> 6I wish I could stay, but there is a tremondous strom approaching with 70 mile an hour winds. Thanks to all and Shalom.

[20:57] <VCI-Bob> Sarang, there is symbolism in the book of revelation, but the events will literally take place

[20:57] <VCI-Bob> Come again Debi!

[20:57] <VCI-Bob> Shalom!

[20:57] <skip-VHL> 4shalom debi

[20:57] <Bezalel-VHL> Stay Low Debi....come again.

[20:57] <Debi-VHL> 6I will

[20:57] <VCI-Bob> :)

[20:57] <called_out-VHL464> 10Bye Debi

[20:57] <Sarang-VHL> 12ok..thx

[20:57] <jeff-VHL> by Debi

[20:57] <Kathy-VHL> Be safe Deb

[20:57] <dovecry-VHL> Love Debi

[20:57] <VCI-Bob> The book of Revelation...

[20:58] <Debi-VHL> 6Love All:-)

[20:58] <VCI-Bob> speaks of the "revealing" of Jesus the Messiah

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[20:58] <VCI-Bob> when God once again steps into human history to show His wondrous power

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[20:58] <VCI-Bob> and to unleash His fierce anger on the rebellious world

[20:58] <jeff-VHL> That will be a great day

[20:58] <dovecry-VHL> Yes.

[20:58] <Kathy-VHL> Bob is that to be a revealing to the Jew?

[20:58] <Bezalel-VHL> I like that imagery Bob.

[20:59] <VCI-Bob> to them, and to the whole world, Kathy

[20:59] <VCI-Bob> notice...

[20:59] <skip-VHL> 4will we be able to tell when the first seal is opened or will we think it is just another one of the many calamaties already befalling us?

[20:59] <Kathy-VHL> He has already revealed Himself to the believers

[20:59] <VCI-Bob> that though the Jews are mentioned much in prophecy, they are not featured as much in Revelations?

[20:59] <Bezalel-VHL> The first seal is the anti-christ Skip

[21:00] <VCI-Bob> not that they are ignored...

[21:00] <VCI-Bob> but it speaks primarly of God's judgment on the world

[21:00] <Paulo-VHL> 12Well, see you later, shalom.

[21:00] <Bezalel-VHL> Bye Paulo

[21:00] <Kathy-VHL> but Bob that is the purpose to turn the heart of the Jews back to Him

[21:00] <VCI-Bob> see ya Paulo

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[21:00] <VCI-Bob> yes, that is one of God's purposes, Kathy :)

[21:00] <VCI-Bob> but the ultimate purpose...

[21:00] <VCI-Bob> is to bring glory to Himself

[21:01] <Kathy-VHL> so that His name will be glorified

[21:01] <dovecry-VHL> What about the 7 churches, and the 7 Lampstands?

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[21:02] <VCI-Bob> Remember what happened... before Jesus was arrested

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[21:02] <VCI-Bob> "Now my heart is troubled, and what shall I say? 'Father, save me from this hour'? No, it was for this very reason I came to this hour. (John 12:27 NIV)

[21:02] <dovecry-VHL> The 2nd, & 3rd ?

[21:02] <skip-VHL> 4could be clinton or the pope Bez?

[21:02] <dovecry-VHL> Yes

[21:02] <VCI-Bob> Father, glorify your name!" Then a voice came from heaven, "I have glorified it, and will glorify it again." (John 12:28 NIV)

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[21:02] <Bezalel-VHL> Certainly not Clinton....

[21:03] <VCI-Bob> the Father Himself spoke from heaven - telling us what would happen

[21:03] <jeff-VHL> What is the next bible prophecy that we will see?

[21:03] <grizz-VHL> must go company love you all in our LORD and SAVIORS NAME BYE

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[21:03] <VCI-Bob> His name was glorified when Jesus was sacrificed

[21:03] <skip-VHL> 4does false prophet come before anti-christ?

[21:03] <dovecry-VHL> Sorry Love you grizzBlessings

[21:03] <VCI-Bob> and will be glorified once again when HE returns in glory

[21:04] <Kathy-VHL> yes

[21:04] <VCI-Bob> Welcome, Mkiser

[21:04] <mkiser-VHL> 6thank you Bob

[21:04] <Kathy-VHL> and to be true to His promisses to Israel He has to reveal Himself to them right

[21:04] <VCI-Bob> I think I missed some questions

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[21:04] <Bezalel-VHL> No, Skip, the anti-christ and false prophet are both empowered by the dragon, as I understand it.

[21:04] <mkiser-VHL> 6what did you think about the talks this week

[21:05] <dovecry-VHL> Yes, What about the 7 Lampstands?

[21:05] <VCI-Bob> mkiser, I think the consensus here is that is sad that Israel is abandoning land which God has granted

[21:05] <VCI-Bob> and not believing His promises

[21:05] <called_out-VHL464> 10and Jeff's questions about the next bible prophecy

[21:05] <VCI-Bob> What about them, Dove :)

[21:06] <skip-VHL> 4but doesn't bible say F.P.paves the way for the Anti-C?

[21:06] <VCI-Bob> What question, Jeff? sorry

[21:06] <VCI-Bob> FP?

[21:06] <Perpetua-VHL> Hi All - Gran how's the back? My hubby and I have been praying for oyu.

[21:06] <jeff-VHL> What is the next bible prophecy that we will see?

[21:06] <skip-VHL> 4false prophet

[21:06] <VCI-Bob> Jeff, in my opinion...

[21:06] <mkiser-VHL> 6I guess that it isn't all that unusal, what about when the spies came back from the land and they were to afraid to go posess the land

[21:07] <VCI-Bob> it is the war with Syria and Palestine and Lebanon

[21:07] <Gran-VHL> 5Hi I got a phone call will be off for a while

[21:07] <VCI-Bob> prophecied in Isaiah, Zechariah, and Jeremiah

[21:07] <jeff-VHL> Is that in Daniel?

[21:07] <jeff-VHL> oh

[21:07] <dovecry-VHL> What do they have to do with the 7 spirits of God? Forgive me if I'm getting off track Just need to know:-)

[21:07] <light2-VHL> What about the soon destruction of Damascus?

[21:07] <VCI-Bob> Yes, Light, thats what I was referring to

[21:08] <light2-VHL> Would that effect the land of Israel at all?

[21:08] <Kathy-VHL> So Bob you feel that all this peace talk is the leading up to that war?

[21:08] <VCI-Bob> not sure how to answer that, Dove :)

[21:08] <jeff-VHL> Bob, how long have you studied prophecy?

[21:08] <called_out-VHL464> 10The destruction of Damascus would be a terrible thing to see

[21:08] <VCI-Bob> Yes, Kathy

[21:08] <Kathy-VHL> ok I am on the same track with you now lol

[21:08] <VCI-Bob> Well, Jeff, I've been reading the Bible for 22 years, as a believer

[21:08] <light2-VHL> I asked that question because I keep wondering why everyone wants to go to Israel now

[21:09] <jeff-VHL> wow

[21:09] <jeff-VHL> that is GreAT

[21:09] <VCI-Bob> Yes, there is nothing like it Jeff :)

[21:09] <jeff-VHL> Could you give me some tips, do you have a web site or anything?

[21:09] <light2-VHL> And I wonder what the destruction of Damascus would do to Israel

[21:09] <called_out-VHL464> 10Nothing even comes close :)

[21:09] <VCI-Bob> I wish I could say I was always serving the Lord for those 22 year, but God has been very gracious and patient with me

[21:10] <light2-VHL> fallout etc

[21:10] <Kathy-VHL> he has a wonderful site Jef worth the visit

[21:10] <jeff-VHL> what is the address?

[21:10] <Bezalel-VHL> :-O, Bob

[21:10] <VCI-Bob> Light... I think Isaiah 17 gives us some clues about that

[21:10] <Kathy-VHL> Trumpet Sounds.com

[21:10] <Perpetua-VHL> 11Will the US become involved with THE WAR?

[21:10] <jeff-VHL> thanks

[21:10] <VCI-Bob> www.trumpetsounds.com :)

[21:10] <mkiser-VHL> 6Bob, God's grace is amazing for us all

[21:11] <VCI-Bob> good question, perpetua - I don't know

[21:11] <VCI-Bob> yes, isn't it mkiser!

[21:11] <called_out-VHL464> 10That is what I am waiting for the Trumpet sound.

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[21:11] <VCI-Bob> I marevel more each day at His patience and kindness to us

[21:11] <skip-VHL> 4hi hope

[21:11] <called_out-VHL464> 10Hope :)

[21:11] <hope-VHL> 3Bob? I went into the other room, and was shocked!

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[21:12] <VCI-Bob> what?

[21:12] <hope-VHL> 3I was in the twilight zone! ;) Hi everyone!

[21:12] <Kathy-VHL> Bob does scripture talk about the giving away of the land and the peace talks that are going on now

[21:12] <jeff-VHL> hi hope

[21:12] <skip-VHL> 4lol

[21:12] <VCI-Bob> what happened, hope?

[21:12] <VCI-Bob> Perhaps, Kathy.... let me paste a verse or 2 - hold on

[21:12] <light2-VHL> She probably thought that we all got raptured, right hope??

[21:13] <hope-VHL> 3Your name was in there and no one else.........I thought maybe I just couldn't see everyone! LOL

[21:13] <skip-VHL> 4rofl

[21:13] <jeff-VHL> thats funny light2

[21:13] <called_out-VHL464> 10LOF

[21:13] <hope-VHL> 3LOL Light!!!!

[21:13] <light2-VHL> Oh btw Bob got left behind

[21:13] <VCI-Bob> LOL - I'm signed on to another PC to direct people over here :)

[21:13] <VCI-Bob> ok - here's one Kathy

[21:13] <VCI-Bob> Behold, their brave men cry in the streets, The ambassadors of peace weep bitterly. (Isaiah 33:7 NASB)

[21:13] <Kathy-VHL> k

[21:14] <mkiser-VHL> 6what is the other room about, it is called heartforIsrael

[21:14] <VCI-Bob> Look, their brave men cry aloud in the streets; the envoys of peace weep bitterly. (Isaiah 33:7 NIV)

[21:14] <VCI-Bob> That's the name of the Tuesday chat led by Delta

[21:14] <jeff-VHL> Are the 2 witness alive today?

[21:14] <VCI-Bob> ok - so in Isaiah...

[21:15] <VCI-Bob> the "peace envoys" are weeping - why?

[21:15] <hope-VHL> 3good question Jeff

[21:15] <hope-VHL> 3for Bob that is ;)

[21:15] <VCI-Bob> The highways are deserted, no travelers are on the roads. The treaty is broken, its witnesses are despised, no one is respected. (Isaiah 33:8 NIV)

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[21:15] <light2-VHL> Bob did you get to read the " One Light One World site?"

[21:15] <VCI-Bob> I don't know, Jeff

[21:15] <Gran-VHL> 5Jeff as i read the word the two witnesses wil just appear

[21:15] <VCI-Bob> Welcome, Littleone

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[21:16] <Gran-VHL> 5they are not alive here now as i understand it will have to read up on that

[21:16] <hope-VHL> 3Light, what is the address to that site?

[21:16] <light2-VHL> They had a petition that you sign , but does not mention the name of Jesus

[21:16] <littleone-VHL> 2Shalom to you Bob and evryone

[21:16] <Gran-VHL> 5littleone shalom

[21:16] <Perpetua-VHL> 111As the mountains surround Jerusalem so the Lord surrounds His people both now and forever. Psalm 125:2

[21:16] <jeff-VHL> thanks Gran

[21:16] <light2-VHL> Robert Schuller is the one behind it and they are making mercandise of Israel

[21:16] <littleone-VHL> 2Shalom Gran

[21:16] <VCI-Bob> Kathy, there is an article on my website discussing the Isaiah 33 passage

[21:17] <light2-VHL> Hope I have to go find it, but it was really disgusting

[21:17] <Gran-VHL> 5light I have not seen that site but from the name it sounds like a cult to me

[21:17] <dovecry-VHL> Forgive me Bob, but I'm trying to study Revelations too. We are studing the 7 churches right now.

[21:17] <VCI-Bob> Schuller is a false teacher who denies the Scriptures - no wonder it does not mention Jesus

[21:17] <Gran-VHL> 5just IMO

[21:17] <VCI-Bob> that's ok, Dove :)

[21:17] <Perpetua-VHL> Who is Robert Schuller?

[21:17] <Gran-VHL> 5your welcome Jeff

[21:17] <light2-VHL> I think they are planning something really big in December in the Holy land

[21:18] <Sarang-VHL> 12isn't the whole UN religiously misguided?

[21:18] <Gran-VHL> 5good name Jeff one of my sons is named Jeff

[21:18] <VCI-Bob> yes, Sarang...

[21:18] <jeff-VHL> cool

[21:18] <hope-VHL> 3I guess I won't bother with it then, thanks Light

[21:18] <Gran-VHL> 5Schuller has a big church in Los Angeles

[21:18] <VCI-Bob> the religions of the world will join together AGAINST Jesus and His followers in the end time

[21:18] <VCI-Bob> including many so-called "Christians"

[21:18] <light2-VHL> Well I never dreamed that he was that apostate

[21:18] <littleone-VHL> 2Amen

[21:18] <jabber-VHL> has anyone read about the rome colisuem being opened again

[21:19] <VCI-Bob> didn't hear that, jabber

[21:19] <jeff-VHL> Yes I seen that jabber

[21:19] <Perpetua-VHL> Where is that? (about the churches joining against Christ?)

[21:19] <hope-VHL> 3no

[21:19] <Gran-VHL> 5i really don;t know much about Schuller but somehow I just never cared for his preaching

[21:19] <jabber-VHL> it is opened as a theater

[21:19] <VCI-Bob> The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons. (1 Timothy 4:1 NIV)

[21:19] <jabber-VHL> the one that was used to kill christians in

[21:19] <Perpetua-VHL> Gran - how is your back feeling?

[21:19] <skip-VHL> 4most main stream churches in USA welcome Homosexuals so they aren't very biblical

[21:20] <jeff-VHL> that is sad

[21:20] <Gran-VHL> 5still sore dear but not too bad if I don't sit too long or do anything much

[21:20] <Gran-VHL> 5doctor said it would take time

[21:20] <dovecry-VHL> But I have another question for you Bob from Revelation. Can you enlighten me as to what the writer means in Rev.21:7-8?

[21:20] <called_out-VHL464> 10And with the hate crime bill preachers will not be able to preach against homosexuality

[21:20] <VCI-Bob> sure, Dove, lets look at it...

[21:20] <dovecry-VHL> Ok:-)

[21:21] <jeff-VHL> Call_out, what are you talking about?

[21:21] <called_out-VHL464> 10The bill would allow them to be arrested for preaching.

[21:21] <VCI-Bob> He said to me: "It is done. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End. To him who is thirsty I will give to drink without cost from the spring of the water of life. (Revelation 21:6 NIV)

[21:21] <VCI-Bob> He who overcomes will inherit all this, and I will be his God and he will be my son. (Revelation 21:7 NIV)

[21:21] <Gran-VHL> 5so far that does not stop John Hagee

[21:21] <jabber-VHL> 32yes the preachers can preach againsst homosexuality

[21:21] <VCI-Bob> But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars--their place will be in the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death." (Revelation 21:8 NIV)

[21:21] <jeff-VHL> Has it passed?

[21:21] <dovecry-VHL> specially v.8

[21:22] <VCI-Bob> ok - The Lord is describing the fate of those who refuse to repent and put their trust in Him

[21:22] <called_out-VHL464> 10I don't know if it has passed yet or not, but if it does, preachers will not be free to preach against wrong lifestyles.

[21:22] <dovecry-VHL> does this mean that some so called christians will fall in this cat.?

[21:22] <Gran-VHL> 5it depends how the final wording is

[21:22] <Perpetua-VHL> Will we be free to discuss it here (homosexuality)?

[21:22] <VCI-Bob> yes, Dove, some that call themselves Christians but are not genuine believers

[21:22] <littleone-VHL> 2Not everyone that called my name Knows me,,says the Lord

[21:22] <dovecry-VHL> forgive me I shouldn't talk like that

[21:22] <hope-VHL> 3anyone who falls into this category is NOT a Christian

[21:23] <jabber-VHL> 2then the preacher needs to get his priorities straight

[21:23] <VCI-Bob> Right, little

[21:23] <littleone-VHL> 2Shall enter the Kingdom

[21:23] <light2-VHL> Here is the url

[21:23] <Gran-VHL> 5dove you are not calling any names just a catagory

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[21:23] <light2-VHL> http://www.jesus2000.net/index.html

[21:23] <Gran-VHL> 5if the shoe fits

[21:23] <dovecry-VHL> can it also mean those who fall away from the faith?

[21:23] <VCI-Bob> yes, Dove

[21:24] <dovecry-VHL> WoW! Thank you Bob:-)

[21:24] <littleone-VHL> 2The ones that follow the Lord He has in the Palm Of His Hand

[21:24] <hope-VHL> 3BUT BOB, a TRUE believer will NEVER lose their salvation........right?

[21:24] <littleone-VHL> 2Yes, it can be lost

[21:24] <Gran-VHL> 5thats as I read it hope

[21:24] <VCI-Bob> Hope, there is theological debate about that...

[21:24] <skip-VHL> 4most preachers don't say anything that would offend anyone now

[21:24] <VCI-Bob> here is how I see it...

[21:24] <Kathy-VHL> it cant be lost but it can be given back

[21:24] <jeff-VHL> FOR ME I WILL NEVER LOSE MY SALVATION

[21:24] <Gran-VHL> 5Jesus said that no one can take us out of the Fathers hand

[21:24] <jabber-VHL> 2you haven't heard my pastor

[21:24] <dovecry-VHL> Which leads me to Rev.22:14-15>

[21:25] <mkiser-VHL> 6You know, if the preachers could only get the true message of God's unconditional love to the people, they wouldn't have to preach against anything, the people would open up to the graceful work of the Holy Spirit

[21:25] <littleone-VHL> 2We have a way to live and, think and act by.. The ways of Our Lord Yeshua

[21:25] <called_out-VHL464> 10Yes Jabber, my pastor speaks the truth too.

[21:25] <VCI-Bob> it doesn't matter, whether a person who is living ungodly and does not repent... once once saved, and fell away, or was never saved (the 2 positions) - the end result is the same

[21:25] <light2-VHL> check out the proclamation page

[21:25] <hope-VHL> 3I do not believe a true believer will EVER lose his/her salvation BUT a true believer will LIVE for Christ......He said , If you love Me, you will keep My commandments.......so we can't expect to live like Hell, and go to heaven

[21:25] <light2-VHL> http://www.jesus2000.net/proc/default.htm

[21:25] <VCI-Bob> The Scriptures teach both things - that we are "secure" but that we also need to endure to the end

[21:26] <jabber-VHL> 2right hope

[21:26] <light2-VHL> The scripture also teaches that in the last day some will be apostates

[21:26] <littleone-VHL> 2We all are accountable for our lives,,to the Lord and ouselves

[21:26] <dovecry-VHL> We can walk away from God but He will not give us up

[21:26] <Gran-VHL> 5and to be ready for the soon coming of the Lord for us in the clouds of glory with a trumpet sound

[21:26] <light2-VHL> Knowing the Lord and turning from Him

[21:26] <jeff-VHL> What do you think about the teachings of Jack Van Impe?

[21:26] <VCI-Bob> I don't agree, Mkiser - we need to preach God's love, yes, but the preachers in the Bible also preached against specific sins

[21:26] <VCI-Bob> Amen, Gran

[21:26] <hope-VHL> 3I can't wait Gran

[21:26] <called_out-VHL464> 10Amen Bob

[21:27] <VCI-Bob> Jeff, like most teachers, I agree with some things, and disagree with others :)

[21:27] <jabber-VHL> 2right bob and gran

[21:27] <light2-VHL> In fact the kings of the earth that commit fornication with the whore on the beast, the same word for kings is used for believers as kings and priests

[21:27] <called_out-VHL464> 10Preachers are called to call sin sin.

[21:27] <jeff-VHL> Me too

[21:27] <jabber-VHL> 2does anyone elxe fell that something is fixing to take place and you can't wait until it does?

[21:28] <hope-VHL> 3AMEN JABBER

[21:28] <jeff-VHL> I hope its the rapture

[21:28] <dovecry-VHL> the Bible says that in the end times many will fall away. Does this mean christians too?

[21:28] <littleone-VHL> 2That is why the dorr to Heaven is narrow..If we fall or depart from God..repent and claim His Forgiveness and Mercy that Endures Forever..Just like David

[21:28] <VCI-Bob> We are all fallible - any teacher that asserts that he alone teaches the truth is to be avoided, right?

[21:28] <mkiser-VHL> 6what specific sins do you mean

[21:28] <hope-VHL> 3not to be mean

[21:28] <called_out-VHL464> 10Yes Jabber, I think of it as soon as I wake in the morning.

[21:28] <VCI-Bob> Yes, Jabber :)

[21:28] <Gran-VHL> 5Kids I have a terrible memory unless it is of something I have read recently but I wonder maybe Bob or light I remember a verse that talks about it being worse to knnow the truth and fall away then to not know it to begine with

[21:28] <Gran-VHL> 5not a good parapharse

[21:28] <jabber-VHL> 2iall sins mkiser

[21:28] <hope-VHL> 3I'm not expecting it to be the rapture though......unfortunately

[21:28] <light2-VHL> Any man that does not stick to the truth of the gospel is to be avoided

[21:29] <jabber-VHL> 2yes gran

[21:29] <Gran-VHL> 5hope what do you mean

[21:29] <light2-VHL> And they are anathama

[21:29] <VCI-Bob> Well, Mkiser, the "law" was given to demonstrate man's sinfulness, right, so that we would turn to Jesus for salvation

[21:29] <hope-VHL> 3I mean a WAR

[21:29] <dovecry-VHL> Bob

[21:29] <jabber-VHL> 2i expect it to be the rapture

[21:29] <VCI-Bob> as we see ourselves as guilty sinners before the Lord

[21:29] <littleone-VHL> 2Yes, there is a verse in the bible wher it says That it would have been better not to no Him at all than depart from Our Lord at all

[21:29] <VCI-Bob> this room is moving fast - sorry if I missed comments by anyone

[21:29] <dovecry-VHL> Hebrews

[21:30] <Kathy-VHL> Hebres I think Gran

[21:30] <light2-VHL> Well I dont think these men are just falling away, I believe they like Judas see silver and gold and other options

[21:30] <mkiser-VHL> 6yes, but it was also given to prove that we could not keep the law

[21:30] <Gran-VHL> 5why do you say hope that you are not expecting to be in the rapture

[21:30] <littleone-VHL> 2Thank you

[21:30] <hope-VHL> 3guilty sinners on our way to hell, but for the grace of JESUS, He paid it all

[21:30] <Gran-VHL> 5OK am looking now

[21:30] <called_out-VHL464> 10We can't possibly keep the whole las mkiser, we are humans.

[21:30] <VCI-Bob> Right, Mkiser - but the prophets held up God's law as the standard, calling people to repent and receive tht Lord's mercy

[21:30] <called_out-VHL464> 10should be law

[21:30] <light2-VHL> Amen God sees us through blood colored glasses

[21:31] <jabber-VHL> 2yes light

[21:31] <called_out-VHL464> 10amen Light

[21:31] <hope-VHL> 3Gran, I'm not a pretribber, that's why ;)

[21:31] <called_out-VHL464> 10Jesus paid it all

[21:31] <light2-VHL> The scripture says hope that they deny the Lord that bought them

[21:31] <VCI-Bob> speaking as the host, I appreciate the excellent contributions by everyone to the chat :)

[21:31] <light2-VHL> so they must not believe in the blood of Christ for atonement

[21:31] <called_out-VHL464> 10You're not your own, you are bought with a price.

[21:31] <jeff-VHL> thanks Bob

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[21:31] <VCI-Bob> thank you, Jeff :)

[21:31] <jabber-VHL> 2you had better believe in the blood

[21:32] <mkiser-VHL> 6yes, and that mercy is always there for anyone who wants it, I know that I need it to be new every morning because I can not keep up with the laws

[21:32] <jabber-VHL> 2for without it we all would be lost

[21:32] <jeff-VHL> Just think one day we will be prasing GOD side by side in heaven

[21:32] <VCI-Bob> me too, Mkiser :)

[21:32] <jeff-VHL> all of us

[21:32] <Perpetua-VHL> I have a probably stupid question but what happened to the men and women of hte Old Testament? Did they go to heaven without the blood of Jesus?

[21:32] <VCI-Bob> Yeah Jeff!!!

[21:32] <light2-VHL> But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.

[21:32] <VCI-Bob> What a great day!

[21:32] <jabber-VHL> 2yes jeff

[21:32] <dovecry-VHL> My question, Will Christians be also the ones that fall away?

[21:32] <VCI-Bob> Good question, perpetua

[21:32] <light2-VHL> 2 Pet 2:1

[21:32] <dovecry-VHL> and why?

[21:32] <dovecry-VHL> because of their teachers?

[21:32] <Kathy-VHL> It is the heart that God sees

[21:33] <Gran-VHL> 5roomies Gran needs to leave you all God Bless see you on Mon. shalom

[21:33] <jabber-VHL> 2the falling away is talking about christians

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[21:33] <called_out-VHL464> 10Bye Gran :) sleep tight

[21:33] <VCI-Bob> My understanding, Perpetua, is that they did not yet go to heaven at that point, until Jesus died and resurrected....

[21:33] <Kathy-VHL> blessings Gran

[21:33] <skip-VHL> 4take it easy GRAN LOVE YOU

[21:33] <light2-VHL> You can't fall away if you never were there to begin with

[21:33] <jabber-VHL> 2yes because of teachers and the harding of their hearts

[21:33] <hope-VHL> 3I agree Bob

[21:33] <mkiser-VHL> 6I also believe that if we can grasp the greatness of God's love, we will hold up that standard

[21:33] <light2-VHL> These are men that know the truth and choose to deny

[21:33] <VCI-Bob> they went to the "good side" of Sheol (Hades) until the time when Jesus went and led them to heaven

[21:33] <VCI-Bob> which is where they are now

[21:33] <dovecry-VHL> or because they are weak?

[21:34] <jabber-VHL> 2right bob

[21:34] <Kathy-VHL> that is how I understand it too bob

[21:34] <VCI-Bob> whew :)

[21:34] <Perpetua-VHL> Did he lead them all or did they have to accept Him as Savior?

[21:34] <jabber-VHL> 2weakness too

[21:34] <Kathy-VHL> they were seen walking in the streets

[21:34] <called_out-VHL464> 10I didn't know that Bob, I have been a Christian for 40 years and that is the first time I heard of the god side. :)

[21:34] <hope-VHL> 3LOL, Bob

[21:34] <jabber-VHL> 2as saviour

[21:34] <dovecry-VHL> hold that answer I gotta get something for my friend here:-)

[21:34] <jeff-VHL> Is Hell and the Lake of Fire to seperate places?

[21:35] <hope-VHL> 3YES Jeff

[21:35] <Kathy-VHL> yes Jef

[21:35] <Kathy-VHL> hell was devided in to two places

[21:35] <hope-VHL> 3the lake of fire is the second death.....

[21:35] <called_out-VHL464> 10I think so Jeff:)

[21:35] <jabber-VHL> 2there are different compaartments to hell

[21:35] <VCI-Bob> They had expressed their faith in the Lord when they were alive - of course they didn' t know "Jesus" at that time, but they were saved by grace through faigh, just like us

[21:35] <light2-VHL> Lake of Fire is end jugdment of hell

[21:35] <VCI-Bob> did you know...

[21:35] <Kathy-VHL> a great gulf was between the two

[21:35] <VCI-Bob> that no humans are yet in hell?

[21:36] <Kathy-VHL> He went there and announced to them who He was

[21:36] <called_out-VHL464> 10No Bob, I didn't know that.

[21:36] <VCI-Bob> that they go to the "bad side" of Hades now...

[21:36] <jabber-VHL> 2it wasn't meaant for us

[21:36] <hope-VHL> 3what Bob?

[21:36] <VCI-Bob> which will be thrown in to the lake of fire (Hell)

[21:36] <light2-VHL> Bob Jesus said that Moses saw his day

[21:36] <VCI-Bob> at the final judgment

[21:36] <Kathy-VHL> Hell the Grave not Hell the fire

[21:36] <jeff-VHL> I thought that the great gulf was between Hades and Abrahams Bossom

[21:36] <VCI-Bob> Well, Hades is fire...

[21:36] <light2-VHL> So I belive they knew and Believed the messiah was coming

[21:36] <jabber-VHL> 2it was

[21:36] <called_out-VHL464> 10Where in the bible does it say about the good side of Hades? I am amazed.

[21:36] <hope-VHL> 3I get Sheol, hades mixed up

[21:36] <hope-VHL> 3or are they the same?

[21:36] <VCI-Bob> the "rich man' was in fire

[21:37] <VCI-Bob> They are the same, Hope

[21:37] <light2-VHL> Called out I think it is called Abrahams bosom

[21:37] <VCI-Bob> Right, light

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[21:37] <called_out-VHL464> 10OH Llight, now I know.

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[21:37] <light2-VHL> There was a great gulf between the two

[21:37] <called_out-VHL464> 10cool

[21:37] <called_out-VHL464> 10yes and the rich man asked for just a drop of water

[21:37] <VCI-Bob> Sheol in Hebrew meant "the grave"

[21:38] <VCI-Bob> the place where the dead went

[21:38] <light2-VHL> Yes where the worm dies not

[21:38] <VCI-Bob> right, Called

[21:38] <called_out-VHL464> 10So, the dead are waiting in the grave?

[21:38] <Perpetua-VHL> I thought there were too sides of Heaven too. Maybe I am confused but I thought we see two judgements.Help me out here.

[21:38] <hope-VHL> 3right, that is where Jesus went for three days when He was crucified, right

[21:38] <light2-VHL> So it does not mean soul sleep

[21:38] <VCI-Bob> Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it. Earth and sky fled from his presence, and there was no place for them.

[21:38] <VCI-Bob> 12 And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books.

[21:38] <VCI-Bob> The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what he had done.

[21:38] <VCI-Bob> 14 Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death.

[21:38] <VCI-Bob> If anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire. (Revelation 20:15 NIV)

[21:39] <hope-VHL> 3I don't believe believers will be Judged

[21:39] <light2-VHL> We will stand before the Bema seat

[21:39] <called_out-VHL464> 10But, the saved go straight to heaven when they die, right?

[21:39] <light2-VHL> Yes called

[21:39] <VCI-Bob> Perpetua, this is speaking of the judgment of unbelievers

[21:39] <light2-VHL> To be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord

[21:40] <called_out-VHL464> 10The wonder of it all, is too much for my small mind.

[21:40] <VCI-Bob> there will be a separate judgment of believers, but not for condemnation

[21:40] <hope-VHL> 3right Bob

[21:40] <Perpetua-VHL> Okay got it

[21:40] <Kathy-VHL> right Bob for rewards

[21:40] <called_out-VHL464> 10We will be like Bob, we will have a crown to place at Jesus' feet.

[21:40] <Perpetua-VHL> Thanks - I am learning

[21:40] <jeff-VHL> lol

[21:40] <skip-VHL> 4jewels in our crowns

[21:40] <called_out-VHL464> 10Puts you on shouting ground.

[21:40] <VCI-Bob> Yes, we will marvel at His glory

[21:40] <littleone-VHL> 2Bob, excusame to interrupt, but where are you?

[21:41] <VCI-Bob> and be ever more amazed at His grace to us

[21:41] <jeff-VHL> I read that we will also have new names

[21:41] <called_out-VHL464> 10I can't wait!!

[21:41] <VCI-Bob> I'm in Tampa, Florida

[21:41] <VCI-Bob> yes, Jeff :)

[21:41] <littleone-VHL> 2Thank you very much:)

[21:41] <VCI-Bob> I won't be VCI-Bob anymore

[21:41] <VCI-Bob> LOL

[21:41] <light2-VHL> Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.

[21:41] <hope-VHL> 3Just to kiss His hands and feet, how awesome it's going to be!

[21:41] <VCI-Bob> Thanks, light :)

[21:41] <light2-VHL> 1 Cor 3:13

[21:41] <VCI-Bob> Amen, Hope!!!!!!

[21:42] <called_out-VHL464> 10good Light ;)

[21:42] <VCI-Bob> That's our Hope!

[21:42] <VCI-Bob> :)

[21:42] <hope-VHL> 3AMEN ;)

[21:42] <Kathy-VHL> The only thing in heaven that will be man made will be the scars in his hands and feet

[21:42] <light2-VHL> Jesus is our righteousness and true hopw

[21:42] <light2-VHL> hope

[21:42] <VCI-Bob> Yes

[21:42] <called_out-VHL464> 10never thought of that Kathy

[21:42] <Kathy-VHL> I think about that all the time keeps me straight lol

[21:43] <called_out-VHL464> 10yes :)

[21:43] <VCI-Bob> "My hope is built on nothing less, than Jesus blood and righteousness"

[21:43] <hope-VHL> 3I'm soooooo thankful for those scars

[21:43] <Kathy-VHL> me too

[21:43] <light2-VHL> Yes we should examine ourselves always to see if we are in the faith

[21:43] <Kathy-VHL> for I am not worthy

[21:43] <hope-VHL> 3they're precious

[21:43] <VCI-Bob> Yes, Praise the name of Jesus!

[21:43] <called_out-VHL464> 10There is none worthy, not one.

[21:43] <Kathy-VHL> I am so /glad He was willing to do what I can't

[21:44] <VCI-Bob> The Holy One of Israel, who stooped down to rescue us at great price to himself

[21:44] <skip-VHL> 4no greater name on earth

[21:44] <Perpetua-VHL> Did anyoune see the new bio-medical advances? Soon we will be injected with sensors that detect when we are getting sick and the sensors will release medicine to prevent the disease. Does the mark of the beast have to be an outward mark?

[21:44] <light2-VHL> All have sinned and come short of the glory of God

[21:44] <VCI-Bob> amen, skip

[21:44] <hope-VHL> 3I get soooo choked up thinking about it!

[21:44] <called_out-VHL464> 10His name is Wonderful

[21:44] <littleone-VHL> 2There is no greater Love that One that gives His live for His Friends

[21:44] <Perpetua-VHL> Sorry to change the subject.

[21:44] <light2-VHL> Perpetua, that is going to be the mark

[21:44] <VCI-Bob> This is what we will be doing in heaven - marveling at the glory of His grace

[21:44] <called_out-VHL464> 10He calls us friend....can you imagine that

[21:44] <littleone-VHL> 2Yeshua, The OMega, The Great I Am

[21:45] <VCI-Bob> That's ok, Perpetua :)

[21:45] <light2-VHL> Don't let any chip be but into you or any one you know

[21:45] <Kathy-VHL> it is hard to imagine

[21:45] <hope-VHL> 3in the right hand or forehead

[21:45] <light2-VHL> Those chips that they want to inject in people ,will control emotions etc

[21:45] <Perpetua-VHL> I don't have children yet is this something they could do without my permission?

[21:45] <VCI-Bob> Perpetua, it seems to me that the "mark" will be a sign of devotion to the AC - we will not receive it accidentally

[21:45] <VCI-Bob> though it will probably be a high tech device

[21:45] <called_out-VHL464> 10The chip, the one world religion, the one world currency...it is all coming together.

[21:46] <skip-VHL> 4they are already putting implants in animals ie:chips

[21:46] <light2-VHL> And that is why you will be lost, only Gods Spirit should control the Christian

[21:46] <hope-VHL> 3I read this week that (one country, I have to look up which one) is going to make it mandatory to have a chip in their pets

[21:46] <VCI-Bob> people will be eager to receive it to acclaim their wonderful (false) "Savior"

[21:46] <VCI-Bob> except for us

[21:46] <light2-VHL> It is something that when given you won't be able to buy , sell or get gain without it

[21:46] <VCI-Bob> right, light

[21:46] <littleone-VHL> 2We shall all stand in the gap with devotion and love for other souls to be save..to hear hte call of Our Lord Jesus

[21:47] <light2-VHL> And that sounds like the electronic signature they won't everyone to have

[21:47] <hope-VHL> 3that's scary!

[21:47] <light2-VHL> They are going to say, we don't know who you are unless you are indentified

[21:47] <skip-VHL> 4it will be like the upc marks on everything already

[21:47] <VCI-Bob> a little, hope, which is why the Lord tells us of the kind of attitude we need to have to remain true to him

[21:47] <light2-VHL> Yep only worse skip

[21:47] <Kathy-VHL> and they call us fanatical now just think what we will be called then

[21:47] <called_out-VHL464> 10They will tell us it is for our own benefit,

[21:47] <light2-VHL> for God promises eternal damnation to anyone who gets it

[21:47] <Bezalel-VHL> Amen, Kathy

[21:48] <littleone-VHL> 2That is why we need to press on and intercede

[21:48] <called_out-VHL464> 10they will have info to help us get well if we are sick, our dna etc.

[21:48] <VCI-Bob> They overcame him by the blood of the Lamb and by the word of their testimony; they did not love their lives so much as to shrink from death. (Revelation 12:11 NIV)

[21:48] <light2-VHL> You will never be save if you get the mark

[21:48] <light2-VHL> death will be only option

[21:48] <VCI-Bob> no fear - fearless, because we have already been given eternal life

[21:48] <Kathy-VHL> I am glad I am old lol

[21:48] <light2-VHL> unless you love your life on this earth

[21:48] <VCI-Bob> who can kill us?

[21:48] <VCI-Bob> LOL Kathy

[21:48] <light2-VHL> more than Christ

[21:49] <light2-VHL> Me too Kathy

[21:49] <littleone-VHL> 2We shall not fear who can kill the body but fear God that can kill the body and the spirit

[21:49] <called_out-VHL464> 10Be not fearful of those who can kill the body

[21:49] <dovecry-VHL> Ok friends, I'm back:-)

[21:49] <VCI-Bob> right :)

[21:49] <skip-VHL> 4amen

[21:49] <Kathy-VHL> but I sure would like to be around to help

[21:49] <hope-VHL> 3AMEN BOB

[21:49] <called_out-VHL464> 10welcome back Dove ;)

[21:49] <VCI-Bob> We will be here to witness to God's great power and holines

[21:49] <VCI-Bob> as these things happen to the world

[21:49] <hope-VHL> 3you MIGHT just be Kathy

[21:49] <dovecry-VHL> I know I missed the good stuff:-(

[21:49] <littleone-VHL> 2Alleluya, Alleluya

[21:50] <Kathy-VHL> yep I might

[21:50] <hope-VHL> 3LOL dove

[21:50] <light2-VHL> You 'll have to read it latter Dove

[21:50] <VCI-Bob> "You are my witnesses," declares the LORD, "and my servant whom I have chosen, so that you may know and believe me and understand that I am he. Before me no god was formed, nor will there be one after me. (Isaiah 43:10 NIV)

[21:50] <Perpetua-VHL> I am a college student and a professor asked everyone in the class how and when they would like to die -the young people were truly frightened of death. It was a great witnessing moment. But I was very surprised to see how many were truly afraid.

[21:50] <hope-VHL> 3I'm sooooo anxious for it!!!!!!!

[21:51] <VCI-Bob> that's great, Perpetua! keep on speaking for the Lord!

[21:51] <VCI-Bob> I, even I, am the LORD, and apart from me there is no savior. (Isaiah 43:11 NIV)

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[21:51] <Kathy-VHL> right Perpetua

[21:51] <VCI-Bob> I have revealed and saved and proclaimed-- I, and not some foreign god among you. You are my witnesses," declares the LORD, "that I am God. (Isaiah 43:12 NIV)

[21:51] <Perpetua-VHL> I'm new ...but I am on fire.

[21:51] <light2-VHL> Precious in the sight of the LORD is the death of his saints.

[21:51] <skip-VHL> 4PTL

[21:51] <Kathy-VHL> thats great P

[21:51] <VCI-Bob> Terrific!!

[21:51] <hope-VHL> 3Keep the fire burning Perpetua!!!!!

[21:51] <dovecry-VHL> what about my question? Is it the Christians who will fall away ? Not all of us , but will some fall away? and why?

[21:51] <light2-VHL> Ps 116:15

[21:52] <Kathy-VHL> We will pray for you P

[21:52] <Perpetua-VHL> Thanks

[21:52] <VCI-Bob> Some will fall away, Dovecry - remember the parable of the sower?

[21:52] <dovecry-VHL> Yes

[21:52] <called_out-VHL464> 10Dove, some will have a love for this world and fall away...

[21:52] <hope-VHL> 3so selfish of us to keep our mouth shut because we're embarrassed!!!!! We have the gift of LIFE to offer!!!!

[21:52] <light2-VHL> For this God is our God for ever and ever: he will be our guide even unto death.

[21:52] <Kathy-VHL> thats right

[21:52] <light2-VHL> Ps 48:14

[21:53] <skip-VHL> 4not everyone who cries L_RD will be saved

[21:53] <dovecry-VHL> So doesn't it blow the theory once saved always saved?

[21:53] <Perpetua-VHL> A thunderstorm is rolling in so if I get cut off don't think me rude.

[21:53] <VCI-Bob> Dove, here is what Jesus said

[21:53] <VCI-Bob> "Brother will betray brother to death, and a father his child; children will rebel against their parents and have them put to death. (Matthew 10:21 NIV)

[21:53] <VCI-Bob> All men will hate you because of me, but he who stands firm to the end will be saved. (Matthew 10:22 NIV)

[21:53] <light2-VHL> Dove the scripture says some are going to fall away

[21:53] <skip-VHL> 4wish it was in drought Texas

[21:53] <hope-VHL> 3Bob, don't you think some will be disillusioned..........like they were taught something from God's word that is not true, and then might feel like they've been had, and fall away

[21:53] <light2-VHL> Because they did not love the truth

[21:53] <VCI-Bob> also...

[21:53] <VCI-Bob> "Then you will be handed over to be persecuted and put to death, and you will be hated by all nations because of me. (Matthew 24:9 NIV)

[21:53] <littleone-VHL> 2Bob, thank you for having me. May the Lord keep you all under His Majestic Wings and embrace you with His eternal Love

[21:53] <VCI-Bob> At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other, (Matthew 24:10 NIV)

[21:54] <littleone-VHL> 2Shaom for now

[21:54] <VCI-Bob> Glad you joined us, klittle

[21:54] <VCI-Bob> and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. (Matthew 24:11 NIV)

[21:54] <Perpetua-VHL> Taught something for His word that isn't true?

[21:54] <littleone-VHL> 2Thank you:)

[21:54] <light2-VHL> You have to love the Lord your God with all your heart soul and mind

[21:54] <VCI-Bob> Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold, (Matthew 24:12 NIV)

[21:54] <Kathy-VHL> I believe that standing firm means to continue to declair that Jesus is the Son of God

[21:54] <VCI-Bob> but he who stands firm to the end will be saved. (Matthew 24:13 NIV)

[21:54] <littleone-VHL> 2I shall be back next Monday, It will be my blessing

[21:54] <light2-VHL> And more than your life on this earth

[21:54] <hope-VHL> 3goodnight little one

[21:54] <Kathy-VHL> that is the only thing that will cause one to loose salvation is to turn from that

[21:54] <skip-VHL> 4shalom littleone

[21:54] <VCI-Bob> Hope, I think that's a good point...

[21:55] <called_out-VHL464> 10got to go,, goodnight all and Blessing to you.

[21:55] <skip-VHL> 4hi jazene

[21:55] <littleone-VHL> 2Goodnight Hope, Skip and all of you I love:)

[21:55] <hope-VHL> 3goodnight called

[21:55] <VCI-Bob> there are so many people, supposed Bible teachers, teaching distortions of the Word...

[21:55] <light2-VHL> God Bless called out

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[21:55] <called_out-VHL464> 10bye all

[21:55] <skip-VHL> 4by called

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[21:55] <light2-VHL> When they deny the One that bought them, beware

[21:55] <VCI-Bob> which cause some people to become disillusioned, or to have their focus on the wrong things

[21:55] <hope-VHL> 3that's right Bob, and by the time the people figure it out it will be wayyyyy too late

[21:56] <dovecry-VHL> Yes, Ok Thank you, I will just keep praying for my friends and family and pray the Lord I stand in His strength too!

[21:56] <light2-VHL> We are only saved by the blood of the Lamb

[21:56] <light2-VHL> Behold the Lamb of God which takes away the sin of the world

[21:56] <VCI-Bob> yes, whenever I read "Christian" message boards on the web i am saddened by how many false teachers there are, of many kinds

[21:56] <light2-VHL> They will not endure sound doctrine

[21:56] <hope-VHL> 3our BLESSED HOPE is to see HIS face, it doesn't matter WHEN

[21:56] <Perpetua-VHL> Praise God because there is no way I could even get out of bed on my own.

[21:56] <Kathy-VHL> it is accepoting or denying Christ that gets us in or keeps us out

[21:56] <VCI-Bob> that's what Jesus said

[21:57] <VCI-Bob> and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. (Matthew 24:11 NIV)

[21:57] <VCI-Bob> Yes, Kathy, but today...

[21:57] <light2-VHL> They are tearing the hoofs off the sheep, so the sheep can't escape danger

[21:57] <VCI-Bob> many redefine "Jesus" to be someone He is not, and preach a gospel that is not the true one

[21:57] <skip-VHL> 4like now so many churches teach that the church has replaced Israel

[21:58] <Perpetua-VHL> YOu know, I always thought a false prophet would be blantanly false.. like the comet chasers in California.

[21:58] <hope-VHL> 3we need to be ready to die for HIM

[21:58] <Kathy-VHL> right

[21:58] <VCI-Bob> not all that speak of "Jesus" and the "gospel' are true Christians

[21:58] <light2-VHL> Satan comes as an angel of light

[21:58] <VCI-Bob> right

[21:58] <hope-VHL> 3that's right BOB

[21:58] <VCI-Bob> which is why, we must KNOW THE BIBLE for ourselves

[21:58] <Kathy-VHL> I was just clairifying that it is not because of sin that we can fall away but because of not standing firm on Who He is

[21:58] <hope-VHL> 3EXACTLY!!!

[21:58] <VCI-Bob> so we won't be persuaded to follow false teachers

[21:58] <skip-VHL> 4amen BOB

[21:59] <VCI-Bob> very very very important

[21:59] <Bezalel-VHL> Amen, Bob

[21:59] <light2-VHL> And we must know the Savior, for he said my sheep know me and hear my voice

[21:59] <hope-VHL> 3AMENNNNNNN BOB

[21:59] <VCI-Bob> because their teachings are very subtle, much of it sounds good

[21:59] <VCI-Bob> right, Light

[21:59] <Kathy-VHL> yes we must know in our Heart and know His voice

[21:59] <hope-VHL> 3amen Light

[21:59] <hope-VHL> 3yeah, kind of like slick willy!!!

[21:59] <Kathy-VHL> yea lol

[21:59] <VCI-Bob> I'm going to take a short break - please proceed, I'll be back

[21:59] <light2-VHL> I don't understand why they don't tell people to flee the false religions that will destroy them

[22:00] <Bezalel-VHL> It wouldn't be politically correct, Light

[22:00] <Kathy-VHL> they dont recognize them as false

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[22:00] <skip-VHL> 4we do but the church deems us fanactics

[22:00] <Kathy-VHL> I was an observer in a Jewish chat room last night just listening to them discuss things

[22:00] <light2-VHL> Well so many think they are "doing good things for God"

[22:00] <Kathy-VHL> Most did not even know what fallen angels were

[22:01] <Kathy-VHL> they did not know who satan was

[22:01] <light2-VHL> And the only thing you can do is come as you are and let him cleanse you

[22:01] <Kathy-VHL> talked about that being a myth

[22:01] <Perpetua-VHL> I think churches need to focus more on Prayer. We can't hope to hear His voice if we are not in prayer Daily.

[22:01] <Kathy-VHL> sooooo sad

[22:02] <light2-VHL> I think the words of Christ , the last words to the church are very significant for today Rev 3:20

[22:02] <skip-VHL> 4they believe in G_D but not satan ,heaven but not hell

[22:02] <Kathy-VHL> I have to go all enjoyed it bye and Blessings to you all

[22:02] <light2-VHL> We must seek Him on our own and fellowship with Him

[22:02] <Perpetua-VHL> The mainstream churches have also gotten away from fasting and prayer

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[22:02] <jeff-VHL> by kathy

[22:02] <Bezalel-VHL> Bye Kathy

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[22:02] <light2-VHL> Bye Kathy, God Bless

[22:02] <Perpetua-VHL> Bye -thanks for the Prayers Kathy

[22:03] <Bezalel-VHL> Perpetua, the mainstream churches are allow homosexual marriages, adultery, and many other sins as compromise to lazy followers

[22:03] <light2-VHL> I know skip that is true, I bet satan loves them to think he is not real

[22:03] <skip-VHL> 4bed time for this old lady too

[22:04] <light2-VHL> Thats why I think we have to come out from among them and be separate

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[22:04] <light2-VHL> If they don't teach the truth depart from them

[22:04] <skip-VHL> 4G_D BLESS YOU ALL SHALOM

[22:04] <Bezalel-VHL> Night skip, I forget that most are on the East Coast:-)

[22:04] <light2-VHL> Night BEz

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[22:05] <Bezalel-VHL> This has been a really great room tonight, Praise the Lord!

[22:05] <skip-VHL> 4see you monday, G_D willing :-)

[22:05] <dovecry-VHL> WoW! what happened?

[22:05] <light2-VHL> Bless His Holy Name forever

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[22:05] <Perpetua-VHL> But light aren't we called to be in churches? (Heb 10:24-25)

[22:06] <light2-VHL> Well not when they become evil

[22:06] <dovecry-VHL> Love you skip

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[22:06] <Perpetua-VHL> So did you find another church to be a member of?

[22:06] <light2-VHL> You'll have to search for a good fellowship somewhere

[22:07] <dovecry-VHL> Bob are you there?

[22:07] <light2-VHL> I attend a non denom at the present,

[22:12] <VCI-Bob> I'm back :)

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[22:15] <light2-VHL> Hello to Den

[22:15] <Bezalel-VHL> Night, Dove

[22:15] <dovecry-VHL> Love you Bob, Thanks for working VHL chat:-)

[22:15] <light2-VHL> God Bless Dove

[22:16] <VCI-Bob> My pleasure, Dove :)

[22:16] <dovecry-VHL> Keep me in prayer ok?

[22:16] <VCI-Bob> Yes :)

[22:16] <light2-VHL> will do

[22:16] <Bezalel-VHL> You got it Dove

[22:16] <dovecry-VHL> God will heal me:-) I know!Bye now

[22:16] <VCI-Bob> He will never leave you or forsake you :)

[22:16] <VCI-Bob> His promise :)

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[22:17] <hope-VHL> 3Praise God!

[22:17] <hope-VHL> 3tooooo quiet

[22:17] <VCI-Bob> ok, we have a smaller room now, we can perhaps get into things more in depth

[22:18] <hope-VHL> 3ok

[22:18] <jeff-VHL> How old is Arafat?

[22:18] <light2-VHL> Bob I heard some preacher say that Rome could not be the one mentioned in Rev, because it is not built on 7 hills

[22:18] <VCI-Bob> seems like he is around 70 or so, Jeff

[22:18] <Bezalel-VHL> Bob, have you seen anything by Rick Joyner, and Morningstar Ministries? Just curious, since my brother-in-law (who I have utmost respect for) has pointed me to him.

[22:18] <VCI-Bob> I don't know, Light

[22:18] <VCI-Bob> Bez, I don't like his teachings AT ALL

[22:18] <light2-VHL> But I studied yesterday and found out that it is famous for being built on 7 hills

[22:19] <hope-VHL> 3I thought Rome was KNOWN for the 7 hills

[22:19] <VCI-Bob> yes, I had heard that also light

[22:19] <Bezalel-VHL> Interesting.

[22:19] <light2-VHL> Also I found all the hills and in early times everyone had a temple to a false God

[22:19] <VCI-Bob> Joyner has written a book of supposed "prophecy from the Lord"

[22:19] <light2-VHL> So Babylon is trully Rome

[22:19] <VCI-Bob> I read it, and it didn't sit well with me at all

[22:20] <light2-VHL> Who is Joyner?

[22:20] <VCI-Bob> I would avoid him

[22:20] <hope-VHL> 3I think the religion part of it

[22:20] <light2-VHL> Where does he teach at

[22:20] <Bezalel-VHL> I haven't seen that one....I'll look elsewhere.

[22:20] <VCI-Bob> If you email me, I will send you websites examining his teachings

[22:22] <VCI-Bob> Light, it's interesting..

[22:22] <VCI-Bob> when you read Daniel, about the four kingdoms...

[22:22] <hope-VHL> 3when nobody talks I feel like I'm zapped out of here

[22:22] <hope-VHL> 3whew!

[22:22] <VCI-Bob> the fourth being Rome...

[22:23] <VCI-Bob> that in discussing that kingdom, it seems to "blend in" with the final kingdom of man, led by antichrist

[22:23] <VCI-Bob> in the prophecies

[22:23] <EZGuest790> Russia is one we have to keep our eyes on too

[22:23] <light2-VHL> Well I was suprised when I was searching the Vatican site, to find so many letters to the Ambassadors of Countries

[22:23] <Den-VHL> Iron mixed with clay

[22:23] <VCI-Bob> which is why some look for a rejuvenation of some kind of European Union

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[22:24] <light2-VHL> Rome is regaining its ugly strenght in the world

[22:24] <VCI-Bob> Yes, Light, the Vatican is a very political organization

[22:24] <VCI-Bob> Right, EZ

[22:24] <jeff-VHL> Russia and China are mad at the U.S.

[22:24] <VCI-Bob> Yes, Den

[22:24] <Den-VHL> "Rome" may be more a symbol of the type of kingdom, than the actual place.

[22:24] <VCI-Bob> I'm still trying to piece it all together, myself :)

[22:25] <VCI-Bob> was reading from Daniel this week

[22:25] <VCI-Bob> yes, Den, could be

[22:25] <light2-VHL> In order to make any deals with the pope, you have to be an apostate, cause he calls on Mary for deliverance

[22:25] <Den-VHL> I believe it is more likely a European union

[22:25] <light2-VHL> It is a world Government with a spiritual head

[22:26] <light2-VHL> And what better that the Vatican, since it is already set up for it

[22:26] <light2-VHL> And the EU is already getting its decrees from Rome

[22:26] <light2-VHL> I read the letters

[22:27] <jeff-VHL> This is exciting knowing what is going to happen

[22:27] <VCI-Bob> I don't think we can make definitive statements one way or another yet about how it will all happen, about specific nations or groups

[22:27] <EZGuest790> if they get that one world order Rome will be the head and we will be done for

[22:27] <Den-VHL> May I disagree with the thought that the Vatican must be Rome-it is an old theory, with no proof yet

[22:27] <light2-VHL> The pope also wrote a letter on the globalization of the world

[22:27] <hope-VHL> 3I listened to the audio tapes of Marvin Rosenthal on the book of Daniel....he goes verse by verse through the whole book......GREAT!!!

[22:27] <VCI-Bob> Sure, you may disagree :)

[22:27] <light2-VHL> Have you read the Two Babylons " Den?

[22:27] <VCI-Bob> sounds good, hope

[22:27] <hope-VHL> 3right Bob

[22:28] <VCI-Bob> I think we will all agree....

[22:28] <Den-VHL> Light2-No, who wrote it

[22:28] <light2-VHL> Rev. Alexander Hislop

[22:28] <jeff-VHL> Bob, so after Isreal gets all that land after the war. It will then build the temple right?

[22:28] <VCI-Bob> that the end time "Babylon" will consist of religious, political, and commercial systems that have departed from the Lord, and are unified against His rule

[22:28] <hope-VHL> 3I really like tapes, because you can stop and read the scripture and take notes

[22:28] <VCI-Bob> Yes, Jeff, apparently so

[22:29] <VCI-Bob> of course, that means extreme changes in the political climate there, Jeff

[22:29] <jeff-VHL> What do you mean?

[22:29] <VCI-Bob> because the Arabs would never stand for that now

[22:29] <jeff-VHL> oh

[22:29] <VCI-Bob> it means, that after the war, they will not be as much of a factor, I would suppose

[22:30] <jeff-VHL> yes

[22:30] <hope-VHL> 3right

[22:30] <light2-VHL> I keep thinking that there may not have to be a temple built if Israel keeps on insisting to make Jerusalem a place for all nations to worship

[22:30] <Den-VHL> That puts it back to a European union, Bob?

[22:30] <light2-VHL> They can just use one of Romes temples

[22:31] <jeff-VHL> After they build the temple then they will start to worship a false GOD?

[22:31] <VCI-Bob> Den, yes, this is all conjecture....

[22:31] <VCI-Bob> but I'm thinking that after the war with Syria, the Palestinians, and Lebanon...

[22:31] <light2-VHL> The false world religion is being set up now

[22:31] <VCI-Bob> when Israel gets total control of the Temple mount...

[22:31] <light2-VHL> By the Un and the Vatican

[22:31] <hope-VHL> 3but Bob, don't you think if Israel gives the eastern side to the arabs (not that I believe they should), that then the arabs would agree to the building of the temple?

[22:31] <VCI-Bob> and severe criticism of the nations....

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[22:32] <hope-VHL> 3that is under a false peace

[22:32] <VCI-Bob> that the EU (and ultimately the antichrist) will step in to offer "peace" to Israel, which will include the rebuilding of the Temple

[22:32] <Gran-VHL> 5:)Hi Im back

[22:32] <VCI-Bob> No, hope, they will NEVER agree to that

[22:33] <Gran-VHL> 5My son got me off of Compu serve

[22:33] <hope-VHL> 3did you get zapped too

[22:33] <hope-VHL> 3Yeah, just throwing things out

[22:33] <Den-VHL> Yes, and that is when the Anti_Christ signs the peace treating stating that 7 year period found in Revelation

[22:33] <Gran-VHL> 5no My son came home and was getting me off of cs

[22:33] <light2-VHL> What about the Church of the holy Seplucher?

[22:33] <VCI-Bob> yes, perhaps, Den - makes sense to me

[22:33] <light2-VHL> That seems like a good place to start

[22:34] <jeff-VHL> The rapture will occur around the rebuilding of the Temple?

[22:34] <Gran-VHL> 5Bob isn;'t that what Arafat wants along with the temple mount

[22:34] <light2-VHL> check out this site and see what I mean

[22:34] <light2-VHL> http://info.jpost.com/2000/Supplements/Millennium/

[22:34] <VCI-Bob> jeff, in the pre-trib position, that is a possible scenario, yes, or shortly before

[22:34] <VCI-Bob> what, Gran?

[22:35] <VCI-Bob> thanks, Light :)

[22:35] <Den-VHL> I have always wondered how we would know the peace treaty involved, there are so many going on.

[22:35] <Gran-VHL> 5the church of the holy seplulcher

[22:35] <VCI-Bob> Den, I think we will recognize it, if we are alert to the Lord

[22:35] <Gran-VHL> 5I read something about what he wants and I believe that was one along with the temple mount

[22:35] <hope-VHL> 3the peace treaty that is going on now, is the same one that was started back in 1993 by Rabin and Arafat

[22:36] <VCI-Bob> He wants it ALL, Gran :)

[22:36] <light2-VHL> Oh Rome has already defiled the Holy Land and made it like Sodom

[22:36] <Gran-VHL> 5yeah so called peace

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[22:36] <VCI-Bob> yes, hope, but that was not really a "treaty" in 1993

[22:36] <Gran-VHL> 5yes Bob I know that but those were two things mentioned

[22:36] <VCI-Bob> more like an agreement of principals and steps to pursue

[22:36] <hope-VHL> 3it was something for so called "peace" right?

[22:36] <VCI-Bob> Welcome, Aquaman :)

[22:37] <Gran-VHL> 5I may have read that in BRidges of Peace the other day

[22:37] <aquaman-VHL> hello Bob

[22:37] <VCI-Bob> yes, but the Palestinians, as you may see, have not committed to "peace" at all

[22:37] <Gran-VHL> 5aqua shalom

[22:37] <VCI-Bob> in fact, it's just a tactic for them - to get what they want

[22:37] <jeff-VHL> The Palestinians are ready for war

[22:37] <aquaman-VHL> shalom Gran

[22:38] <jeff-VHL> They are training children to fight

[22:38] <VCI-Bob> "peace" is a means to an end for them, nothing more, if that doesn't work, they are prepared for violence - they have stated as much all along, even this week

[22:38] <light2-VHL> I read today where they are training the young girls to use guns in case Israel whats any land back

[22:38] <hope-VHL> 3oh, yeah, that's a joke........their so called peace is my way or no way! But don't you think Barak is stuck in a corner right now? Doomed if he does, doomed if he doesn't

[22:38] <VCI-Bob> He would not be "doomed" if he would turn to the God of Israel and seek Him

[22:39] <hope-VHL> 3(well , WE know Israel will win)

[22:39] <light2-VHL> Just the right time for the Anti Christ to step in with his solution to peace

[22:39] <jeff-VHL> How long does it usually take to settle on a peace treaty?

[22:39] <VCI-Bob> no, GOD will win :)

[22:39] <Gran-VHL> 5Bob and all I need to leave for the night this time. I just wanted you to know why I left in such a hurry before

[22:39] <hope-VHL> 3AMEN

[22:39] <hope-VHL> 3I meant in the war LOL

[22:39] <VCI-Bob> Gran, as always, your presence is a great pleasure :)

[22:39] <VCI-Bob> May the Lord bless you greatly :)

[22:39] <Gran-VHL> 5My son came home to work on my puter so hopefully VHL is now my home page

[22:39] <light2-VHL> Night Gran God Bless

[22:40] <Gran-VHL> 5He got me off CS so no more bills see you all Light dear did you get my email the other day

[22:40] <hope-VHL> 3Goodnight Gran

[22:40] <light2-VHL> Gran send it to me again

[22:40] <jeff-VHL> goodnight gran

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[22:40] <Gran-VHL> 5I will send you another one with new email address

[22:40] <jeff-VHL> i will be praying for you

[22:41] <Gran-VHL> 5God bless you all see you on Mon

[22:41] <Bezalel-VHL> Night, Gran

[22:41] <light2-VHL> Ok thanks and God Bless

[22:41] <Gran-VHL> 5thanks Jeff

[22:41] <VCI-Bob> I think, that we should all read Isaiah 24-26 for next time

[22:41] <VCI-Bob> I will post that on the forum as our "assignment" :)

[22:41] <light2-VHL> I am going to head out to , God bless you all and keep looking to our Savior

[22:41] <hope-VHL> 3our homework

[22:41] <jeff-VHL> bye everyone I will be praying for you

[22:41] <Gran-VHL> 5Bez all of you I want you to know how much these rooms mean to me great love here bye for now

[22:41] <EZGuest790> right on Bob

[22:41] <hope-VHL> 3LOL

[22:41] <Bezalel-VHL> :-)

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[22:41] <VCI-Bob> :)

[22:42] <Gran-VHL> 5`very good Bob see you

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[22:42] <hope-VHL> 3I will read it for next time! Unfortunately I have to depart too!!! Keep the fire burning for HIM!!! and may He come quickly! ;)

[22:42] <Bezalel-VHL> Delta has us reading books about the Holocaust, and you've got us reading Isaiah......this is a tough school:-)

[22:42] <hope-VHL> 3LOL

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[22:43] <VCI-Bob> Yeah, Bez :)

[22:43] <VCI-Bob> we're gonna keep ya busy :)

[22:43] <VCI-Bob> hey, it's only 3 chapters :)

[22:43] <VCI-Bob> I'm easier on ya :)

[22:43] <Bezalel-VHL> But, a passing grade is worth the effort;-)

[22:43] <hope-VHL> 3FOOD for the SOUL!!!!

[22:43] <VCI-Bob> yeah, soul food :)

[22:44] <hope-VHL> 3LOL, ;) goodnight, and God Bless you!

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[22:44] <VCI-Bob> Night Hope!

[22:44] <VCI-Bob> Well, looks like we are winding down here :)

[22:44] <Den-VHL> My understanding of the war is not that God saves Israel at the beginning. In fact, Israel may be overrun at first.

[22:44] <Den-VHL> I was saving that

[22:45] <VCI-Bob> Yes, Den, though we may be speaking of different wars....

[22:45] <Bezalel-VHL> I smell dinner ready, so I'll leave also. Thanks to all for the boost.

[22:45] <VCI-Bob> it's my opinion, that they upcoming war is not the final one

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[22:45] <VCI-Bob> See ya Bez!!!

[22:45] <Den-VHL> Bez, have a good night

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[22:45] <Den-VHL> Unfortunately, I keep going back to Revelation

[22:46] <VCI-Bob> But yes, though some may disagree, I do see in the prophecies where Israel may have to flee

[22:46] <Den-VHL> The move of the Anti-Christ down thru Israel and Egypt

[22:46] <VCI-Bob> at the beginning of the final 3 1/2 years

[22:46] <VCI-Bob> right, Den, it says that in Daniel 11

[22:46] <Den-VHL> Exactly

[22:47] <VCI-Bob> but, like I said, I'm still trying to piece it all together :)

[22:47] <Den-VHL> So, it is then SOOO important that the leaders in Israel understand that alliances are not the answer

[22:47] <Den-VHL> There are enough examples in the OT

[22:48] <VCI-Bob> right, only a return to the God of Abraham, and His Anointed One (Messiah Jesus) is the ultimate answer

[22:48] <VCI-Bob> and they will - that much we know

[22:48] <VCI-Bob> eventually

[22:48] <Den-VHL> Yet, if that is a true interpretation, then what should Israel be preparing for?

[22:48] <VCI-Bob> what do you mean?

[22:49] <Den-VHL> If war is to come in the short run, before Our Savior returns, what should Israel's leaders be telling the people

[22:49] <Den-VHL> Trade land for peace, because it does not make a difference?

[22:50] <VCI-Bob> that's a complex question - what they "should" be telling the people is to return to the Shepherd they have struck.....

[22:50] <VCI-Bob> but in the meantime...

[22:50] <Den-VHL> never trade land for peace, because war is inevitable?

[22:50] <VCI-Bob> no, I would say...

[22:50] <VCI-Bob> that even though they do not yet know Him, if they would trust in HIm to keep the land, He would fulfill His promise to them

[22:51] <VCI-Bob> on the human side, yes, I would agree

[22:51] <VCI-Bob> they are only weakening themselves

[22:51] <VCI-Bob> against people who are not their friends, not people of peace, but want to eliminate them

[22:51] <Den-VHL> But the Israelis seem too desparate for peace to trust in something they largely reject

[22:51] <VCI-Bob> they are being very naice

[22:51] <VCI-Bob> naive

[22:52] <VCI-Bob> yes, that is the right word - desperate - that is why they are going as far as talk of giving up the Temple Mount

[22:52] <VCI-Bob> but how do you think the Lord feels about THAT?

[22:52] <Den-VHL> Can the Christian understanding of the situation be brought to them?

[22:52] <VCI-Bob> His special place, and they are ready to give it away???

[22:53] <VCI-Bob> I think it is, Den, by some groups

[22:53] <Den-VHL> That has yet to sink in with me. Giving away the Temple Mount, is that the place where Abraham offered Issac also?

[22:53] <VCI-Bob> yes, Mount Moriah

[22:54] <VCI-Bob> I need to get going, Den - I hope you join us again for these weekly chats :)

[22:54] <Den-VHL> You, and this chat, are a blessing. Shalom

[22:54] <VCI-Bob> Shalom :)

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